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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: MattD30 on Saturday 13 January 18 00:23 GMT (UK)
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I am hoping someone can help me identify a possibly christening for my ancestor Sarah Heat.
My ancestor Joseph Turner married Sarah Heat on 20 January 1796 in Hartfield, Sussex. This was his second marriage and took place by Licence.
What is puzzling me is the fact that her name appears sometimes to be transcribed as Heat [which is what I have it as] and in other cases it is recorded as Heath!
So far I have only found two possible candidates for Sarah's christening, both in the neighbouring parish of Withyham and within 3 years of each other:
Sarah Heat - christened 4 May 1773 Withyham - daughter of Henry and Ann Heat
Sarah Heath - christened 25 December 1776 Withyham - daughter of Thomas and Ann Heath
Frustratingly I can't find a burial for either of these two, which is making is hard to know which one was married to Joseph Turner.
I have just been able to look at the original PR entry on Familysearch tonight and her name does look like HEAT rather than HEATH, which leads me to suspect that my Sarah is the daughter of Henry and Ann.
Thomas and Henry might be brothers but so far I haven't found anything beyond the christenings of their children.
If anyone can confirm my suspicion that my Sarah was the daughter of Henry and Ann, or can add any other useful info, I would be very grateful.
Many thanks in advance.
Matt
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Hi Matt
Burial at Withyham, St.Michael & All Angels.
Sarah HEATH buried 23 May 1777 daughter of Thomas and Ann.
Claire
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Looks like it was Sarah Heat...
Sarah Turner. Burial 04 Dec 1809, Hartfield, Sussex. Spouse's Name Joseph Turner.
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Hi Matt
Burial at Withyham, St.Michael & All Angels.
Sarah HEATH buried 23 May 1777 daughter of Thomas and Ann.
Claire
Thanks Claire
I had looked for a possible burial for either Sarah but not been able to find any. Makes the choice a bit easier now.
Matt
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Looks like it was Sarah Heat...
Sarah Turner. Burial 04 Dec 1809, Hartfield, Sussex. Spouse's Name Joseph Turner.
Thanks for that. I don't think I have the date of Sarah Turner's burial, so thank u.
Matt
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Thanks to both claire and solidrock for their help with this puzzle.
My Sarah now certainly looks to be the daughter of Henry and Ann HEAT. Sarah daughter of Thomas and Ann HEATH died in 1777.
I know Henry and Ann had another child, Samuel, christened in March 1771. However I've not found any other children for them, or a marriage.
Also does anyone think Thomas HEATH and Henry HEAT could be brothers? Heath could quickly be misread or misheard as Heat.
Anyhow thanks again and any other info on Henry and Ann HEAT would be welcomed.
Matt
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Hi Matt
I can't see a marriage for a Henry Heat either, but there is this one in Withyham worth considering maybe Henry's father or a relation
Henry HAIT married Ann Ovenden 19 October 1752
BURIALS
Anne HEATH widow buried 25 June 1810 Withyham
Henry HEATH buried 6 June 1778 Withyham aged 62
Claire
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Hi
I have found a baptism close to Withyham, which could possibly be Henry. It took place in Cowden, Kent which is five miles from Withyham
Henry Heat baptised 15 April 1753 at Cowden, son of Henry and Ann.
A sibling Mary is baptised too in Cowden on 2 March 1755
And a Hannah baptised 18 April 1762, also in Cowden.
************************************************************
Back in Withyham there is this
Lucy baptised 16 Oct 1774 mother Mary Heat.
On the 27 Oct 1792 a 'male' child was baptised son of Sarah Heath.
Claire
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Hi
I have found a baptism close to Withyham, which could possibly be Henry. It took place in Cowden, Kent which is five miles from Withyham
Henry Heat baptised 15 April 1753 at Cowden, son of Henry and Ann.
A sibling Mary is baptised too in Cowden on 2 March 1755
And a Hannah baptised 18 April 1762, also in Cowden.
************************************************************
Back in Withyham there is this
Lucy baptised 16 Oct 1774 mother Mary Heat.
On the 27 Oct 1792 a 'male' child was baptised son of Sarah Heath.
Claire
Hi Claire
Thanks for those bits of info. I think you are right to say that Henry Heat was the son of Henry Heat [Hait] and Ann Ovenden who married in 1752.
The Cowden link is interesting as the Turners had links there as well.
The question now is where were Henry Heat (born 1752) and his wife (Ann) married? I know that before Sarah Heat (born 1773) they had a son named Samuel christened in Withyham in 1771.
