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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: RichardK on Friday 26 January 18 07:19 GMT (UK)

Title: Illegible birthplace, 1851 census
Post by: RichardK on Friday 26 January 18 07:19 GMT (UK)
Can anyone help work out what this birthplace is meant to say please? It's from the 1851 census for Alexander McKenzie, a Scottish tailor living in St Pancras. Class HO107; Piece 1493; Folio 563; Page 8. Anything I can make of it doesn't seem to be a real place. This was the only census in which Alexander gave a more precise place of birth than 'Scotland'. Confidence isn't inspired by the fact that his wife was from Woburn in Bedfordshire, and there are plenty of streets named after Woburn in that part of London, yet her birthplace has come out as 'Waurbourn'.
Title: Re: Illegible birthplace, 1851 census
Post by: Geoff-E on Friday 26 January 18 08:32 GMT (UK)
I can find Kilfinichen (aka Chil Fhinichin)

http://brydondale.com/genealogy/tng/placesearch.php?tree=bryd2&psearch=Kilfinichen+%26+Kilvicheon%2C+Mull%2C+Argyllshire%2C+Scotland

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=149147&Y=728614&A=Y&Z=120
Title: Re: Illegible birthplace, 1851 census
Post by: PaulineJ on Friday 26 January 18 08:39 GMT (UK)
I wasnt sure if it was a k or an r.

Have you tried looking at old maps gazetteer , going through all Scottish counties looking for place names that you could garble to resemble the 1851 entry?

https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Gazetteer
Title: Re: Illegible birthplace, 1851 census
Post by: heywood on Friday 26 January 18 08:50 GMT (UK)
I thought it was Ros?finic and had a look at the census to check the ‘R’ and the ‘K’. I think it is ‘R’ .
However, I can’t find a place. :-\
Title: Re: Illegible birthplace, 1851 census
Post by: heywood on Friday 26 January 18 08:55 GMT (UK)
There is a Daniel McKenzie at 1851 1494/625/32 who is also a Tailor in St Pancras. He is from Paisley.
He might be no relation but I thought I would mention him.
Title: Re: Illegible birthplace, 1851 census
Post by: goldie61 on Friday 26 January 18 09:00 GMT (UK)
I thought it was 'Rosefinie'.

I found this - it may have put on by you - if not, somebody else also can't find the place!
https://www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:Alexander_McKenzie_%2821%29

Had a quick look through Scotlandsplaces - a fabulous site if you can find a specific place.
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk
Still no luck I'm afraid.

Do you know any of Alexander's siblings you could look for in the Censuses to see if there's anything written as their place of birth?

Added: Snap idea heywood!
Title: Re: Illegible birthplace, 1851 census
Post by: RichardK on Friday 26 January 18 09:43 GMT (UK)
Thanks all - good ideas. Looking through the gazetteer I have spotted 'Rhughasinish' on South Uist - wonder if the Gaelic pronunciation would be something closer to Rosefinie? (The WeRelate page was me.) Equally, Daniel from Paisley being a tailor also in St Pancras sounds worth a bit more investigation.
Title: Re: Illegible birthplace, 1851 census
Post by: avm228 on Friday 26 January 18 09:56 GMT (UK)
Different angle, but I see that Alexander married Mary Gobbey at St James, Westminster on 23 Aug 1831.

Have the marriage witnesses, Robert Millar Strathern and Amelia Edmunds, been traced?

The former, in particular, looks promising for being connected to Alexander’s Scottish origins.
Title: Re: Illegible birthplace, 1851 census
Post by: avm228 on Friday 26 January 18 09:59 GMT (UK)
Different angle, but I see that Alexander married Mary Gobbey at St Jmes, Westminster on 23 Aug 1831.

Have the marriage witnesses, Robert Millar Strathern and Amelia Edmunds, been traced?

The former, in particular, looks promising for being connected to Alexander’s Scottish origins.

In fact, Alexander McKenzie had been one of the witnesses a couple of months earlier when Robert Millar Strathern married Hannah Boden at St George Hanover Square on 26 June 1831.
Title: Re: Illegible birthplace, 1851 census
Post by: avm228 on Friday 26 January 18 10:19 GMT (UK)
Unfortunately Robert Millar Strathern died aged 26 in 1835 (buried St James Westminster 10 May 1835) so no census entries for him.

