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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: panda40 on Thursday 25 January 18 08:46 GMT (UK)
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Just read this interesting article in today’s Daily Mail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5308427/Why-mothers-duty-clutter-home.html
I wondered what others thought? It might explain why all those treasured photos get thrown away before someone else goes looking for them.
Personally I have emptied my grandparents and parents houses following their deaths. It is not a plea sent task but at least we could decide as a family what to keep and what to throw away.
Regards panda
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I would say it is a very hard task. I decided that I could no longer stay in my large house so am in the process of decluttering and getting rid of stuff. I am now being more forceful with disposing of stuff that belonged to my parents, still hard. Son came and helped me in the end, he doesn't have the emotional attachment I do.
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I have had to empty two houses of relatives after deaths and it is a difficult task but made more difficult by not knowing
- who is in the photographs that were kept
- why some things are kept, wrapped and secure and obviously treasured
- where some items came from
Also some things disintegrated when I opened them because of how they were kept.
It made me consider what I have kept myself and ask, if I died suddenly would anyone know what this is and why I kept it!
I have started writing little descriptions and placing with some things and disposing of other items.
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I am fortunate not to have experienced this yet but I would imagine many family members find a great deal of comfort in going through the Left Behind treasures of deceased relatives.
And one man's junk is another man's treasure.
Martin
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The article sounds ruthless. How much decluttering can you do before you are sitting in an empty house aged around 100 ;D
There are various reasons for having to get rid of stuff over the period of a lifetime. Like Nanna52 says if you are having to move to a smaller house.
To clinically go through your treasured possessions just to save the kids/grandkids the job is definitely not something I would ever consider doing. It would be like clearing my brain of all its memories.
It is a heartbreaking task to have to do after a loved one dies but it can also help you to deal with your grief.
I have had to do it on a couple of occassions myself.
Dorrie
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While not anticipating my early demise, I'm determined to get the whole house de-cluttered over the next few years so my children don't have so much to do when the time comes. My big job this year is to 'sort out' 40 years' worth of junk in the loft. I thought I'd done it about 15 years ago, but most of the things I kept then have never seen the light of day since, so they are hardly 'treasured' . . . and someone has been putting more stuff up there since that time that should really have been thrown away ::) :-[
It all started when I decided to upgrade the loft insulation, but the sorting and clearing is going to take ten times longer than the insulating :(
I won't be throwing out any family heirlooms or anything of historic interest :)
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Just read this interesting article in today’s Daily Mail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5308427/Why-mothers-duty-clutter-home.html
I wondered what others thought? It might explain why all those treasured photos get thrown away before someone else goes looking for them.
Personally I have emptied my grandparents and parents houses following their deaths. It is not a plea sent task but at least we could decide as a family what to keep and what to throw away.
Regards panda
Reading those stories in the newspaper link made me feel so sad for those disconnected families, it seems they really had no understand of their parents and ancestors.
Yes I agree with the basic thrust of the story about getting rid of the amassed detritus of everyday life but the accounts seem to show a disconnect between the parents and children and a lack of understanding why an object was kept in the family.
Yes get rid of the rubbish of everyday life but surely family life should mean involving your children with your life. Sharing why something brings memories and sharing those memories (good or bad).
For example I have a riding crop with a lash attached and a whip both owned by my mother when she was younger and both have deep meaning for me.
The crop has a horn handle and lash allowing the rider to open gates while on horseback, but I spent many hours using it as a bull-whip and making it crack etc.
My memory of the whip was different but even more important to me.
The whip is a light, thin leather whip with a spring steel core; it was gently used when out riding to encourage the horse.
However on one occasion it was used on me.
I and my siblings were brought up by my mother after my dad left us when I was about 5 and as the I grew up like all adolescent boys I explored the boundaries of behaviour. On one occasion I really overstepped the mark and was chastised by being hit three times on the back of my legs with that whip. I knew I deserved it and never repeated the behaviour, but I also realised that my mum used that whip not to hurt me or in anger but because she loved me.
This may sound strange to some but is true all the same; if she had not used such drastic action my life could, and possibly would have taken a very different route.
So, yes get rid of the rubbish but talk to your children (and their spouses) about your memories and the story behind the various objects handed down and what they actually mean to the family history.
The rubbish may not really be rubbish.