Anyhow thanks again, this gives me something to look into.
Matt
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Looks like it was Sarah Heat...
Sarah Turner. Burial 04 Dec 1809, Hartfield, Sussex. Spouse's Name Joseph Turner.
Is there any sign of a burial for Joseph Turner (between 1799 and 1850)? Or Anne Turner (between c1760 and 1799)?
Matt
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Hi Matt
I can't see a marriage for a Henry Heat either, but there is this one in Withyham worth considering maybe Henry's father or a relation
Henry HAIT married Ann Ovenden 19 October 1752
BURIALS
Anne HEATH widow buried 25 June 1810 Withyham
Henry HEATH buried 6 June 1778 Withyham aged 62
Claire
I think I might have the christening of Ann Ovenden.
"Ann Ovenden christened 2 May 1735 Withyham - daughter of William and Ellen/Eleanor"
There are a lot of Ovendens in Withyham and the neighbouring parish of Rotherfield who are probably connected.
Ann's father could either be William Ovenden who married Ellenor Pyke in 1709 in Withyham, but if so then both William and Ellen would be in their 40s when Ann was born (Ellen appears to have been born in 1691, and William in the 1680s).
William and Ellenor had a son named William in 1710 but it looks like he died as they had another William in 1726.
I'll see if I can find any Wills or other records which might help put these together.
Matt
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Hi
Ann Turner buried 13 December 1794 Hartfield, St. Mary.
There are four burials for a Joseph Turner in Hartfield. The first Joseph buried Hartfield 12 May 1810 was the son of Joseph of East Grinstead.
The other three, no ages given unfortunately all took place at Hartfield
29 September 1819
24 October 1821
29 December 1829
There are also two other marriages of a Joseph Turner in Hartfield around the same time your Joseph married Sarah Heat.
It's a pity no ages were recorded on the burials.
Claire
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Hi Matt
I can't see a marriage for a Henry Heat either, but there is this one in Withyham worth considering maybe Henry's father or a relation
Henry HAIT married Ann Ovenden 19 October 1752
BURIALS
Anne HEATH widow buried 25 June 1810 Withyham
Henry HEATH buried 6 June 1778 Withyham aged 62
Claire
How far is Withyham from Stoughton in Sussex? I've found a possible christening for Henry Heat in 1730
"Henry Heet - christened 2 April 1730 Stoughton - parents John Heet and Ann"
Matt
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Hi
Ann Turner buried 13 December 1794 Hartfield, St. Mary.
There are four burials for a Joseph Turner in Hartfield. The first Joseph buried Hartfield 12 May 1810 was the son of Joseph of East Grinstead.
The other three, no ages given unfortunately all took place at Hartfield
29 September 1819
24 October 1821
29 December 1829
There are also two other marriages of a Joseph Turner in Hartfield around the same time your Joseph married Sarah Heat.
It's a pity no ages were recorded on the burials.
Claire
Hi Claire
Thanks for that info. The burial for Ann defintely looks to be the right one. Joseph Turner was married firstly to Anne Weller in 1789 and as far as I can see they only had two children, Joseph christened in 1792 and William who was christened in 1795.
The Joseph christened in 1792 might be the same Joseph who was buried in East Grinstead in 1810.
There is also a Joseph Turner born to Joseph and Mary in Hartfield in 1761 and another [also born to Joseph and Mary] in 1770.
At least with this info I know when Joseph's first wife Anne was buried and I know when his second wife, Sarah was buried. Perhaps the answer to when he died/was buried lays in Probate records.
Thanks again
Matt
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Hi
Withyham to Stoughton is a fair way (68 miles) - the burial for the Henry Heath in 1778 Withyham says he was 62 - so a birthyear of c1716. I took this burial for the father of Henry born 1753.
Claire
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Hi
Withyham to Stoughton is a fair way (68 miles) - the burial for the Henry Heath in 1778 Withyham says he was 62 - so a birthyear of c1716. I took this burial for the father of Henry born 1753.
Claire
Hi Claire
I agree with you regarding Henry. A christening c1716 would make much more sense.
Matt
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Hi
I have found a baptism close to Withyham, which could possibly be Henry. It took place in Cowden, Kent which is five miles from Withyham
Henry Heat baptised 15 April 1753 at Cowden, son of Henry and Ann.
A sibling Mary is baptised too in Cowden on 2 March 1755
And a Hannah baptised 18 April 1762, also in Cowden.
************************************************************
Back in Withyham there is this
Lucy baptised 16 Oct 1774 mother Mary Heat.
