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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: dorothyl on Sunday 14 January 18 01:35 GMT (UK)

Title: Advice please.
Post by: dorothyl on Sunday 14 January 18 01:35 GMT (UK)
 Hi everyone.
 I hope  it will be ok to ask this. But I'm in need of some advice.  As everyone  probably knows  I've been  asking for  help  on different  family members of mine.  Mostly  my grandad. And his mum. Not forgetting  my gran. 
I am  really  happy with everyone's  help.  I wouldn't have got this far without  your help. 
I now  need  some advice  please. If it is ok.
 Next week  I be  going  to  apply for my grandads death certificate.  Which I will  receive in the post.
 Then my next  certificate  I am going to apply for  his my  great grans birth certificate.   A few weeks later.
Here is where I need advice.   I have found out my great gran Frances Jones.  Passed away  in 1967 age 77.  But she was living in hattersly Hyde.  So I would have to get her death certificate from tameside register office. 

So what I was thinking  is. When I  apply for my great grans birth certificate.  Should I put down her birthday  being  12th March.  Then 1890?  Because  if she was 77 when she passed away in 1967.  I came up with the year 1890 when she was born.  And would I put Manchester.? Also if it's not asking  to much.  Should I  need to put her parents  names  down. The names  I was kindly  given  by some members. 
I just want to make sure. So when I go to apply for my grandads death certificate. I could ask the   registra office  person  if they  look it up for me.  I did  this for a certificate  once before.  They put a number at the top right corner of the document  I had to fill in.  Which was my grandads birth certificate.

Anyway  thank you again for your help and time.  I really do appreciate everyone's help.
Thank you again
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: Girl Guide on Sunday 14 January 18 07:03 GMT (UK)
Hi Dorothy

Do you not have the GRO references for these deaths?  If you do you can order the certs by using the references given.

Example below

Deaths Sep 1960 
WHITE    Thomas    68    Blackpool    10b   486

This shows that the death was registered in the September quarter 1960, Registration District is Blackpool, Volume No. is 10b and Page No. is 486

Certs cost 9.25 from the GRO website.  Local registry offices tend to charge about 10 for certs.  Even if you order from abroad I think the charge is the same.
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: Girl Guide on Sunday 14 January 18 07:09 GMT (UK)
You could always write to the GRO first before ordering to check the cost.

Online

Before you order a certificate
If you would like to ask us a question, or want to know more about one of our services before you order a certificate you can email us directly at certificate.services@gro.gsi.gov.uk

If you do not wish to receive an autotext response please include GQ in the subject field of your email. We will respond to your email within 5 working days.
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 14 January 18 09:54 GMT (UK)
Frances Jones - June quarter 1891 - Warrington Registration District - Volume 8C, page 222

And we know, from the baptism record at St Elphin in Warrington, that Frances was born 11 March 1891.

The address in 1891 for William and Ellen was 12 Brick Street, Warrington.
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: dawnsh on Sunday 14 January 18 12:25 GMT (UK)
If you order death certificates for events before 1969, actual dates of birth are not recorded. Information on certificates is informant driven, even today, and information recorded may be sightly incorrect but not deliberately supplied as such.

If you order an historic birth or death certificate from the General Register Office at Southport, use the reference number from the many sites such as freebmd, FindMyPast, Ancestry or familysearch. If you do not use the reference number but give a date of birth or date of death which may be incorrect you might not get the certificate as the staff there may consider this to be a mis-match.

Again, if you order a birth cert from the GRO without a reference you will be asked to supply a place of birth which you may not know.

The same applies if you try to order a certificate locally.

Ordering a death direct from Warrington will cost 10 plus postage either 3 1st class or 1.50 2nd class, you will also have to answer questions you may not have the answers to

https://registrars.warrington.gov.uk/rafts/CopyCertificates/Process/Certificate/CertificateOrderForm.aspx

such as the actual pace of death

Most people here choose to use the General Register Office with reference numbers for certificates.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: dawnsh on Sunday 14 January 18 12:29 GMT (UK)
I just checked Tameside register office, it seems you annot order direct from them, you have to follow a link

https://www.tameside.gov.uk/copycertificates

Again you may not hve all the information they need, they do not receognise the GRO reference number system.

Certs cost 10 plus 2 postage.
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: J.R.Ellam on Sunday 14 January 18 20:23 GMT (UK)
Hi

I have been using the Gro.gov site & ordered a couple of death certificates online it is cheaper & you get an electric copy in a few days.

John
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 14 January 18 21:16 GMT (UK)
Frances Jones died in Ashton under Lyne Hospital in 1967.

Have you checked the 1939 Register to see her date of birth?

What was her maiden name?
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: dorothyl on Monday 15 January 18 00:53 GMT (UK)
 Hi.
My great gran Frances Jones.  Was her birth name.  So Jones was her maiden name  as she never married. Before or after the birth of your son Alfred evan Jones. 

