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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: chrisferguson on Friday 19 January 18 19:19 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
Researching my family tree and have hit a roadblock with regards to my maternal great grandfather.
My Mothers maiden name is Esdaile and Her father Herbert Esdaile changed his name from Herbert Solomon by deed poll in 1949.
My family has no idea why the Esdaile name was chosen.
My great grandfather was an Ernest Solomon also known as Ernest Esdaile
Ernest Solomon born 1877 and on the 1911 census has his birthplace as Milbourne Australia Colonial - i am assuming it is a typo and melbourne is the place of birth.
He died in 1917 and his surname on the death records and on his marriage certificate is shown as solomon.
However on the 1911 census and his trade union membership it is given as Esdaile.
I have found 2 records of him emigating to australia in 1887 at the of 10 and in 1911 at34.
His father is noted as Jacob Solomon on his marriage certificate.
The problem i now face is i cannot find any trace of an Ernest Esdaile or Ernest Solomon being born in Australia in 1877.
Does anyone have access to a solomon family tree with links to the esdaile name or could suggestions ?
Thank you
Chris
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His arrival, 1887, would be the earliest evidence you would have of his existence?
"......I have found 2 records of him emigating to australia in 1887 at the of 10 and in 1911 at 34."
What family name does he use for each arrival......ship details please.....who is he with.....family members...for each arrival.
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Arrival in 1887 is the earliest record I can find assuming it is the same person on Australian records.
On british records the earliest record is the 1911 census under the Esdaile surname.
Could not find a passenger list as was assuming he would have been accompanied.
departed London 11/1/1887
Arrived brisbane 08/03/1887
Ship was the Almora.
I have attached refence and census return.
Kind regards
Chris
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Hi Chris,
I'm not sure if this is relevant ... are Florrie and Stella ESDAILE (SOLOMON) in your family?
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article57992374
Soubrette-soprano Ruby Esdale is no relation to Florrie and Stella Es-
daile (an "I" please), the real name of the latter being Solomon. They lived
next door to the Princess Theatre, Melbourne, and took their stage name
from the Esdaile piano.
Ros
adding : No it seems unlikely (well it was a long shot ;D ). Stella Esdaile was a granddaughter of John SOLOMON, a well-known citizen of Hokitika, NZ http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ldi/
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Hi Ros,
That is really useful thank you,i will investigate and see if there is any extended family from Stella Esdaile that links to mine.
I have very little information regards possible family in Australia literally only that my Great Grandfather was born there and his fathers name.
Chris
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The family on the Almora in 1887 was Robert and Ulma SOLOMON and children from Switzerland.
Debra :)
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"..My Mothers maiden name is Esdaile and Her father Herbert Esdaile changed his name from Herbert Solomon by deed poll in 1949."
At 1949, where in Australia is your SOLOMON / ESDALE.
What state did they live in.
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thanks everyone for the help.
Ros i have found Stella Esdaile living in lambeth in 1911 only a stones throw from my grand-dad's address in kennington.
Singing family from Australia i have also found some english papers from the time showing here in panto and theatre shows.
I am thinking it cannot be a co-incedence there cannot be 2 families known as esdaile but born as solomon living so close to each other at the same time ?
Sadly there isnt a father detailed on Stella Esdailes census so cant tell if she is a younger sister or prehaps a cousin.
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Hi Chris,
I added to my previous post - Stella's grandfather was John SOLOMON of NZ. :(
Incidentally Florrie married George F PACK (composer and conductor) and lived in England, her daughter was Mrs V GRUTE and Florrie's sister Stella became Mrs ROTHENBERG of Wellington. http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article205212985
I was starting to think it was a red herring
Ros
But I will look for more on John SOLOMON of NZ
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might still be a family link as another co-incidence is that when my granddad's brother Arthur Solomon died in 1959 his wife and children left London to start a new life in New Zealand.
I recently found my mums cousin living in Auckland and spoke to him on the phone but he knew nothing of his past.
