RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: westcoastie on Thursday 11 January 18 22:25 GMT (UK)
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Hello!
I have had some trouble determining who my ancestor, David Graham's, parents are.
This is what I know about him: born 1791 in Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland and died 3 March 1865, in Cadder, Lanarkshire, Scotland. He married a Janet. I don't know for sure her maiden name, it could have been Graham also or Bowman (another thing I am interested in confirming).
Anyway, some people seem to believe David's father was a John Graham born 1765 in Scotland, died 14 May 1811 in Horry, South Carolina and mother possibly a Margaret Daron. However, I have seen nothing to prove this and would love to know if it's true or not. I found it unlikely because David was born and died in Scotland, and I see nothing to show that he ever was in America like them but I guess you never know what happened in the time between. Also, when I looked at John's will I didn't see a David but I think John might have been with another woman at the time? Maybe, if David stayed in Scotland, they cut him out of the will?
I would be REALLY grateful is someone was able to clear up this mystery!
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Have you found his death certificate for 1865?
It should name his parents if the informant knew who they were.
These records are available at www.scotlandspeople.com
Have you researched Scottish records before?
Dorrie
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The 1851 census shows David & Janet were both b Cadder. Janet was b 1794
They have a son David aged 32 so the likeliest marriage on SP is 7.8.1813 in Cadder to Janet Graham
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SP shows a birth reg in Cadder 5.12.1818 for David Graham - parents David Graham and Janet Graham
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CaroleW you just beat me to it.
Also, the 1851 Census says that he was a farmer of 84 acres employing 1 man.
Dorrie
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Thanks Dorrie & CaroleW!
Good to know about Scotland's People. Might make an account.
Actually, I don't see that I have found his death cert. If I did, I didn't find his parents. :-\
Interesting that they were both born in Cadder.
I used another website that didn't show a pic of the actual document so I didn't see the 84 acres part. Cool!
You both found the right people. David born 1791 and Janet born 1794 had a son, David born 1818 who married another Janet - Janet Russell. A little confusing!
So it's probably safe to assume that David Sr.'s wife's maiden name was Graham?
Thanks for looking it up!
It seems like maybe I'll never know for certain who David Sr.'s parents are - they are proving really difficult to find.
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You gave his full date of death in your opening post so you can look for his death on SP. Their free index is showing 2 deaths in Cadder (Eastern & Western) in 1865 for David Graham but he was living in Cadder Eastern RD in 1861 so I think you should look at that one first
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Good advice from CaroleW.
Scotlands People is easy to use. You register with your email address and a password and buy blocks of credits e.g. 30 costs £7.50 and 40 costs £10.00. Each entry costs you 6 credits to view or £1.50. You can then download them. It is the only place to see the actual entries for Scottish Records and not transcriptions.
You can use the above to see birth records over 100 years old, marriages over 75 years and deaths over 50 years. They also have Census Records, Wills etc. If you go to the website it will explain everything.
The good thing is that there is no subscription which can be very costly.
Hope this helps.
Dorrie
P.S. Official registration in Scotland only became compulsory in 1855 and prior to that you have to look at Parish Records. Not all Births, marriages and deaths were registered or survive unfortunately. Also, they sometimes do not contain allthe information you are looking for.
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I have had some trouble determining who my ancestor, David Graham's, parents are.
This is what I know about him: born 1791 in Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland and died 3 March 1865, in Cadder, Lanarkshire, Scotland. He married a Janet. I don't know for sure her maiden name, it could have been Graham also or Bowman (another thing I am interested in confirming).
Anyway, some people seem to believe David's father was a John Graham born 1765 in Scotland, died 14 May 1811 in Horry, South Carolina and mother possibly a Margaret Daron. However, I have seen nothing to prove this and would love to know if it's true or not. I found it unlikely because David was born and died in Scotland, and I see nothing to show that he ever was in America like them but I guess you never know what happened in the time between. Also, when I looked at John's will I didn't see a David but I think John might have been with another woman at the time? Maybe, if David stayed in Scotland, they cut him out of the will?
You are right to be sceptical. Sad to say, the probability is that someone has come across someone born at about the right time and wrongly assumed that he is the right person. The evidence you have speaks against this. Never trust anything you find in an online family tree!