Thank you.
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: Annette7 on Monday 15 January 18 11:06 GMT (UK)
As I mentioned on your other thread (to which you didn't respond) you seem to be making things over complicated for yourself by ordering from the local register offices.   It's far simpler ordering direct from the GRO and all you need to quote is the details from the relevant index.

Annette 
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: groom on Monday 15 January 18 11:26 GMT (UK)
As I mentioned on your other thread (to which you didn't respond) you seem to be making things over complicated for yourself by ordering from the local register offices.   It's far simpler ordering direct from the GRO and all you need to quote is the details from the relevant index.

Annette

Not only that, it is far cheaper! Even if you order a paper certificate it is only 9.25 post free compared to 10 plus postage from a register office.
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: isobelw on Monday 15 January 18 11:36 GMT (UK)
As I mentioned on your other thread (to which you didn't respond) you seem to be making things over complicated for yourself by ordering from the local register offices.   It's far simpler ordering direct from the GRO and all you need to quote is the details from the relevant index.

Annette
I agree with Annette that you are over- complicating things and you are also ignoring relevant information that has been given to you already on your various threads.

Away back in November we ascertained that a William Hopwood Jones is buried in the same grave as your grandfather Alfred Evan Jones. Alfred is the illegitimate son of Frances Jones. All the evidence from census, 1939 register, baptism record etc points to Frances being the daughter of William Hopwood Jones and Ellen Jones nee Tomlinson born 1891. You have been given the exact reference to purchase her birth certificate -
Frances Jones jun quarter 1891 Warrington reg district volume 8c page 222
Isobel
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: medpat on Monday 15 January 18 11:56 GMT (UK)
PDF copies are only 6.00 from GRO for both birth and death certificates.  :)
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: Girl Guide on Monday 15 January 18 12:13 GMT (UK)
But note that the dates for births stop at 1917 and for deaths the last year given is 1957.  So I'm afraid Dorothy will have to pay the full 9.25 for a certificate as Frances died in 1967.
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: medpat on Monday 15 January 18 12:33 GMT (UK)
Agree GG but she was also referring to wanting a birth cert from the 1890s which comes under the 6.00 PDF. The choice is there on GRO.
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: dorothyl on Monday 15 January 18 15:26 GMT (UK)
Hi everyone.
Thank you for your help. I'm sorry  I've not  been answering.  I've been going through all everyone's  help. Just so I can understand it all properly. ( Make it sink in my memory )   
I would like to thank you all for the help everyone as given me. Without your help  I wouldn't have known  what I do now. I didn't  even know who my great grans parents names are.  Which I was wondering.  When I went to the library in Manchester  I was trying to find  out about my great gran Frances Jones.  Then I got stuck because I didn't know where she was born or the year  of her birth.  Both my mum and I thought my grandad was born in 1910. But since  everyone's  help he was born 1914.   I have checked  with the cemetery where my grandad is buried. And apparently  he passed away at the age of 31. He would have been 32 the month after if he had lived.  So when I applied for my grandparents marriage certificate. I noticed that my grandad was 19 when he married my gran. And my gran was 24 .
In 1933. As they got married in December 1933.
When I went backwords   taking there ages off the year they was born. 
My grandad was born 1914. But my gran was born 1909 which is odd because  my mum always said she was born 1911. Unless mum was told different  for some reason.

I have seen  my great grans fathers  name in the same grave as my grandad.  Which I really  didn't  know about until  I was told by the cemetery  person.  Who told me the date of when my grandad was buried. And the date he passed away. 
So everything everyone  has told me  on this group  have been  spot on with things I knew. Even  the things I forgot about.   I would like to say that I will be getting my grandads death certificate. Very soon.  And then my great grans death certificate. Which hopefully  next  then  her birth  certificate.
Then my next task is trying to find out where my gran was actually born and her proper year.  But as yet I can't find her as we really don't know  if she was adopted  or not and the year's  of her birth are 2 different year's.  Unless  she was born 1909 and somone  adopted  her 1911. I only know what my mum told  me. But there again my gran  wouldn't  talk to my mum about things not even about herself.  So we just know she was born 26th of February. 1911  I think  it's possible  she was born 1909.if she was 24 when she married my grandad Alfred evan Jones in 1933.

Anyway thank you so much for your help. I can't do this without any help.
It's  amazing  how you can find things in a matter of a short time.  It takes me ages to find 1 thing.then I'm not sure if I had the wright ones.  That's when I was doing my dad's side of the family.

Thank you all again
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: dorothyl on Monday 15 January 18 15:59 GMT (UK)
Hi everyone.
 I'm not sure who the kind person was who gave me the details of how to get certificates.
 
 But  can someone  please tell me.  When I eventually  apply for my great grans birth certificate.  What quater  would it come  under?  As she was born in march  on the 12th.  And would they know  if she's the wright person I'm buying the certificate  of.  I have  seen  the details  someone  put on for me. I just can't seem to find it. 
I was originally going to put 12th of march  1890. But now I'm not sure  if  it's 1891 and still the 12th of march.
A lady  put my great grans  baptism  details on for me I think  and shows  her date as 29th of march 1891. 
I know I keep asking the same thing.  But I have a  slight  memorie  problem. I can't seem to hold a memorie  long unless  I wright thing's down.  Even when I'm  reading something  I have to read  the same line more than 3/4 times.