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Hey Chris
A bit more on Stella.
http://www.hat-archive.com/biographies.htm
'Miss Stella Esdaile
The young lady who is to play Sinbad in Mr C B Westmacott’s pantomime of ‘Sinbad the Sailor’ at Her Majesty’s Theatre this Christmas, was born in Melbourne on December 17 1877'.
Looks like she was born Estelle SOLOMON at Collingwood, Reg in 1878 to John and Annie SOLOMON nee SOLOMONS.
bitzar.
ADD: Also other issue to same parents. Couldn't see a Florence.
https://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/
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This looks like the death of John SOLOMON of Hokitika who died in Sydney
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ldj/
From NSW BDM
John SOLOMON, father Solomon, mother Lydia at Glebe reg 13102/1927
Ros
adding : no it mentions that this John SOLOMON had 4 daughters - which doesn't account for a son John SOLOMON who married Annie. I'll look for death of another John SOLOMON of Hokitika
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maybe it is a red herring.
The only facts I have of my great granddad are as follows.
1877 born Milborne,Victoria,Australia
31/01/1904 Ernest Solomon married Hester Windish -whitechapel
Ernest was a commercial traveller and fathers name give as Jacob Solomon
1911 census shows them living under the Esdaile surname at 138 lower kennington lane
1917 Ernest Solomon passed away
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I'm happy to run with it Chris :)
Following on from bitzar's find (well done :) )
Marriage announcement for John and Annie SOLOMON (nee SOLOMONS) in 1868
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article5812287
SOLOMON—SOLOMONS.—On the 25th inst., at the
Bourke-street Synagogue, by the Rev. Mr. Ornstien,
Mr. John Solomon, of Hokitika, New Zealand, to
Annie, the eldest daughter of Mr. A. Solomons, of
this city.
Ros
adding : another long shot ;D Possible death of Annie in London in 1928 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article3957034 in
ESDAILE (nee Solomons).—[By cable.]-On the
12th September, at Brixton, London, Annie, the
beloved sister of Abe, Mark, Joe, Katey, and Alf. At rest.
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Who are witnesses 1904 marriage certificate?
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I was just thinking... Ernest sais his father was Jacob SOLOMON. I don't suppose Jacob is the Hebrew for John?!?!
Also, Stella (Estelle) was born in 1877 and supposedly so was Ernest. Could it be possible that they were twins and both names issues on the same BC but only Estelle's was registered in error?!?!
Chris, have you found Jacob SOLOMON on any census?! What about the 1887 immigration when it says Ernest SOLOMON was inbound from Switzerland?!?!
Soz for all the questions.
bitzar.
ADD: FYI... SOLOMON is also a very early Victorian name. One family were here prior to 1835. I'm not suggesting this is your family though.
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Hard to decipher the witnesses.
4 names one of the surnames looks like neltefieiden.
Only census entry I can find for Ernest Esdaile is 1911.
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Can you scan the marriage certificate and post it here for us to see.
There is a probate record to find for Ernest SOLOMON AKA ESDAILE, d 1917.
Might be useful information to see.
London electors has Ernest ESDAILE at 138 Lower Kennington in 1911, 9 Montford 1913 / 14 / 15.
Always ESDAILE.
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Re Ros' addition:
Defintely OUR Annie. Seems an interesting family of Dutch Jews the SOLOMONS.
Is this possible:
SOLOMON, Ernest
b, Collingwood 1890 (2337)
F: John SOLOMON
M: Annie SOLOMONS.
This Ernest is the bro of Stella and Florence. BUT it makes him VERY young to marry Esther in 1904. Is it possible he moved his age 10 years because they HAD to get married?! OR could it be a late registration, but no R after the reg to explain this.
This also explains why Ernest and Stella and Annie were all using the name ESDAILE.
bitzar.
