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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: gw0mow on Tuesday 09 January 18 23:43 GMT (UK)
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please can someone tell me which regiment this soldier is wearing ? its one of 3 pics one says idris davies abertaff villas abercynon ,the other written to pte i davies 037063 332nd coy 38th div asc etc , i found army service records for idris, rasc driver and batman , from abercynon a brother to my wifes grandfather , if someone can confirm uniform we will be very grateful, it came in a box of old pics many possibly family but most with nil on back pity yours john
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Cap badge is nice and clear.
Wel(s)ch Regiment:
http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/british_regiment/welsh_welch_regiment.htm
Word on shoulder badge appears to start with a G or C followed by a U or O .... :-\
Added: It wouldn't be Glamorgan would it? :-\ It should show a T on top of a Y in the middle of the curve of the letters - In the photo I can see a Y but no cross bar for a T. It looks more like an I atop a Y .... :-\
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Cap badge is nice and clear.
Wel(s)ch Regiment:
http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/british_regiment/welsh_welch_regiment.htm
Word on shoulder badge appears to start with a G or C followed by a U or O .... :-\
Added: It wouldn't be Glamorgan would it? :-\ It should show a T on top of a Y in the middle of the curve of the letters - In the photo I can see a Y but no cross bar for a T. It looks more like an I atop a Y .... :-\
dear ruskie looking at medal rolls for idris davies it says regiment number w/t4/037063 also his service records survived ,i have those , but sometimes you need experience to glewan extra information from them john not sure if the w/t4 first bit will help
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Are you trying to match up the photographs with army records, so you can work out who is who?
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Are you trying to match up the photographs with army records, so you can work out who is who?
hi Ruskie, thanks for helping yes i am trying to link the photo to idris davies , i know his army info including home address etc and his regiment and rank etc just wanting someone to confirm the person in my pic is wearing the uniform of someone in r a s c , and as mentioned he was a batman and driver hope this helps john
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The W/T4/037063 denotes
W - enlistment (in late 1914) into what began as the Welsh Army Corps, later the 38th Welsh Division
T4 - Army Service Corps Horse Transport
so employment as a [horse] driver cross checks and could well have been employed as a batman also.
The medal records for the W/T4 Idris Davies have no mention of service with the Welsh Regiment. I haven't been able to find his attestation paper which would show that.
MaxD
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Potential spanner in the works.
I can't get a very good look at the buttons, but they look rather like a lion & unicorn type. They don't look like ASC or Welch Regiment.
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How about this?
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Is it the Glamorgan Imperial Yeomanry?
That may well be a "I" and a "Y" over the word "Glamorgan" on the shoulder title.
Frank. ;)
http://www.pccoinsandcollectables.co.uk/images/Glamorgan%2019MAY12%20%20%20L136B%20OBV_600x450.JPG
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I'd support Frank's Glamorgan Imperial Yeomanry, the scroll is in three parts rather than one as with the Lancers. GS buttons were worn by most so I don't think they help in this case and my understanding is that the spelling Welch was not used until the 1920s and this looks earlier.
It would also help explain the bandolier which is more cavalry related than infantry (although infantrymen with mounted duties wore a bandolier).
Whatever, the man pictured is not in the uniform of the ASC (doesn't preclude earlier service in the Yeomanry of course).
MaxD
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GS buttons were worn by most so I don't think they help in this case
I had assumed that regimental buttons would be worn, but ordering factories in WW1 to produce millions of GS buttons rather than smaller batches of hundreds of different types of regimental buttons makes economic sense. MaxD - you have (again) taught me something new - thank you!
In that case the Glamorgan Imperial Yeomanry definitely gets my vote.
(ADDED - I can't see a Glamorgan Imperial Yeomanry shoulder badge on g00gle, but ther Glamorgan T-Y shoulder badge is consistent)
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Good afternoon,
GS buttons were not just a wartime economy drive. All regts were made to have them in the late 1800s to standardise uniforms. Collar badges were brought in to compensate for the loss of regt'l buttons. Since ww1 many regt's have been allowed dispensation to revert to regt'l buttons.
Frank is right on with Glamorgan Imperial Yeomanry.
John915
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from gw0mow john thank everyone for your help and expertise ,I had been hoping to say to the wife ,this was your uncle idris in his rasc uniform , not so straightforward hi, I was looking on ances*** .com at his short service attestation papers basicly idris davies his address in abecynon his age a bit out, 21 yrs and 2 months on 7 dec 1914 says joined at porthcawl asc welsh army corps driver ,,expeditionary force thru 1916+lastly transferred to class z -20-19 employment whilst in army batman , I have letters here and census /electoral rolls linking him to abertaff villa abercynon , thanks again everyone
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Hi, he's the man on your other post, "Driver" means he led a team of horses.
Regards
Frank.