I don't know if that is normal  or just that I have  too much on my mind.

I would like to share something with  this group.  And that is.  Before  I put my  help on here I didn't  know  where to start or where to go for help. As the only person  who could help me  had passed away. And she was my dear  mum.
She helped me in everything  I wanted to know.  If she knew  it she would  tell me. If she wasn't sure  she said oh I'm not sure.  Even  to a photo  I had and wasn't sure if I was in the photo  as it was a school  photo.taken with other classes.  I shown  her this photo  and said mum can you see anyone in this photo  you  reconise.  I was looking for my school  friends. 
She said yes really  excited.  Saying  yes  I do I asked  who it was. She pointed  out the person  and said there's you. I asked  where  she shown me. After asking  her are you sure.  She replied.  Well if I don't know my own daughter now I would never know.  Then she explained  about the problem I have with my parting.  Which I still have today.  It's called a cow's lip. 
So when I became stuck with my quest  and had no help. A voice  came in my head.  Saying  trying  your  group. (As I've not been on it for a while ) so I thought  I will  see if anyone can help me.
And I am  really  pleased  I did.  You have all helped  me things I never knew and no doubt  my mum  didn't  either. 
I'd like to think  my mum  is watching me doing this as it's for her as I made her a promise. I would  find out for her.
But she passed away before I could finish it.  I know she's  not here. But a promise is a promise.  I owe her that for her help. And it would  help me  with my family background and my family tree.

There is one thing my mum said but apparently  there's  no trace  of  him as I've found out he was born in England.
Which was my grandad.   My mum thought my grandad was born in wales and she mentioned  Rhos on sea. 
I don't know  how it's connected.  But I've found out my grandad was born in England.  As the Welsh  register office  said there's nothing  on their records.  But told me there is on England records.  So now it's been confirmed  that my grandad was born in England. 
I just  can't  remember what Rhos on sea has to do with either my grandad or his mum.

Anyway thank you all again  I really do appreciate all your help  and advice.
Thank you
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: Girl Guide on Monday 15 January 18 17:08 GMT (UK)
Dorothy the best place to get the birth certificate is from the GRO website

This is the birth registration that Bumble B found


Name:                   Mother's Maiden Surname:    
JONES, FRANCES       TOMLINSON     
GRO Reference: 1891  J Quarter in WARRINGTON  Volume 08C  Page 222   Order
 

Tomlinson is the maiden name of Frances mother.

You can order from the search page:-

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

If you are not already registered on the GRO website you will need to do this before you can order the certificate.

You don't need to do anything other than press either the certificate button or the pdf button, the website will automatically fill in the details for you.  You then carry on through the ordering process.

If you get stuck do ask for help, that's what we are here for.
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 15 January 18 17:11 GMT (UK)
This was also posted here

From the information given here this is Frances birth certificate which you can order from the GRO

JONES, FRANCES       mothers maiden name TOMLINSON     
1891  June Quarter
WARRINGTON  Volume 08C  Page 222   

A June qtr registration would fit with a March birth

You can order this registration from the GRO as a PDF for 6. 
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

It will cost you 10 from Tameside or 9.25 as a certificate from the GRO.
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: Girl Guide on Monday 15 January 18 17:32 GMT (UK)
Dorothy

If you prefer you can order certficates by downloading an application form, filling in the details and sending it by post to the GRO.

Link below so that you can download the form

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/general-register-office-gro-certificate-application-forms

Look for the Birth Certificate one.
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: dorothyl on Monday 15 January 18 17:55 GMT (UK)
Thank  you.
I didn't  like to ask too many things.
Im getting my grandads death certificate this week.  From  the register office. As Im in Manchester  anyway.

But I will  ask for help.  Thank you
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: Girl Guide on Monday 15 January 18 18:09 GMT (UK)
That's fine Dorothy.  Do let us know how you get on with getting your certificates and of course ask if you would like any more help searching for information.   :) :)
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: isobelw on Monday 15 January 18 18:45 GMT (UK)
Re. A possible link to Rhos on Sea. There is a good match for Frances in 1911 ( right age and place of birth), boarding with a family in Llandrillo yn Rhos, Colwyn Bay.
Isobel
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: heatherjulie on Monday 15 January 18 18:59 GMT (UK)
Before you order the death certificate for Frances  Jones, are you certain that she died in 1967 aged 77?
There is a death for another Frances Jones in 1971 at Ashton under Lyne Hospital aged 80.

Apologies if this has already been discussed.

Heather
Title: Re: Advice please.
Post by: BumbleB on Tuesday 16 January 18 09:46 GMT (UK)
Hi Heather:  that's a different Frances Jones, who was registered December quarter 1891 in Ashton under Lyne.  But thanks for the input - not easy when Frances Jones is a fairly common name  :-\