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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: ccaufield on Tuesday 23 January 18 19:23 GMT (UK)

Title: Help with town of birth
Post by: ccaufield on Tuesday 23 January 18 19:23 GMT (UK): Hello All,

I am having a hard time deciphering the name of the town Olaf Halvorson was born. It looks like Hasbook or Harbook Norway, but no such place exists. There is a Hasvik ( similar sound), might that be it? I would be very grateful any help with this, thank-you!!
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: Primrose11 on Tuesday 23 January 18 19:49 GMT (UK): If read it as Harbook as well, but I wonder if it was an anglicised spelling of Harbak in Norway.
P
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: Treetotal on Tuesday 23 January 18 22:38 GMT (UK): I see Harbrook too.
Carol
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Tuesday 23 January 18 23:51 GMT (UK): There is also "Holmsbu" which had town status between 1847 and 1964.

Malky
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: jamcat95 on Wednesday 24 January 18 00:08 GMT (UK): Hi
There are 2 places which vaguely sound alike which may have been wrongly spellt and anglicized:

Hardbakke
Hulebakk

Can you give a link to the census please.

Ian
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: jamcat95 on Wednesday 24 January 18 00:26 GMT (UK): Quote from: Primrose11 on Tuesday 23 January 18 19:49 GMT (UK)
If read it as Harbook as well, but I wonder if it was an anglicised spelling of Harbak in Norway.

Missed this one. Could be this too of course.
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: ccaufield on Wednesday 24 January 18 02:21 GMT (UK): Hi All,

Yes, I'm struggling too. I think the third letter may actually be an 's'. Even more frustrating, I'm pretty sure I figured it out a few months back and forgot to write it down!

Here's the link the census in ancestry - not sure if anyone can follow it? https://www.ancestry.ca/interactive/1344/30928_2000913123-00070/2602222?backurl=https://www.ancestry.ca/family-tree/person/tree/117280049/person/170164554797/facts/citation/640393186388/edit/record (https://www.ancestry.ca/interactive/1344/30928_2000913123-00070/2602222?backurl=https://www.ancestry.ca/family-tree/person/tree/117280049/person/170164554797/facts/citation/640393186388/edit/record)
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: jamcat95 on Wednesday 24 January 18 06:43 GMT (UK): Hi
Sorry but I don't have a subscription for the time being. Can you give a year and country instead also any other info on Olaf. I'll see if I can find anything in Norway for you.

Ian
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: ccaufield on Thursday 25 January 18 15:08 GMT (UK): Hi there,

Thank-you so much for the help! I find the Norwegian patronymic naming very hard to navigate.

The document above is the Border crossing from USA to Canada on April 23rd, 1926. He is listed as 50 at this time (which puts his birth date at 1876), I think this is an error, all other records point to a birth year of 1870, but know the record is him, as it lists both of his children.

I have a baptism record which may be for my Grandfather (found on ancestry)- for an Olaf Halvorsen ( with the 'e') for 26 FEB 1870 in Lista, Vest-Agder, Norway with an Andreas Halversen and Kari Olsdr listed as parents. This date matches written family history - which indicates he died in 1952 at the age of 82 ( giving a birth year of about 1870). The 1900 & 1910 US federal census also supports a birthdate of February 1870.

I have a document indicating his arrival from Norway on May 10th 1896 to the port of Levis QC - it lists the correct spouse (Inga), and shows last know city as Skien, Norway. This document also indicates that he is going to Park River ND, which written family history indicates was his first landed location. This document has a column to indicate where the immigrant is going, and there is a note about " Father Andreas Halvorson" and what I think says " 8 years in Park River", but the writing is hard to decipher. I can't find any mention of an Andreas Halvorson in Park City.

Written family history indicates that Olaf/Ole was married on August 20th 1893 to Inga Nelson. They had twins in Norway who died as infants in Norway. They arrived to North America in 1895. They had two sons Arnold Norman (1897) and Hjalmer (1905). Inga died in 1919 - I can find no record of her aside from after coming to the US.