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Hi I am part of the family went to New Zealand in 1960 & the son of Arthur John Esdaile. I have not been able to trace Annie May or Herbert E, sister & brother. I also got back to Ernest son of Jacob but got no further. Ernest Solomon in 1911 census uses Esdaile place of birth Melbourne, however an immigration record shows English not a colonist.1911 census shows Annie & Arthur as Esdaile. Death certificates of Arthur & Herbert in the name of Esdaile
That's about all I have would appreciate more if there is any.
In te middle of moving house so sporadic for a bit.
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Welcome to rootschat Mike :) Good to have some more input.
Ros
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It seems Florence was born in NZ (as it states in 1901 census)
From NZ BDM https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/home
1872 Florence SOLOMON, father John, mother Annie reg 14753
There are also other possible births about this time in NZ to a John and Annie
1871 Abram Charles SOLOMON, father John, mother Annie
1875 Harold SOLOMON, father John, mother Annie
But no sign of an Ernest
Ros
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Ros
Ernest was born in 1890.
Reply #18
bitzar.
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Yes good find Bitzar :) Just wondered if there was another possibility given the age difference ...
But yes it could be a late registration which wasn't noted as such.
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It seems in 1878 there was a bad insolvency case in Melbourne regarding John SOLOMON. This is def the correct John SOLOMON as he names A. SOLOMONS as his father in law and POLLOCK and BEVAN in Hokitika. Remember he died the same as POLLOCK in Glebe, NSW in 1927.
The newspaper article re his death states he was 95, making him about 20 years older than Annie (Looks like she was actually born as Hannah). NSW deaths have his parents as Solomon and Lydia. The 1851 has a Solomon, b Holland and Lydia, b City of London with their family. No John but there is a Jonas bc1832. Also note that one of John's sisters married POLLOCK.
#stillcouldbearedherring
bitzar
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I was thinking that the John
HOLLAND SOLOMON who died in 1927 (as an old citizen of Hokitika) was the grandfather of Stella so father of John HOLLAND SOLOMON who fathered Stella and Florence. I think his age of 95/6 allows that at a push.
But the obit only mentions 4 daughters ... :(
adding : but yes it fits in other ways so perhaps the obit missed some family
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OK, have I missed something?! Who is John HOLLAND?! :o
bitzar.
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No sorry I meant SOLOMON - was doing something else and not good at multitasking. I will correct it to save confusion.
adding: I was at records office yesterday photographing a dozen or so probates and divorces and sent out the links last night so now receiving queries and responses about a dozen or so families - none of which were HOLLAND ;D
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Thought that might of been the case Ros. Glad I'm not the only one... ;D
Interesting the Obit only mentions the daughters?!?! Possible the others are deceased?!?!
bitzar.
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Hi Mike,
I have sent you a PM.
you are my mum's direct cousin.
Herbert Emmanuel Esdaile was my grandfather.
He was born in 1911 and died in 1959 married Joan Mitchell 08/11/1950.
They had 4 children David Born May 1951 who sadly passed away in 2016,Heather 26/9/52.Robert born march 1957 and Barry who was born in 1959 but died as an infant in 1960.
Mum lives close to me in Sutton,Surrey and Robert lives in Kennington.
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Got your pm 2 messages to go before I can reply.
My Brother is Adrian & Sister is Ann. Both living Auckland and I am in Kerikeri and movong to Christchurch very soon.
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This is post 3 and I am now off to bed . I should nowbe able to PM
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Good to see you two have connected. :)
By the way you can download historical images directly from the Victorian BDM website using credit card for about $AUD 20. https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/indexsearch.doj
If you think the birth of Ernest SOLOMON with parents John and Annie registered in 1890 (and found by bitzar) is a possibility then you could immediately download the birth image and get a lot more information. Perhaps it was a late registration or perhaps he was adopted in 1890 or ... ?
Otherwise it is usually advised to download the birth image of the youngest child which should include the births of all older children.