On the 27 Oct 1792 a 'male' child was baptised son of Sarah Heath.
Claire
Hi Claire
Hope you can help me here. I've just been going through my notes on the Heat[h]/Hait line and noticed a possible problem regarding Henry Heat christened in Cowden in 1753 (son of Henry and Ann). However I now think he might have died young (if he did then I've just wasted 2 months researching the wrong people lol!)
In my notes I have a record of another Henry christened in Cowden on 22 March 1767 (again the parents are down as Henry and Ann).
Are you able to check the PR to see if there is a burial for the first Henry (chr 1753) between 1753 and 1767? If he died then the second Henry is probably the son of the same parents (Henry Heat and Ann Ovenden), however he would be too young to be the father of my Sarah Heat who was born in Withyham in 1773.
We know that there was a Sarah born to Thomas and Ann as well, but we also know that she died. Therefore my Sarah must be the daughter of Henry and Ann. If the Henry who was christened in 1753 did die young then I need to look elsewhere for her father.
Hope that made sense and I hope you can help.
Best Wishes and Thanks
Matt
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Hi Matt
You know how to make someone feel bad knowing how long you've worked on this ;D
I've tried everywhere I can think of online to find a burial record. It seems that Cowden burials are not online, just the baptisms (transcriptions only) - including the 1767 baptism you have in your notes. I just wish I'd seen it too first time round.
Apologies.
Claire
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Hi Matt
You know how to make someone feel bad knowing how long you've worked on this ;D
I've tried everywhere I can think of online to find a burial record. It seems that Cowden burials are not online, just the baptisms (transcriptions only) - including the 1767 baptism you have in your notes. I just wish I'd seen it too first time round.
Apologies.
Claire
Hi Claire
My apologies too lol! I have to admit it wasn't until I wasn't until I looked at my notes again and started to write up the material on the Ovendens that I noticed the potential problem. The thing that made me thing there might be a problem was that in none of the Ovenden wills that I have is the name Heat/Heath mentioned.
I have to admit I had forgotten I had posted this and I haven't done any work on the Heat/Heath line since, or the Ovendens etc. I suspect that the line of enquiry I have originally followed (ie Sarah daughter Henry Heat[h] and Ann Ovenden] is correct but having a second Sarah around at the same time, of the same age, and in the same area is just a bit confusing and a bit of a headache. No doubt these two were cousins lol!
Anyhow I am leaving this lot for a bit whilst I work on some of my other families in Kent, Wiltshire and Dorset. I will come back to this again in the next week or two though.
Matt
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I can't see a marriage for a Henry Heat either, but there is this one in Withyham worth considering maybe Henry's father or a relation
Henry HAIT married Ann Ovenden 19 October 1752
BURIALS
Anne HEATH widow buried 25 June 1810 Withyham
Henry HEATH buried 6 June 1778 Withyham aged 62
Could not Henry and Ann, married 1752, be the parents of Sarah born 1773? Thus eliminating the need for another Henry in between?
They marry in Withyham, toddle off to Cowden for a while. After the second(?) Henry is born (or baptized!) in Cowden they go back to Withyham.
On the other hand, a Henry Heat/Heath is in the Withyham land tax records from 1764 (but not before?). In the lists he is after William Ovenden of Blackham Court.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ8-BWXN?cat=340725
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Anne HEATH widow buried 25 June 1810 Withyham
I think I might have the christening of Ann Ovenden.
"Ann Ovenden christened 2 May 1735 Withyham - daughter of William and Ellen/Eleanor"
There are a lot of Ovendens in Withyham and the neighbouring parish of Rotherfield who are probably connected.
Ann's father could either be William Ovenden who married Ellenor Pyke in 1709 in Withyham, but if so then both William and Ellen would be in their 40s when Ann was born (Ellen appears to have been born in 1691, and William in the 1680s).
William and Ellenor had a son named William in 1710 but it looks like he died as they had another William in 1726.
I'll see if I can find any Wills or other records which might help put these together.
Matt
Matt will probably have seen this by now!
But it's the will of William Ovenden of Blackham Court, dated 11 June 1747, proved 3 August 1748 at Lewes. Wife Ellinor. Two sons, and four daughters including Ann (last named). The Ann baptized Withyham, 1735?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-68YY-JX?i=407&cat=685691
John
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I can't see a marriage for a Henry Heat either, but there is this one in Withyham worth considering maybe Henry's father or a relation
Henry HAIT married Ann Ovenden 19 October 1752
BURIALS
Anne HEATH widow buried 25 June 1810 Withyham
Henry HEATH buried 6 June 1778 Withyham aged 62
Could not Henry and Ann, married 1752, be the parents of Sarah born 1773? Thus eliminating the need for another Henry in between?