I have found one 1875 record that might be Olaf, correct mothers name ( if the baptism record is actually him), with a Halvor for a father - http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1875&knr=0426&kenr=012&bnr=0020&lnr=00 (http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1875&knr=0426&kenr=012&bnr=0020&lnr=00)
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 26 January 18 11:54 GMT (UK): Hi

I have managed to find the info you need. You had found the correct Olaf birth. There is no evidence of twins. I could only find 1 birth.
Olaf was recorded as a carpenter and his father Anders/Andreas was a school teacher.

Olaf Halvorsen's birth - 2 Aug 1870 in Vanse (Lista) Parish: https://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20060102010525.jpg
Inga Olava Nilsen's birth - 18 Oct 1872 in Porsgrunn Parish: https://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20051006020739.jpg
Olaf Halvorsen and Inga Nilsen's marriage - 20 Aug 1893 in Gjerpen Parish: https://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20060612030531.jpg

Olaf Halvorsen and Inga Nilsen's daughter Anna's birth - 10 Nov 1893 in Skien Parish: https://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20051003040067.jpg
Anna Halvorsen's death - 12 Jan 1894 in Skien Parish: https://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20051003040315.jpg

Anders Halvorsen and Karen Olsdatter - 1865 Census in Vanse (Lista) Parish: https://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-ft20090730610401.jpg
Anders Halvorsen and Karen Olsdatter's marriage - 9 July 1863 in Gjerpen Parish: http://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20051011011100.jpg
Halvor Andersen (Olaf Halvorsen's brother) - 9 Oct 1863 in Gjerpen Parish: http://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20051011010897.jpg

Anders Halvorsen's birth - 28 May 1844 in Bø Parish: http://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20051011050141.jpg

This is where I got all the records from: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/kb/browse

Ian
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: ccaufield on Friday 26 January 18 14:46 GMT (UK): Oh my goodness, thank-you so, so much for gifting your time to find this information! It would have taken me ages to locate these, I would have first had to learn how to understand & search the parish registers, and then I would have had to figure out how to read & understand them!

We did not know of any siblings of Olaf, so it's very interesting to find one! It looks like he was born just a few months after marriage, I wonder if that was common.

Again, thank-you so, so much. As I get better at this research I hope to pay forward the favour one day!

Warmest, Callandra
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 26 January 18 14:48 GMT (UK): Hi
You're welcome Callandra.
If you want help or anything else just ask.

Ian
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 26 January 18 21:39 GMT (UK): I took a look for more of Olaf's siblings and found only 1 more:

Gunhild - 7 Jan 1867 in Vanse Parish: https://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20060102010497.jpg

Ian
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: ccaufield on Friday 26 January 18 21:53 GMT (UK): Thank-you! Lol, I don't know how you find these things!

What I am finding interesting is that their first son followed typical naming traditions - Halver was likely Andreas Fathers name, and his last name was Andersen. However Olaf should have also been Andersen, but he took the same last name of his father, Halvorson. Do you think Gunhild would have been Halvorson or Andersen? Also, can you tell me what that long list of names is in the final column of the document?
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 26 January 18 21:57 GMT (UK): The list is the name of the godparents.

In Sweden the names followed the patronymic system but I have noticed in Norway that it sometimes does sometimes doesn't. It looks as though the minister decided. So Gunhild could also have been Halvorsdatter or Andersdatter.

Ian
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 26 January 18 22:03 GMT (UK): Quote from: ccaufield on Friday 26 January 18 21:53 GMT (UK)
Thank-you! Lol, I don't know how you find these things!

A good eye is required and patience....lol
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 26 January 18 23:10 GMT (UK): I couldn't help myself.....

Here is Olaf and family in the 1875 census in Gjerpen Parish in Telemark:
https://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-ft20110221340315.jpg

Ian
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: jamcat95 on Saturday 27 January 18 11:02 GMT (UK): Hi
According to the 1875 census there doesn't seem to be any more siblings to be had and I couldn't find anymore.
I have found though Halvor and Gunhild's census records for 1900 and 1910.
All 4 are from Solum Parish in Telemark.