But yes it is still rather shakey ... some bits seem to fit and other bits don't. :(
Ros
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HI Mike, you will have heard from my nephew Chris Ferguson. I am your cousin Robert. We weren't sure if any of the family were still alive as our mum Joan Esdaile told us very little and all we knew was that Dad's (Herbert Emanuel Esdaile) brother's (Arthur Joseph Esdaile) family had emigrated in 1960 and we thought they had gone to Australia. It is good to know that you are still around and I would love to get in touch. Chris, who Is researching the family tree, has passed on some info about our branch of the family and I am happy to pass on what little I know.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Regards
Your Cousin Robert
Got your pm 2 messages to go before I can reply.
My Brother is Adrian & Sister is Ann. Both living Auckland and I am in Kerikeri and movong to Christchurch very soon.
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Hmmmmmm Ros, I'm doubting myself now!
Even John SOLOMON's headstone at Rookwood reads 'Erected by his wife and his daughters'... By the way the obit and the headstone read, it seems all the other children died young leaving the four daughters.
It also seems odd that Annie spent so many years in London, at least since the 1901 census, while John was not. Perhaps she was supporting her daughter's career's?!?!
bitzar.
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They family are probably connected in some way but no I don't think we have found the connection yet. It doesn't jell properly for me.
But we may still find it ... :)
Ros
And welcome to rootschat Robert :) Lovely to see the family reconnecting :)
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Chris
Do you know Ernest's Date of Birth in 1877?!?!
Is there anything on Ernest's marriage or death cert which may help us?!
It could be worthwhile trying to Contact or research The Melbourne Synagogue or at least what happened to their records. Maybe Ernest was baptised there?!
bitzar.
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By the way Bitzar you are right about the John SOLOMON obit in 1927 being for John SOLOMON junior and not senior. The fact that his widow and 2 daughters are in London and Miss Mabel SOLOMON, a daughter, cared for them, all point to John SOLOMON junior (who was married to Annie). The fact that he lived for 40 years with his mate in NZ was throwing me but yes that was about the time that Annie went off to London with her daughters. And the fact that his father on death index was not given as John SOLOMON.
But with only daughters mentioned, it still throws doubt on his being Ernest's father.
I have been looking for probates for those who died in NSW (as I can photograph them). There is John SOLOMON died 1927, and Michael POLLOCK 1927 and Kate POLLOCK 1923 (as they were childless there is a chance they left money to various nieces and nephews). Unfortunately these deaths are in the gap in the online probate index (1891-1927) so I will need to check microfiche when I get there. I haven't found what happened to Mabel SOLOMON yet - have you?
And by the way Kate POLLOCK's death entry gives same parents as her brother John SOLOMON i.e. father Solomon and mother Lydia. But their father should be John SOLOMON shouldn't it? Well maybe the earlier snippet about Stella's grandfather being John SOLOMON a prominent Hokitika citizen had the relationship wrong - should have said her father. Then this part of family falls into place (but doesn't seem to include Ernest).
Ros
adding : good thought about the baptism :)
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Thanks for everyone's help.
I will scan the marriage certificate of Ernest Solomon and Esther Windish.
Unfortunately I do not have a full date of birth for Ernest only birth year of 1877.
From the marriage certificate he was living at 22 Brushfield street,London Spitlafields with Esther living next door at number 24.
Jacob Solomon profession is noted as what looks like General Deals.
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Ros...
Im confident John and Kate's parents are Solomon and Lydia. Found them on the 1851. A male the right age for John is named Jonas, interesting..... Could be his brother or him! Havent found them on the 1841 yet.
Mabel has dissappeared! I thought she might of been in the big grave at Rookwood with her father, but no.
There seems to have been a lot of shipping between NZ and Australia for the family. At one stage in 1875-6, Mrs J Solomon and children was also with Mrs A Solomons (her mother).
Chris...
Is the name Jacob Solomon hand written?! Could it read anything else?!
bitzar.
ADD: Just spoke to The Melbourne Hebrew Congregation. Extremely helpful and they will get back to me.