He was a tailor, of Portland St, according to the 1832 baptism of daughter Alice.  Abode was Kemp’s Court by the time of his death, per burial register.
Title: Re: Illegible birthplace, 1851 census
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Friday 26 January 18 10:21 GMT (UK)
A book search shows up a place called Rosefini

MDunder, John Jobson, Esq; of RoseFini, to Miss Stevenson, of Dundee. fo. 6. Lord Viscount Montague, to Miss Hero Mauby, daughter of Thomas Mau# ts; of Bead's Hall, county of Essex. 7. At Dundee, the Rev. Patrick Mac F, one of the ministers of that town, to * Agnes Gibson, daughter of the late * John Gibson, minister of ...

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zl4AAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA143&lpg=PA143&dq=Rosefinie+scotland&source=bl&ots=s1KsbXME1v&sig=B-4sBBhuMlTOPIex53Qa4yhF7n4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwif_4Dis_XYAhWpA8AKHft4CNAQ6AEILTAB#v=onepage&q=Rosefinie%20scotland&f=false

But I can't find anything about where it is
Title: Re: Illegible birthplace, 1851 census
Post by: avm228 on Friday 26 January 18 10:24 GMT (UK)
A book search shows up a place called Rosefini

MDunder, John Jobson, Esq; of RoseFini, to Miss Stevenson, of Dundee. fo. 6. Lord Viscount Montague, to Miss Hero Mauby, daughter of Thomas Mau# ts; of Bead's Hall, county of Essex. 7. At Dundee, the Rev. Patrick Mac F, one of the ministers of that town, to * Agnes Gibson, daughter of the late * John Gibson, minister of ...

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zl4AAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA143&lpg=PA143&dq=Rosefinie+scotland&source=bl&ots=s1KsbXME1v&sig=B-4sBBhuMlTOPIex53Qa4yhF7n4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwif_4Dis_XYAhWpA8AKHft4CNAQ6AEILTAB#v=onepage&q=Rosefinie%20scotland&f=false

But I can't find anything about where it is

Looks like an OCR error - it seems to me to be Rosemount in the underlying document.
Title: Re: Illegible birthplace, 1851 census
Post by: josey on Friday 26 January 18 11:18 GMT (UK)
I see something like 'Rossfinic'  ??? rather than 'Rosefinie'.

ADDED: and this google book excerpt mentions Rosefinnick in Ayrshire
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ler/
and this
http://digital.nls.uk/directories/browse/archive/90670369?mode=transcription
see Fenwick on p 326
http://digital.nls.uk/directories/browse/archive/90673933
Title: Re: Illegible birthplace, 1851 census
Post by: ShaunJ on Friday 26 January 18 12:11 GMT (UK)
"The lands of Fenwick....appear to have been divided into two holdings "Ross-Finnick and Wattis-Finnick""


https://goo.gl/oY9yQF
Title: Re: Illegible birthplace, 1851 census
Post by: ShaunJ on Friday 26 January 18 12:23 GMT (UK)
ScotlandsPeople has the baptism of an Alexander McKenzie in Fenwick in 1804: parents John McKenzie and Elizabeth Stevenson

Title: Re: Illegible birthplace, 1851 census
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 26 January 18 12:26 GMT (UK)
This may be of interest, although I couldn't spot Ross Finnick:

 http://maps.nls.uk/view/74488611
Title: Re: Illegible birthplace, 1851 census
Post by: josey on Friday 26 January 18 12:31 GMT (UK)
This shows Laigh Fenwick, south of Fenwick.
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=14&lat=55.6609&lon=-4.4407&layers=1&b=1
Title: Re: Illegible birthplace, 1851 census
Post by: RichardK on Friday 26 January 18 13:30 GMT (UK)
Excellent bit of sleuthing ShaunJ and everyone - here's the image of that 1804 baptism from Fenwick, Ayrshire. This Alexander was indeed born in Ross / Rose Fenwick. I think we have our answer.
Many thanks to all.
Richard.
Title: Re: Illegible birthplace, 1851 census
Post by: heywood on Friday 26 January 18 14:25 GMT (UK)
Well done everyone. What a good result.  :)
Title: Re: Illegible birthplace, 1851 census
Post by: Istrice on Friday 26 January 18 15:07 GMT (UK)
On John Thomson's "Atlas of Scotland 1832" on the west side of the road that runs N from Kilmarnock to Glasgow via Fenwick, Rose Fenwick is marked five place names before Fenwick village. (http://maps.nls.uk/view/74400169).  Apologies for my non-standard method of referencing the location.

Istrice
Title: Re: Illegible birthplace, 1851 census *complete*
Post by: RichardK on Friday 26 January 18 20:14 GMT (UK)
Thanks Istrice - nice to pinpoint it on the map. Looks like it's in the same area the Ordnance Survey today label Laigh Fenwick, around the junction of the roads now called Main Road and Waterslap (good name).