Halvor
1900: https://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-ft20090828330440.jpg
1910: http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1910&knr=0818&kenr=01b&bnr=0083&lnr=00

Gunhild
1900: https://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-ft20090828330444.jpg
1910: http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1910&knr=0818&kenr=01b&bnr=0050&lnr=00

It looks as though Halvor and Gunhild were neighbours as the pages came after each other.

I am also trying to locate Anders and Karen without success unfortunately. I would like though to see the Olaf's passenger record stating father Anders if possible.

Ian
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: jamcat95 on Saturday 27 January 18 13:34 GMT (UK): I took a look myself and found this passenger list but no mention of a father Anders. Is there another record elsewhere?

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lez/

Ian
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: ccaufield on Saturday 27 January 18 14:40 GMT (UK): Hello!

Wow, the whole mystery is just unfolding! It's exciting to think we may still have relatives in Norway.

I have uploaded the record to my google drive, you should be able to access it with this link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UixTRK0x9Rx2e0nW0m3v6jOiZna1gd-D/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UixTRK0x9Rx2e0nW0m3v6jOiZna1gd-D/view?usp=sharing)

I do wonder if Andreas went first to North Dakota?
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: jamcat95 on Saturday 27 January 18 14:46 GMT (UK): Hi
Thanks.
Yes it does say 8 years in US.
This is probably why I haven't been able to find him in Norway.
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: jamcat95 on Wednesday 31 January 18 23:59 GMT (UK): Hi

I am very curious to the whereabouts of Anders Halvorsen and Karen Olsdatter, so I thought I would see when they were around. I am presuming the names listed were present at the time:

1884 5 Oct - Olaf Halvorsen's confirmation: https://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20061129010249.jpg - nr 15.
Both Anders and Kari recorded.

Hans Carlsen Family
1887 23 Sept in Gjerpen - Karen Carlsen's birth: https://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20061108340072.jpg
Only Kari recorded.

1890 2 Oct in Gjerpen - Karl Alexander Carlsen: https://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20060518040132.jpg
Neither

1892 25 Dec in Gjerpen - Astrid Hilgunda Carlsen: https://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20051003040054.jpg
Neither

Halvor Halvorsen Family
1887 4 Apr - in Skien - Aslaug Halvorsen's birth: https://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20061130020093.jpg
Only Anders recorded.

1888 30 Sept in Solum - Karen Halvorsen: https://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20061128340081.jpg
Neither

1891 Feb - in Solum - Synnove Halvorsen: https://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20061128340091.jpg
Neither

1893 29 Mar - in Solum - Dagfin Halvorsen: https://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20051003030006.jpg
Neither

1895 14 June - in Solum - Anders Bjarne Halvorsen : https://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20051003030018.jpg
Neither

1897 20 July - in Solum - Karl Halfdan Sand Halvorsen: https://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20051003030032.jpg
Neither

There seems to be no sign of them after 1887.

Ian
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: ccaufield on Thursday 01 February 18 15:16 GMT (UK): Ian! You need to teach a class on researching Norwegian family history!

So my guess is they immigrated to North America, I am also guessing they changed the spelling of their names or it was misspelled - I can't find any record of them in North America or Park River ND, although I haven't looked that hard yet! I guess it's time to try!
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 02 February 18 00:14 GMT (UK): Quote from: ccaufield on Thursday 01 February 18 15:16 GMT (UK)
Ian! You need to teach a class on researching Norwegian family history!

So my guess is they immigrated to North America, I am also guessing they changed the spelling of their names or it was misspelled - I can't find any record of them in North America or Park River ND, although I haven't looked that hard yet! I guess it's time to try!

Hi
I feel more at home with Sweden but anywhere in Scandinavia is not a problem. Cheers.

I took a look for you and found this. Could be something. You'll have to log in to FamilySearch to see the record from North Dakota.
Here is Karen Halvorsen (Olsdatter)'s birth record born 16 Nov 1835 in Bø Parish:
http://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20051011050054.jpg - nr 2 at the bottom.
The record on FamilySearch is a death record from 21 Oct 1895 of a Karen Halvorson born 11 Nov 1835, and is from Grafton, Walsh County in N. Dakota. Just 5 days difference.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVKW-VY55

Ian
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 02 February 18 10:11 GMT (UK): Just a thought...
I did wonder why only Olaf's father was mentioned on the passenger list. At first I thought it was only his father who had moved to USA.
Perhaps the Karen from the previous post was Karen Olsdatter and this is why Olaf went over as it was only 6 months between her death and him arriving in USA.