They marry in Withyham, toddle off to Cowden for a while. After the second(?) Henry is born (or baptized!) in Cowden they go back to Withyham.
On the other hand, a Henry Heat/Heath is in the Withyham land tax records from 1764 (but not before?). In the lists he is after William Ovenden of Blackham Court.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ8-BWXN?cat=340725
I'm not sure Henry Heat and Ann Ovenden (who married in 1752) were the parents of Sarah Heat (christened 1773). It looks like Henry was born in 1716 in Hawkhurst (to Richard and Ann Heat[h]) whilst Ann Ovenden was born in 1735 in Withyam (to William and Ann). If they were the parents of Sarah then he would be 57 when Sarah was born and Ann would have been 38.
It is possible I suppose however I think the confusing thing is the fact there are two Henrys born to parents named “Henry and Ann”
Henry christened in Cowden on 17 April 1753
Henry christened in Cowden on 22 March 1767
If the first Henry died then the second Henry could be another son of Henry Heat[h] and Ann Ovenden, and in that case he would be too young to be Sarah's father. This in turn would mean that Henry Heat[h] and Ann Ovenden wouldn't be her grandparents.
I suspect that the first Henry (born 1753) is Sarah's father, unless as you say she is the daughter of his father (ie Henry Heat and Ann Ovenden married in 1752). It's just confusing having two sets of parents called Henry and Ann – unless they are the same people.
The mention of Henry Heat on the tax list after William Ovenden is very interesting and makes me think there is a link.
It's a bit of a tangled puzzle to be honest.
Time to go back to my notes I think and see what I can work out.
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Anne HEATH widow buried 25 June 1810 Withyham
I think I might have the christening of Ann Ovenden.
"Ann Ovenden christened 2 May 1735 Withyham - daughter of William and Ellen/Eleanor"
There are a lot of Ovendens in Withyham and the neighbouring parish of Rotherfield who are probably connected.
Ann's father could either be William Ovenden who married Ellenor Pyke in 1709 in Withyham, but if so then both William and Ellen would be in their 40s when Ann was born (Ellen appears to have been born in 1691, and William in the 1680s).
William and Ellenor had a son named William in 1710 but it looks like he died as they had another William in 1726.
I'll see if I can find any Wills or other records which might help put these together.
Matt
Matt will probably have seen this by now!
But it's the will of William Ovenden of Blackham Court, dated 11 June 1747, proved 3 August 1748 at Lewes. Wife Ellinor. Two sons, and four daughters including Ann (last named). The Ann baptized Withyham, 1735?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-68YY-JX?i=407&cat=685691
John
Hi John
Yes I have seen this Will. I have a copy of it and the accompanying inventory.
Matt
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Hi Matt
Hope you see these
Claire
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Matt, you may be aware that a load more Kent parish registers have gone online (f m p)
Including Cowden
That 1753 baptism there says
April 15th Henry the Son of Henry and Ann Heat of Hartfield
Similarly, the baptisms of Mary in 1755 and Hannah in 1762 say that Henry + Ann were of Hartfield.
And there are a good number of other baptisms in the Cowden register where "of Hartfield" is noted.
The second Henry baptized 22 March 1767 says
Henry son of Henry Heath of Withyham by Anne his wife
No Henry, or indeed any, Heat/Heath burials are indexed in Cowden at that time. But apparently they weren't living there in any case!
John
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Matt, you may be aware that a load more Kent parish registers have gone online (f m p)
Including Cowden
That 1753 baptism there says
April 15th Henry the Son of Henry and Ann Heat of Hartfield
Similarly, the baptisms of Mary in 1755 and Hannah in 1762 say that Henry + Ann were of Hartfield.
And there are a good number of other baptisms in the Cowden register where "of Hartfield" is noted.
The second Henry baptized 22 March 1767 says
Henry son of Henry Heath of Withyham by Anne his wife
No Henry, or indeed any, Heat/Heath burials are indexed in Cowden at that time. But apparently they weren't living there in any case!
John
Hi John
Thanks for those bits of extra info. I've managed to sort my Heat/Heath family out now but I haven't got back further than Henry and Ann.
Given that these records suggest a link with Hartfield it is possible that Henry was from there. Sarah Heath and Joseph Turner were married there in 1796.
I'll have a look through the records on FindMyPast for Hartfield next time I go to the library.
Thanks for the info.
Matt