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The Absent Voters List for 2 Abertaf Villas, Abercynon has:
John William Davies Pte 25706 Welsh Regt
Idris Davies ASC (nil number shown)
I can't see any papers for JWD. He has a Silver War Badge which shows enlisted 11 1 1915, discharged 23 12 1918. There are papers for 25704 Blackler which show he enlisted into Welsh Regt on 12 1 1915. I mention this to cover any possibility that JWD might have transferred in from Glam Yeo. It looks like he didn't so he is not the one with those shoulder tabs, unless of course it's a pre war photo.
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The Absent Voters List for 2 Abertaf Villas, Abercynon has:
John William Davies Pte 25706 Welsh Regt
Idris Davies ASC (nil number shown)
I can't see any papers for JWD. He has a Silver War Badge which shows enlisted 11 1 1915, discharged 23 12 1918. There are papers for 25704 Blackler which show he enlisted into Welsh Regt on 12 1 1915. I mention this to cover any possibility that JWD might have transferred in from Glam Yeo. It looks like he didn't so he is not the one with those shoulder tabs, unless of course it's a pre war photo.
dear Gwil, thanks for the info, we knew idris was in army from online info ,and family stories however ,we did not realize john willie was also in army , we assumed he was working in the coal mines , as we think of the other 2 brothers cyril and david all then in abercynon all the best john
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It's for the Glamorgan Yeomanry. The imperial was dropped in 1908.
The 3 segmented scroll is very distinctive and very different from the shape of a Welsh Regt scroll.
As an aside the 12th lancers badge suggested ceased to be worn in 1903.
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Hi alan o :) just out of interest what do you make of the shoulder title? do you see it as a letter "I" above a "Y"?
Would the shoulder title (if as I think, is a I above a Y) still be worn after the name change? just interested to know.
Regards always
Frank :)
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It should be a T (Territorial) over a Y (Yeomanry). When the Yeomanry expanded in WW1 an unofficial practice was to modify the T to a 1 to represent 1st Glamorgan Yeomanry.
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Pre 1908 the Glam Imp Yeo wore 'GIY' as a shoulder title. The 3 tier version was post 1908.
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It should be a T (Territorial) over a Y (Yeomanry). When the Yeomanry expanded in WW1 an unofficial practice was to modify the T to a 1 to represent 1st Glamorgan Yeomanry.
Hi alan o, do you think this could have been the case here, just having a look at the shoulder title.
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I had a discussion in another place (as they say in parliament) about the apparent "I" or "1" above a "Y" above the curved "Glamorgan" and omitted (ie forgot) to bring the consensus here, mea culpa.
Alan o's post about an unofficial "doctored" T is indeed the explanation. Source is given as the definitive Westlake book on shoulder titles which does not have an official I(1) Y Glamorgan combination.
MaxD
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I had a discussion in another place (as they say in parliament) about the apparent "I" or "1" above a "Y" above the curved "Glamorgan" and omitted (ie forgot) to bring the consensus here, mea culpa.
Alan o's post about an unofficial "doctored" T is indeed the explanation. Source is given as the definitive Westlake book on shoulder titles which does not have an official I(1) Y Glamorgan combination.
MaxD
Sorted then ;) I have to admit, the I/1 above the "T" had been bugging me :)
Frank.
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completed please accept my thanks for all that replied and for the information re john william davies i had missed him thank you all john
please can someone tell me which regiment this soldier is wearing ? its one of 3 pics one says idris davies abertaff villas abercynon ,the other written to pte i davies 037063 332nd coy 38th div asc etc , i found army service records for idris, rasc driver and batman , from abercynon a brother to my wifes grandfather , if someone can confirm uniform we will be very grateful, it came in a box of old pics many possibly family but most with nil on back pity yours john
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100% Glamorgan Yeo, Yes 1/Y/ GLAMORGAN was used (unofficial) by the 1st line battalion. I have a data base of around 2000 men who served in the Glamorgan yeomanry 1901-1918, unfortunately I can't match Cyril or John William but there are a couple of Davids, the only 1st line man with no middle name is 905 L/Cpl David Davies later 320538 24th Welsh Regiment who served in Egypt (Palestine) then France. The only thing is he would only have been 16 on enlistment as 905 enlisted in Feb 1909, sorry I can't be of anymore help Mike
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100% Glamorgan Yeo, Yes 1/Y/ GLAMORGAN was used (unofficial) by the 1st line battalion. I have a data base of around 2000 men who served in the Glamorgan yeomanry 1901-1918, unfortunately I can't match Cyril or John William but there are a couple of Davids, the only 1st line man with no middle name is 905 L/Cpl David Davies later 320538 24th Welsh Regiment who served in Egypt (Palestine) then France. The only thing is he would only have been 16 on enlistment as 905 enlisted in Feb 1909, sorry I can't be of anymore help Mike
a final thanks for the last reply , i appreciate the time you all spent helping me bye everyone john