Ian
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 02 February 18 10:56 GMT (UK): Just saw this from the same record from the previous post on FamilySearch. Looks promising:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/34513913

The inscription on the headstone: b. Telemarken Norge. (Telemark Norway).

Ian
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 02 February 18 14:57 GMT (UK): Hi

Just digging around and found these. You probably already have these:

Inga Halvorson's grave stone: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/131385520/inga-o.-halvorson

1900 Census: http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lgl/

1910 Census: http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lgk/

1920 Census: http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lgm/
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: brigidmac on Friday 02 February 18 15:48 GMT (UK): Regarding the place name I read it as Harbrook too

I've only heard of Harvik

I wonder if any place names changed when the Norwegian language s merged ....?

I studied in Norway in 1901 and there were 2 official languages Bokmal which was closer to Danish and Nynorsk which was more rural ....there wasn't much difference between them i thought of it like British and American English but every spell change was contested because it was a big identity issue
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 02 February 18 16:03 GMT (UK): The funny thing is that I have looked for this place in Telemark but have not been successful.
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: CarolA3 on Friday 02 February 18 17:07 GMT (UK): Quote from: brigidmac on Friday 02 February 18 15:48 GMT (UK)
I studied in Norway in 1901 .....................

:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: jamcat95 on Sunday 04 February 18 11:02 GMT (UK): Hi

I have found Anders' passenger record to Grafton North Dakota from Oslo. He left on 12 July 1889 on the SS Angelo.
https://digitalarkivet.no/view/8/pe00000000022617

The thing is though I cannot find his arrival either in Canada or USA.
This page shows the SS Angelo's corresponding ships leaving either Liverpool or Glasgow to Canada and USA:
http://www.norwayheritage.com/t_corresp.asp?id=2507

Perhaps you may have better luck. Ancestry might be useful I think.

Ian
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 05 February 18 10:05 GMT (UK): When did borders change ?
You may find that the town you referenced is now in Denmark or Sweden
Worth searching border town's there .

Carol e I studied linguistics and we had to choose a language not on school curriculum s
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: CarolA3 on Monday 05 February 18 10:17 GMT (UK): Quote from: brigidmac on Monday 05 February 18 10:05 GMT (UK)
Carol I studied linguistics and we had to choose a language not on school curriculum

So did I - mine was Swedish - but what surprised me was the date you gave. I should have been clearer :)

Carol
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: ccaufield on Thursday 08 February 18 22:42 GMT (UK): Jamcat - I wonder if he was using a different last name? I can't find a single thing for an Andreas, Anders, Andre Halvorson on Ancestry. I will get in touch with the library in Grafton, I wonder if they have any genealogical records? It's so odd that he just ceases to exist...

I also just found a record for Karen Halvorson, also going to Grafton, but in 1884. Might just be someone with the same name? https://digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8/pe00000000016966# (https://digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8/pe00000000016966#)
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 09 February 18 08:36 GMT (UK): Hi
I'm sorry to say but this isn't her. Your Karen was born in 1835 so she would have been around 50 years old at this time.
She was also a witness to her grandchild's christening in 1887.

Ian
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: brigidmac on Friday 09 February 18 11:27 GMT (UK): Ha ha only just seen my mistake iam of course a time traveller who enters my great grandaughters world whe i can ..we dreAm about each other and get confused

B STUDIED in 1980 ish
Title: Re: Help with town of birth
Post by: jamcat95 on Saturday 10 February 18 16:46 GMT (UK): Hi

Coming back to the original question about the name of the place I noticed that they were living in Dalen, Laardal not far from Skien in 1894. After looking around in the census books etc I found a place called Haatveit (Håtveit today).
Looking at the name on the record it looks as though it says "Harbook or Harl_ook" but it could be a very badly written and spelled version of Haatveit.

This is the name back in 1895....

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