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Ernest was a commercial traveller and fathers name give as Jacob Solomon
This is an interesting thread ;), but the only thing I can contribute at the moment is to note that on the 1911 census Ernest gives his occupation as hotel waiter.
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Can you scan the marriage certificate and post it here for us to see.
There is a probate record to find for Ernest SOLOMON AKA ESDAILE, d 1917.
Might be useful information to see.
London electors has Ernest ESDAILE at 138 Lower Kennington in 1911, 9 Montford 1913 / 14 / 15.
Always ESDAILE.
I agree, the probate could be useful?
I note also that Ernest was married with the name SOLOMON, and his children were registered with the name SOLOMON, even Herbert who was born after the 1911 census. (Which is why he changed his name by deed poll)
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The Synagogue staff just called back...
No other reference in their log's other than the 1868 marriage of John SOLOMON and Annie SOLOMONS. :-X
bitzar.
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Found on the 1841. Solomon SOLOMON transcribed as John SOLOMAN.
I think the son Jonas mentioned on the 1841 and 1851 is the John SOLOMON, d 1927.
Another edition of the SOLOMON / POLLOCK obit:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/184225860?searchTerm=john%20solomon%20pollock&searchLimits=dateFrom=1927-01-01|||dateTo=1927-12-31
GOULSTON is the married name of John's other sister Martha. She also died at Glebe in 1921. Martha is also mentioned on the 1841 and 1851.
Still 'what if', I know.
bitzar.
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I was thinking that the John HOLLAND SOLOMON who died in 1927 (as an old citizen of Hokitika) was the grandfather of Stella so father of John HOLLAND SOLOMON who fathered Stella and Florence. I think his age of 95/6 allows that at a push.
But the obit only mentions 4 daughters ... :(
adding : but yes it fits in other ways so perhaps the obit missed some family
I think the Stella referred to as grand daughter of John SOLOMON is actually Florence's daughter - Stella Tapperell PACK born reg 1897 in Melbourne. (She is the Stella on the 1901 census).
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Good thinking Maddy :)
But the snippet does say Stella Esdaile rather than Stella PACK. But yes Stella Pack is an actress at age 14 around 1910'ish. But I think Stella ESDAILE won the Silver medal ... mentioned elsewhere ...well could be wrong.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ldi/
Ros
I'm guessing the reporter was as confused as I am ;D
adding : Here it says Stella ESDAILE won the bronze medal for singing at the Royal College of Music in 1914 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article10799007
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Just in case they are related ....
A lovely photo of Stella Esdaile http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article146178749 and of Florence Esdaile
https://trove.nla.gov.au/work/168798849
Ros
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They're lovely aren't they. Here's another of Stella from 1898 in the "Melbourne Punch" 5 May 1898, p390. And a bio of Florence from 1897 in the "The Era" 24 July 1897, p17
Though I still can't see how/if they are related to Ernest ?
I was wondering ... Florence and Mabel are old enough to have given birth to the Ernest in 1890, although I know it says Annie and John as parents on the Vic BDM index. I think it would be interesting to see that birth cert. Though again, if he was born in 1890 that seems too big a difference to be the Ernest who appears in England born c1877. ???
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Trying to locate the 1890 Ernest SOLOMON.
There is no Ernest SOLOMON or ESDAILE buried at Melbourne General Cemetery or St Kilda Cemetery.
Still considering reply 15 and 18?!
Also Wivenhoe asked about the 1904 marriage witnesses. This is def a must know!
bitzar.
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unfortunately the scan of the marriage cert is too large at 875kb.
is there any way around this ?
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Hi Chris
You can use irfanview. Free download. Instructions are inphototographic section - tips and tutorials- Resizing images
Sorry out with just my phone or would givelink
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Here is the marriage certificate for Ernest Solomon and Ester Windish.
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Right...
In 1911, Annie ESDAILE states she has had 8 children and 6 of those are still living.