Cheers
Guy
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My mum, who is 90 this year, has been doing this gradually over the last few years. She always checks with us before she disposes of anything that she thinks one or other of us might want and she and I have been working through old photos together, putting names on the back of them ( though sadly even she doesn't know who all the people are).She feels happy knowing that she is not going to leave us with an enormous and difficult task and it has kept her active. i have to admit that I have taken some things which I will eventually dispose of as I could see she was struggling to make a decision on them herself. Her house is by no means empty, but she is now surrounded by the things that mean something to her and the family and that makes her happy.
Isobel
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I am the member of the family that has the original photos, letters and other family documents some going back to early 1800’s. Sadly there does not appear to be anyone in the next generation who has any interest in taking on this responsibility and preserving the originals. Hopefully I am not going to meet my maker soon but would like to know where they are going to. I would like to pass these on to someone who will keep the family history going. My sister has the ornamental dressing table sets from the great grandmothers on display in her house. These will pass down to her eldest daughter on her death as has been the case for many generations. I hope they will then go to my great niece and the tradition can be kept up.
Regards panda
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It would be wonderful if every ancestor and relative we had would make sure that clearly in pencil, when they got the little paper envelope of prints and negatives back from the film processors, they wrote on the back of each and every photograph the full and proper names of the subjects, the dates, the occasion, - even the place it was taken...
Ah well, I can dream, can't I? I have a large cardboard folder and a tin full of unknowns dating way back when, and I simply can't "dispose" of them... just in case I ever manage to find who they are. I have scanned most of them onto my p.c., but will they even be "readable" a few machine generations on? (Remember the "Domesday Project", and "Betamax"?)
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I've got a drawer full of USB drives in much the same state, and you can't even see the pictures until you insert the drive. I've started tying big yellow luggage tags on to each one, duly annotated. The only other option is to have a database listing what is on each drive. They are all backups, the data is also on the hard drive and on DVDs and on cloud drives.
Martin
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It would be wonderful if every ancestor and relative we had would make sure that clearly in pencil, when they got the little paper envelope of prints and negatives back from the film processors, they wrote on the back of each and every photograph the full and proper names of the subjects, the dates, the occasion, - even the place it was taken...
Ah well, I can dream, can't I? I have a large cardboard folder and a tin full of unknowns dating way back when, and I simply can't "dispose" of them... just in case I ever manage to find who they are. I have scanned most of them onto my p.c., but will they even be "readable" a few machine generations on? (Remember the "Domesday Project", and "Betamax"?)
May I suggest you don’t write in pencil on the back of photos, not only can this damage the face of the photo but also the writing can easily be erased by rubbing over time.
Instead scan the photo, or if it is already a digital image enlarge the “paper” and add a key or information to the photo below.
An extreme example may be seen here
http://www.anguline.co.uk/Ryder_Family.jpg
A simpler example would just show the name of an individual in the photo.
Cheers
Guy
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While, in principle, I agree with Guy about writing on photos, I have seen many old ones with notes on the back in pencil which have not damaged the image in any way. I would suggest that a soft pencil is far safer than any sort of pen and, if they are stored in a box they are unlikely to be rubbed often enough to erase the writing. Obviously you shouldn't be too ham-fisted about it ::)
Surely it is better to identify them in this way than not at all. Many people do not have a scanner, many do not have the time to go through possibly hundreds of photos using Guy's technique, excellent though it is.
If they are a valuable family record, the best practice would be to store them in archive quality albums with notes written either on the page or on a separate sheet of paper slipped in the pocket behind the picture. But again many of us do not have the time to follow best practice.
Mike.
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May I suggest you don’t write in pencil on the back of photos, not only can this damage the face of the photo but also the writing can easily be erased by rubbing over time.
Most sites that talk about writing on the back of old photos recommend using a soft lead pencil and pressing lightly. I have some photos that my grandparents labelled in this way over 100 years ago and the writing is still very clear.
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Well ... that newspaper article expresses one point of view. It's not mine. And I have had to singlehandedly clear out two homes of deceased family.
Someone in an earlier post mentioned "disconnected families" and I think that phrase fits like a glove. Disconnected families who don't want to deal with emotions, just wait for the lawyer to hand them their cheques.
