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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: Jill Eaton on Wednesday 17 January 18 12:55 GMT (UK)
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For anyone whose been using Ancestry dna for genealogy purposes do you take your allocated Genetic communities seriously or simply treat them as the Ethnicity Estimate - a bit of fun but not of much real use?
I've been allocated 3:
Munster Ireland
Southern England
Northern England & The Midlands
My research confirms that most of my family come from Southern England - Devon and London all the way up to Cambridgeshire
The Northern England and Midlands - I've maternal family from West Yorkshire and Leicestershire
The Munster Ireland is the one that confuses me. I do have Irish ancestry. I don't know where from. It's a brick wall that I can't breach using a paper trail (so far at least) so do I assume that the Genetic Community is a useful avenue to pursue? I have some circumstantial leads which isn't hard evidence that they may have come from County Cork.
I believe that one of the communities allocated on Ancestry is Cork rather then Munster. Does that mean my ancestors didn't come from Cork? Isn't Cork actually IN Munster? I'm confused by why there are two communities that appear to cover the same region.
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Mine is dead on - southern England, that is where my paper trail is.
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The island of Ireland is divided into 4 Provinces:
Munster, Connacht, Leinster and Ulster.
Each of these Provinces contains a number of Counties.
For Munster that is: Cork, Clare, Kerry, Limerick, Tipperary and Waterford.
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The island of Ireland is divided into 4 Provinces:
Munster, Connacht, Leinster and Ulster.
Each of these Provinces contains a number of Counties.
For Munster that is: Cork, Clare, Kerry, Limerick, Tipperary and Waterford.
Indeed, which is why I'm confused.
Since I haven't been allocated the Cork Community does this mean
A) That although my family come from Munster they are NOT from Cork?
B) That they do come from Cork but that isn't their DNA's place of origin? So they moved to county Cork from somewhere else in Munster
C) Cork county or city (Ancestry doesn't specify) has a very specific DNA signature that is ONLY found here and no where else in Munster? Hence they have a genetic community all to themselves
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I think you're trying to read far too much into these ethnicity estimates?
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I think you're trying to read far too much into these ethnicity estimates?
And had I asked the question regarding ethnicity estimates I'm certain you would be correct.
However, My original question was about Genetic Communities
According to the Ancestry website: I quote....
How is this different to the Ethnicity Estimate?
Good question. Your ethnicity estimate shows where your DNA came from hundreds to thousands of years ago, calculated by comparing your DNA to a reference panel of people with deep roots in each of those regions. Think of this like an older picture of where you are from.
Genetic Communities reveal a much more recent picture. They are groups of AncestryDNA members who are connected because they share fairly recent ancestors who came from the same region or culture, determined by their DNA matches. For many of us, that may mean discovering links to Genetic Communities within the UK and Ireland.
Exploring Genetic Communities in the UK and Ireland
Our science team have identified dozens of Genetic Communities within Britain and Ireland.
These branches include Southern English, Northern English, Scots, English Midlanders, The Welsh & English West Midlanders, Ulster Irish, Connacht Irish and Munster Irish. These branches are then broken down even further into specific Genetic Communities for those regions.
And also hence my original question...
"For anyone whose been using Ancestry dna for genealogy purposes do you take your allocated Genetic communities seriously or simply treat them as the Ethnicity Estimate - a bit of fun but not of much real use?"
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Hi Jill,
I do not understand it much- or at least I haven’t tried to do so.
I do not have a published tree and just wanted to see what came up when I did the test.
Originally, the test showed 53% Irish which has now been modified by Ancestry to show Ethnicity Estimate 53% Ireland/Scotland/Wales.
Then it shows Connacht, Ireland - Mayo and Sligo.
Looking at various matches, only a few have trees and they are in US, I can see surnames which are to be found in the fairly discrete area of Mayo where my family come from. Two second cousins and a third cousin are the top ranking and I know the relationship. I also know from my own research that several families from my area emigrated to a certain area in US and the matches show this pattern.
I presume this is the Genetic Communities - the people who have tested and we share the same origins of place. :-\
I suppose, in answer to your question, in this example I take it seriously because to me it shows some evidence.
Heywood
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Hi Jill,
I do not understand it much- or at least I haven’t tried to do so.
I do not have a published tree and just wanted to see what came up when I did the test.
Originally, the test showed 53% Irish which has now been modified by Ancestry to show Ethnicity Estimate 53% Ireland/Scotland/Wales.