1. SOLOMON, Sarah Lydia Victoria. Born Melbourne 1869, died Auckland 1871.
2. SOLOMON, Abraham Charles. Born NZ 1871, died NZ 1872.
3. SOLOMON, Florence. Born NZ 1872. Was still alive in 1938. Mrs PACK.
4. SOLOMON, Mabel. Born South Melbourne 1873. She was still in Sydney in 1927 when her father died.
5. SOLOMON, Harold. Born NZ 1875. Did arrive in Australia in 1876.
6. SOLOMON, Estelle (Stella). Born Collingwood 1877. Was still alive in NZ in 1938. Mrs ROTHENBERG.
7. SOLOMON, Violet. Born Fitzroy. Was with her mother on the 1901, London.
8. SOLOMON, Ernest. Born Collingwood 1890.
bitzar.
EDIT: Violet SOLOMON married Herbert CARTER in 1910. They were neighbours on the 1901. In Liverpool in 1911.
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Found out a little bit more.
Ernest Solomon died 21/10/1917.
On probate search it notes "Solomon Ernest otherwise Esdaile Ernest otherwise Esdaile Ernest Solomon of 19 montford place,Kennington,Surrey,died 21st October 1917 administration (with will) London.21 November to Hetty Solomon Widow.Effects £306 5s 6D.
Would a copy of the will give more information about Ernest ?
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Hopefully the will or the administration should give details about why he was known by 2 different names.
The probate packets here in N.S.W *should* contain a will, a death cert, details of heirs and their relationship and assets. Occasionally they contain more certs and documentation - when there are likely to be doubts or questions. One I photographed the other day had 10 certificates - 2 marriages, death of first wife, births of children etc and other documentation - but this is uncommon.
Ros
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Thanks Ros.
I have ordered a copy which should be available to download by 8th Feb.
Fingers crossed it will give me some more leads to follow.
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Yes fingers crossed Chris :)
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One I photographed the other day had 10 certificates - 2 marriages, death of first wife, births of children etc and other documentation - but this is uncommon.
Ros
Can't help commenting here ;D though not helping the query at all.......
BUT, what a treasure trove! :) :)
Sue
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Yes I describe the probate packets as a lucky dip Sue :) Sometimes they are so full of info and certs but other times not so much at all. But definitely worth a try :)
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Would anyone have access to London newspapers.
Maybe there is a death/funeral announcement for:
Florence PACK. Died 24 May 1960
Violet CARTER. Died 26 Mar 1957
Ernest SOLOMON / ESDAILE. Died 21 Oct 1917.
and New Zealand newspapers for
Estelle ROTHENBERG. Died Oct 1963 at Wellington.
Maybe some family info can be found there....
bitzar.
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I have looked at British Library Newspapers with no success.
I'm assuming this is Ernest's wife: Hettie ESDAILE death reg Jun 1921 (age 40) at Hackney (1b/392)
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Yes that is the wife of Ernest Esdaile.
My grandfather would have been oprphaned by the age of 10.
I do know that in 1939 he was living with an Aunt Jessie Windish but not sure if all 3 children went to live with her or went to seperate families.
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Doesn't help with finding Ernest, however I did find another article about the Stella ESDAILE who is described as grandaughter to John SOLOMON - she was 17 in 1913, so I think it at least this reporter got it right and she was the daughter of Florence in this instance.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/GEST19131205.2.12?query=stella%20esdaile
Again, doesn't really help but there is also this mention of Stella ESDAILE recuperating in NZ in 1908, "niece of Mrs M Nathan of the Te Aro Hotel"
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/DOM19080514.2.39?query=stella%20esdaile
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Good find Maddy :) I doubted that Stella PACK could take on stage name of Stella ESDAILE as it would be too confusing. But I was wrong :-[
Ros
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I think you are right too Ros, and both Stella's were apparently quite successful - what a musical family. There is also this intriguing mention of a young Harold SOLOMON - possibly the brother, though again, there are others of this name in Victoria.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article208560825 (in the Cast List for "The Silver King"
Not sure how Morry NATHAN (NZ) is related to Stella ESDAILE, might have a look tomorrow. Still not really sure they are related to Ernest and Hettie ...