Yes, it was a difficult and emotional job, but I took joy in it - the last actual service I could render my beloved family - and was flattened when it was all done. And so very many times while I was sorting and making piles, I felt so very close to them. Happy memories came back. That's part of what made it take so long - I'd pick up something and just sit in the chair for a while remembering.
Grief is individual. Coping mechanisms that work for some people are no use at all to others. I'm keeping my lifetime accumulation of momentoes and memories and my family will just have to deal with it.
Cheers,
Westoe
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I feel much the same as you, Westoe. My sister, brother and I cleared out my mother's house after she died and yes, it was difficult but in a way it bought closure. We found lots of things we'd forgotten about but which she'd kept - our old school reports, letters we'd written to her when we were at Uni, photographs to name a few. I'm glad that she didn't get rid of those to save us grief, as in fact finding them had the opposite effect.
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The article made me angry so I didn't finish reading it. I think I disagreed with everything she said. She lost me at the part where she said she sold a bracelet she had inherited. This astounds me. How could you do such a thing, unless you were so broke that you had no choice?
No, I think she lost me before that when she said how busy her children were that they wouldn't have time to sort through her stuff when she was dead. Who is that busy? (and too bad anyway)
If someone feels that they want to sort through their possessions and dispose of things they no longer want, then that is fine. I would advise giving family first refusal before dumping anything though.
What a horrible woman. Even the term "death clean" (which she claims to have coined) sounds dreadful.
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I agree Ruskie that her view was very harsh but I feel the younger generations have a different view on life to what we had. My daughter chose to throw the 18th birthday cards away, whereas I kept mine until they were damaged in a flood. I had to respect her decision. I still have my mothers first birthday cards and my children’s. But will they want these when I’m gone?
Regards panda
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I have to admit that I too feel a sense of outrage when I hear of people selling things that have been handed down on the basis that The kids aren't interested I wasn't interested in my grandma's old things when I was younger much to my regret ::) They may not want it now but in years to come they too may regret their lack of interest in family treasures just like I did.
When my Mil was diagnosed with a terminal illness, despite being asked by family not to part with anything without first asking if they would want it, she systematically got rid of things to the charity shop by the bag load. When we cleared out the house after she passed away there wasn't any BMD certificates except her own, no personal documents and most of the old photos had also been disposed of. My husband was most upset that a monogrammed decorative police truncheon that had been promised to him, dated 1869 that belonged to his Great Grandfather wasn't found.
I have offered both my children things that belonged their Great Grandparents and they have put them away for safe keeping.
I too believe that clearing out the possessions of deceased parents can be very cathartic....my Sister and I both laughed and cried when we did it together in stages as and when we felt ready. I wouldn't have had it any other way. We jointly made the decision to keep what we wanted and to send what we didn't to the charity shop.
Carol
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Now almost everybody can take photos by the hundred on their smartphones I think the younger generation have less respect for them and treat them as disposable items. I doubt if more than a tiny fraction of them even get printed in the first place.
I guess we have to accept that many people don't feel such a strong bond with their ancestors as RC members, but it does seem heartless to just clear out the house and burn everything with no monetary value without consulting other family members as I have seen done in the case of one of my in-laws.
Mike.
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May I suggest you don’t write in pencil on the back of photos, not only can this damage the face of the photo but also the writing can easily be erased by rubbing over time.
Most sites that talk about writing on the back of old photos recommend using a soft lead pencil and pressing lightly. I have some photos that my grandparents labelled in this way over 100 years ago and the writing is still very clear.
I agree Jan...as a collector of Carte de Visites and Cabinet cards...many have annotations in pencil that are from the 1800s.
Carol
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I suppose I look at it slightly differently as I have been interested in "old stuff" since I was a teenager, and my house is full of things I have collected over the years, some of them family pieces and some purchased. (I suppose I should be grateful to those who have decluttered their own homes so that I could clutter mine sith their unwanted items) :) I am lucky that my OH shares the passion.
My daughters are both interested in my "stuff", one more than the other, though there are a lot of things they are not keen on, and I'm sure they might eventually sell. That is fine with me as they were recently acquired. I am confident that everything of sentimental value will be kept.
Like many people I remember some of the things in elderly relatives homes, which have disappeared over the years, and I would do anything to have them today. In fact some of it I know one of my daughters would adore.