Then it shows Connacht, Ireland - Mayo and Sligo.
Looking at various matches, only a few have trees and they are in US, I can see surnames which are to be found in the fairly discrete area of Mayo where my family come from. Two second cousins and a third cousin are the top ranking and I know the relationship. I also know from my own research that several families from my area emigrated to a certain area in US and the matches show this pattern.
I presume this is the Genetic Communities - the people who have tested and we share the same origins of place. :-\
I suppose, in answer to your question, in this example I take it seriously because to me it shows some evidence.
Heywood
Thanks Heywood. That's actually very helpful in providing some evidence that the correlation between the assigned communities and actual research match up and offer real confirmation.
My ethnicity estimate, amongst other information. informs me I'm 3% Southern Europe. Whilst that's very interesting the chances of me ever being able to identify an ancient ancestor from somewhere in the (vary vague) area of Southern Europe is probably impossible. And really isn't worth any effort trying. If I'd discovered I was 60% North American Indian coming from an entirely European background then THAT I would take seriously ;D
However, finding the possible/probable location of a whole branch of ancestors born 200 years ago is of far more relevance.
Since Genetic Communities are supposed to be more recent I'm hoping they will actually be of more genealogical use ;D
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I think it will help you because it is more recent.
I also have 7% Iberian peninsula in my ethnicity estimate which, in part, contributed to my desire to take the test- family colouring and appearance.
There are various historical explanations/stories re ‘Spanish blood’: the Armada and Black Irish etc but I think there have been modern more scientific recent studies into this area of common dna but I haven’t studied them.
I am sure someone on here will put me right. :-\
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Hi Heywood, just a question concerning this info which you posted.
'Originally, the test showed 53% Irish which has now been modified by Ancestry to show Ethnicity Estimate 53% Ireland/Scotland/Wales.
Then it shows Connacht, Ireland - Mayo and Sligo.'
I have a 26% Ireland/Scotland/Wales ethnicity estimate but where then did you find the 'Connacht' and further info. I can't seem to find anything else against my Irish figure.
Thanks, Pheno
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As I said if I remember correctly, the figures were 53% Ireland; 34% ??? Great Britain- I can’t quite recall. Then Ancestry modified results - perhaps when Ethnicity Estimate etc. was introduced.
If you look at that box- EE with the pie chart etc there is a ‘discover your DNA story’s box within. Click on that and the EE is broken down.
My Ireland etc shows what I said previously and my Great Britain shows Northern England and the Midlands and also Wales and the West Midlands as the two sub-groups.
I have not found any Welsh ancestry yet.
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Do they really lump Scottish, Irish and Welsh together? Do they narrow that down at all?
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Mine is, but then I only have Connacht Ireland showing. :-\
As far as I know, I have no Scottish or Welsh ancestry.
You would have to see what is shown for someone who shares 2 or more of those countries.
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In my case, I suppose, I am happy with the results as generally, they give what I expected plus I can see possibility in the connections shown.
For others though, the results are perhaps too vague and don’t help with their research.
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Mine is, but then I only have Connacht Ireland showing. :-\
As far as I know, I have no Scottish or Welsh ancestry.
You would have to see what is shown for someone who shares 2 or more of those countries.
I asked because I know I have Scottish ancestry but, even though I have plausible family anecdotes about an Irish connection, I've never been able to substantiate them. So, a Scottish/Irish/Welsh verdict isn't going to help.
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Jill
I've been reading several books recently about the ancestral DNA make-up of Europeans in connection with the archaeological findings, trying to get some understanding of what it means in DNA terms to be European.
The books are about migrations and history as opposed to genealogy.
There have been several migrations to and from Ireland over the last 3000 years. it's a complicated and involved story. But the shortened version is that what is recognisably considered to be "irish" dna has migrated to both Scotland and Wales (and of course The USA, new Zealand and Australia) It appears both ancient and comparably modern population migrations are far more common than we generally think. This it what I believe makes Ethnicity Estimates rather pointless. They are too far removed to be of much use.
There is a belief (or myth/legend) that the western Scots are named after the Scotti migrating from Northern Ireland centuries ago. Wales is not a long sea crossing from Ireland - travel in both directions seems more than likely. It makes the genetic make-up of the British very mixed indeed.
Of more use (I hope) are the allocated Genetic Communities which narrow your dna matches to a more specific region provided a distinct DNA signature/cluster can be identified.