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Fantastic find re Harold SOLOMON.
So, Morry NATHAN was the husband of Kate SOLOMONS. Kate and Annie were sisters. Annie being Estelle's (Stella) mother. The NATHAN's ended up back in Melbourne, they died there.
bitzar.
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Whilst waiting for the will of Ernest Solomon I have found out more information regards Annie May Solomon his daughter and my grandfathers sister.
She was born 23/04/1904
She married a Walter Wingrave in 1926
On the 1939 register they are living at 134 Braybrooke Road Hastings., Sussex
They had a daughter Miriam V J Wingrave born in 1930 -
Miriam Wingrave married a Derek Goldman in 1956.
Not sure if Miriam is still alive as she would be 88 years old.
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Attached is the Will for Ernest Solomon.
Apart from confirming he was known by 3 different names it unfortunately does not give much further detail about him.
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Oh Chris that is so disappointing.
I am surprised that the administration was so perfunctory... Even an average probate packet here is about 20 pages of info (some useful, some with clues etc)
I’m sorry I gave you false hopes about it
Ros
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Chris
He HAS to be related to the other ESDAILE's, doesnt he!
It could be well worthwhile purchasing the BC of Ernest SOLOMON 1890 with immediate download.
https://www.bdm.vic.gov.au
If Ernest has a gravestone, does that give any info we could use?!
Do you know why some of his family went to NZ in the 1960's?!
bitzar.
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Such a shame there was nothing further in the probate. I wonder if the names of the witnesses to the will might hold any clues? One is obviously a doctor, the other - Frances Russell ?
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Clutching at straws a bit now.
I have found an assisted immigration record for an Ernest Solomon born 1877 leaving the uk and heading to australia.
I have also found a trade union membership record from 1911 for E Esdaile resigning and reason given "australia".
Not sure if they relate to the same ernest esdaile\ernest solomon.
Wonder if he regularly travelled to Australia as the amount he left in his will was quite substantial at only 40 years old.
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I have found an assisted immigration record for an Ernest Solomon born 1877 leaving the uk and heading to australia.
I have also found a trade union membership record from 1911 for E Esdaile resigning and reason given "australia".
I n which year was the Ernest SOLOMON leaving the uk and heading to Australia?
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I see the Mr E ESDAILE who arrived on the Mamora on 10 Oct 1911 was a miner and British.
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=9870193
(half-way down page 4)
No mention of age.
Ros
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Just reading back and the 1887 immigration to queensland has been discounted.
My ernest esdaile was a hotel waiter.
I havent been able to find any birth records in Australia for either an ernest esdaile or Ernest Solomon.
There is also the mystery of why he was known by 3 different surnames as per the will.
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Chris...
What do you mean... Ernest SOLOMON, born Collingwood, Melbourne, Australia 1890 to the same parents as Stella and Florence who were ALSO using the ESDAILE alias...... I know the year is out BUT its too much of a co incidence especially when nothing can be found of the 1890 Ernest!
bitzar.
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I'm thinking there may well be something here too many co-incidences.
Looking at both the 1901 and 1911 cenus for Annie esdaile and her family the address is very close to kennington.
There is the solomon-esdaile link.
There is no mention of Ernest Solomon on either the 1901 or 1911 census with Annie Esdaile\florences family - if he was born in 1890 he would have been only 11 in 1901 and surely would have still been with his family ?
Im wondering now if this is his family he was born in 1877 but for some reason his birth wasnt registered until 1890 ?
Assuming they are 2 different ernest solomons currently :
1890 Ernest Solomon - no records so far past his birth record.
"my" 1877 ernest solomon no records before his marriage in 1904.
Need to see if i can find anyting more on the 1890 ernest to rule him out.