David Graham and Janet Graham seem to have had two recorded children, both baptised in Cadder, Lanarkshire: Elizabeth, 1816 and David, 1818. The 1851 census lists David Graham, 60; Janet Graham, 57; and David Graham, 32 in Auchengree, Chryston, parish of Cadder. All born in Cadder, by the way, not in Glasgow. (Note that the census never gives a year of birth; it tells you how old the person said they were on census day. If Janet's age is accurate, she was born between 1 April 1793 and 30 March 1794, in other words, she is more likely to have been born in 1793 than in 1794 as suggested above). You can see a transcription of the census at https://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl and the original at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk.
The 1841 census lists at Auchingreea, Cadder, David Graham, 55; Janet Graham 50; Janet Graham, 25; David Graham, 20; and Margret Graham, 15. Also, separate from the family, Elizabeth Graham, 40. So it may be that David and Janet had other, unrecorded, children, and that Elizabeth aged 40 could have been a sister or sister-in-law of either David or Janet. Bear in mind that adults' ages in 1841 were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years, so they could all have been up to 4 years older than the ages listed in the census.
The Scotland's People index lists a death of Janet Graham, mother's maiden surname Bowman, in Cadder in 1857, and you have already been told about David's death certificate. (If Janet was 66 in 1857, this puts her birth date as some time in 1790 or 1791; therefore either her age in the census, or her age on her death certificate, is inaccurate.) A Janet Graham, daughter of William Graham and a Bowman, was baptised in Cadder on 30 November 1790, who could be your Janet Graham, and would answer your question about the Bowman surname.
Their death certificates will tell you the full names of both their parents including their mothers' maiden surnames.
There's a death of a John Bowman, aged 70, in Glasgow High Church in 1866. I would take a look at that death too, to see if he was a brother of Janet Graham. You never know. The death certificate will also tell you the name of his wife, if he was married, so you can look for his family too, if he is related.
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The 1841 census lists at Auchingreea, Cadder, David Graham, 55; Janet Graham 50; Janet Graham, 25; David Graham, 20; and Margret Graham, 15. Also, separate from the family, Elizabeth Graham, 40. So it may be that David and Janet had other, unrecorded, children, and that Elizabeth aged 40 could have been a sister or sister-in-law of either David or Janet. Bear in mind that adults' ages in 1841 were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years, so they could all have been up to 4 years older than the ages listed in the census.
I find this interesting. Auchingree is the name of their farm in Cadder. Technically, David Sr. should be 50, wife Janet 51 (if 1790 is indeed her birthdate), David Jr. 23, and then their daughter, Elizabeth 25 although she probably had left home but if it was common for ages to be that off, as you say, I believe that is them! I think I may have seen this before and been confused as to the ages so it's good to know.
Great! I think it's safe to say her maiden name was Graham then. I wonder if her father, William Graham had any ties to her husbands family??
Thanks for your assistance!
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Great! I think it's safe to say her maiden name was Graham then.
No need to speculate. Her death certificate will tell you definitively.
I wonder if her father, William Graham had any ties to her husbands family??
Quite possibly, but it's going to be very difficult to prove.
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I find this interesting. Auchingree is the name of their farm in Cadder. Technically, David Sr. should be 50, wife Janet 51 (if 1790 is indeed her birthdate), David Jr. 23, and then their daughter, Elizabeth 25 although she probably had left home but if it was common for ages to be that off, as you say, I believe that is them! I think I may have seen this before and been confused as to the ages so it's good to know.
If Janet was the one baptised on 11 November 1790, she would not have had her 51st birthday by census day 1841, which was 7 June, so she would have been 50, not 51.
Elizabeth was baptised on 3 March 1816, so she would have had her birthday in 1841, and would have been 25. David was born on 5 December 1818 so would not have had his 23rd birthday by census day in 1841.
Have you looked at those death certificates? Who were David's parents?
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David Graham was 77 when he died as a widower, his parents were John/Margaret Graham. Informant was David Graham (son).
The 1865 Valuations show a John Bowman Graham as the proprietor of land/house and David a tenant a few doors away.