It's possible that if you have enough Scottish ancestry in the last couple of hundred years, it can be allocated to a specific area of Scotland.
From my own perspective it remains to be seen how helpful these matches are.
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Sorry Jill
I should have also said that if you do have irish relations then hopefully you'll have a genetic community allocated in a region of Ireland when you get your results
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Thanks, Jill. I obviously haven't studied the subject anywhere near as much as you have, so I'm grateful for your input.
I hadn't grasped that the Ethnicity Estimate is way back - as you say, migration rather than genealogy. I have a lot to learn on this subject and, once I have my DNA results, I shall try to study the findings more closely.
I have a particular area of Dublin - Blackrock - mentioned by my (now deceased) auntie so would hope that might come up, though not sure under which of the 4 provinces mentioned. Actually, I'm rather hoping it doesn't 'come up' because, as I said, I can't find any proof - and we're talking as recent as the early 19th century - so at least that wouldn't shoot a bloomin' great hole in my research!!
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From the postings I've read, it seems to me that some people don't know that Oxford Scientists conducted a large genetic study a few years ago and published their very interesting findings with graphs, diagrams and explanatory notes. Many online newspapers such as the Telegraph and Mail Online plus other websites reflect the news.
url link: http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ldz/
In recent years extremely large uninhabited cities have been found deep under the Kalahari and Sahara Deserts. Where did these people head to? There's a diagram on this page which shows the route northwards.
"Irish people originate from the MIDDLE EAST: Celtic DNA shows farming led to a 'wave of immigrants' entering Ireland 4,000 years ago
Researchers analysed DNA from remains of four people found in Ireland
Stone Age farmer woman is thought to have had dark hair and brown eyes
Three Bronze Age men genetically closer to modern Irish, with blue eyes
The findings show that that waves of people that made it to Ireland's ancient shores helped to shape the modern genetic identity
url link:- http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ldy/
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Thanks Heywood.
Only my 36% Great Britain is broken down into Southern England the other %ages of Ireland, Scandinavia and the Iberian Peninsular have no further breakdown at all and I assumed that I had to do something along the lines you suggested to retrieve this.
As there is no breakdown for the rest I assume it is not able to be defined further.
Have some people got a breakdown for more than their highest % area then?
Pheno
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Thanks Rena,
I’ll have a look at that.
I had seen this https://owlcation.com/stem/Irish-Blood-Genetic-Identity which you might want to see.
Heywood
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Hi Jill, as my family have been very boring in there movements the Genetic Communities are not telling me anything new.
My mothers family came from Suffolk and moved towards London based on all my paper trails, and comes up as 74% Great Britain, and appears in the 'Southern England' community, sub divided into the 'East Anglia & Essex' and 'Southern England' regions.
For my father his family came from south London (with one line of irish roots) and then East Sussex coast, he is showing as 39% I/S/W, 29% Europe West and 25% Great Britain, and again appears in the 'Southern England' community, sub divided into 'South East England' region.
As you can see they both follow the paper trail, but don't add anything new, I would have liked some clues to the known Irish connection but no joy :-)
Richard
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One of my relatives has no genetic communities at all!
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For my father his family came from south London (with one line of irish roots) and then East Sussex coast, he is showing as 39% I/S/W, 29% Europe West and 25% Great Britain, and again appears in the 'Southern England' community, sub divided into 'South East England' region.
As you can see they both follow the paper trail, but don't add anything new, I would have liked some clues to the known Irish connection but no joy :-)
Richard
Your father's breakdown is very similar to mine. Although I now live in rural Cambridgeshire, I was born in South East London with both sets of parents and grandparents also from the same area
It's the gt gt grandparents that start to filter in from further afield - Berkshire, Oxfordshire, Leicestershire, West Yorkshire, Devon, Essex and Ireland
Back another generation and Cambridgeshire gets added to the mix.
I'm hoping the DNA connection to Ireland will be revealed at some point by a Ancestry DNA match.
My ethnicity estimation is 40% Irish/Welsh/Scottish, 32% Western Europe and 25% Great Britain with 3% Europe South. This is from Ancestry
My MyHeritageDNA mix is not identical but I can't remember what it is without looking.
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I don't know if it's because we're American, but neither my husband nor I have anything labeled Genetic Communities, but we both have groups under Migration. I have one, and my husband has two. All of them fit with the paper trail, but they don't cover every branch of our trees.