Assuming they are one in the same agree with your theories - either his birth was wrongly registered or he married at 14 and lied about his age - Esther was 22 so not outside the realms of possibility although that would mean he was only 27 when he died
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Think I might have found the missing link.
I have found a birth entry for an Ernest Solomons in Victoria Australia from 1876.
It has the same registry number as the entry for Ernest Solomon in 1890 and the same parents ?
Would the registry numbers be the same for any other reason apart from it being the same person ?
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Fantastic Chris :). Well done :)
Yes the same registration number means it is the same person.
And kudus to bitzar for being so right all along :)
Ros
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That's great :D, interested to see why there's a registration in 1890. I wonder why it doesn't come up on a search in Victoria BDM, but it does on findmypast?
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I am wondering as John Solomon married Annie Solomons prehaps there was some confusion and the birth was originally registered under his mum's name and then corrected in 1890 to his fathers name ?
Thanks everyone for your help as it has been invaluable.
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Yes it is strange Maddy ??? I did look for an earlier birth for SOLOMON* on Victorian BDM (in case Ernest was born before marriage or a typo or whatever)
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I'm hoping to get to NSW Archives Office very soon Chris so I can check if there is a probate for John SOLOMON died 1927, or the POLLOCKS or even Annie ESDAILE/SOLOMON. Perhaps there will be some more clues in there (if there are some probates).
(corrected ;D )
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My theory was correct the birth was re-registered in 1890 due to errors on the original record relating to the confusion on the surnames.
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Abraham SOLOMONS, financier, of Spring St, died in 1893. (the grandfather on birth certificate)
Vic BDM death
1893 Abraham SOLOMONS, father and mother unknown, age 65, Place of death Melbourne East
Some death notices http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article221781596, http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article221781596
His will and administration are available free online
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lie/
Ros
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Congrataulations Chris
and everyone who has worked so hard on this...
Chris, I expect a trip to Holland is on the cards for you, haha! I thought it may turn out this way and I've gone a fair bit of research. It seems most lines come from Holland.
Also, make sure you watch the edisode of WDYTYA with June Brown. It could be interesting to you moving forward. You should be able to find it on YouTube.
I will probs be in town tomorrow and I'll try to get a pic of 8 Gertrude Street. It's an old area of Melbourne, Melbourne's first suburb actually. I used to live in Fitzroy and know the area well.
bitzar.
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Chris and team
Some pics from today of 8 Gertrude St, Fitzroy. I'm not sure when these Terrace's were built though?!?!?!
bitzar.
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Grave of Abraham and Esther SOLOMONS nee MOSES at Melbourne General Cemetery in Carlton. Ernest ESDAILE's grandparents, and Annie's parents.
bitzar.
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Well done bitzar :) Lovely pics :)
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That was so generous of you bitzar to photograph those places! Well done.
I'm no expert on Melbourne architecture, but in Sydney I would think those terraces could be 1880s, maybe earlier as they're quite unadorned, but it's hard to tell as they may have been "stripped back" over the years. ;)
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Thank you Bitzar very kind of you.
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Just come back into this after our move to Christchurch. Wow some amazing developments. A thank you from me also.
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I don't think we've found Mabel or Harold yet?!?!
bitzar.
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Solomon in Hokitika NZ
Found this reference
http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-GolHist-t1-body1-d15.html
"The only Hebrew tuition which the Hokitika children received was that given by John Solomon after synagogue worship on Saturday mornings" & another reference furtherdown
Mike
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That is a fascinating find Mike.
I note it also mentions John Solomon sold groceries and provisions.
On the marriage certificate I have for Ernest Solomon and Esther Windish it notes Ernest's fathers profession as "General Deals"
So it appears the solomons left London and headed to New Zealand to follow the Gold Rush which didnt last and then we can guess the family headed back to London to start a new life\careers.
I notice it also makes mention of their only being 5 or 6 jewish familes left by the end of the century including pollock and solomon.