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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Kent => England => Kent Lookup Requests => Topic started by: MattD30 on Friday 02 February 18 00:16 GMT (UK)

Title: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: MattD30 on Friday 02 February 18 00:16 GMT (UK)
Hi

My ancestor Thomas Rogers married Elizabeth Farly in Ashford in 1713, she was born in Ashford in 1688 and I believe Thomas was born around the same time.

A number of trees online show that Thomas was born in Eastwell to Thomas and Prudence Rogers and christened on 5 December 1680. However there is also a burial on Familysearch and Findmypast for "Thomas Rogers son of Thomas Rogers" in Eastwell dated 20 July 1683.

This leads me to suspect that the online trees are wrong and that the Thomas Rogers christened in Eastwell isn't mine.

The only other candidate I've found is a Thomas Rogers christened in Kennington in March 1692/3 son of Thomas Rogers.

Could this Thomas [the father] be the same one who was married to Prudence and who had a son named Thomas born in Eastwell? Or is this a different family?

Is there any sign of a marriage for the Thomas in Kennington pre 1693 or any other Rogers children born in Kennington to Thomas between 1690 and 1700?

Many thanks for any ideas or help

Matt
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: solidrock on Friday 02 February 18 01:25 GMT (UK)
Thomas Rogers  m  Prudence White, 24 Jan 1675/76, St Mary the Virgin, Ashford.   By License.

Tho. Rogers. baptised 5 Dec 1680, Eastwell, Kent. father Thomas Rogers,  mother Prudence.

Eastwell is 3 miles from Ashford.

Not sure about the death in 1683, could be the same Thomas.
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: ..claire.. on Friday 02 February 18 01:46 GMT (UK)
Hi

Not sure if this is any help at all but when your Thomas married Elizabeth in 1713 his residence was Sheldwich (from the marriage record)  which is a bit further north, and I can see a baptism in Throwley which is just under two miles from Sheldwich

Thomas Rogers bapt. 9 Jan 1681 son of Peter and Elizabeth.

 I think this couple also had a son Joseph in 1671, who I think is  baptising children in Sheldwich c1705.

I think Peter the father was an innholder and possibly died in Badlesmere ( a mile or so from Sheldwich) in 1696, I can see a Will for him .

There are however numerous Thomas Rogers baptisms between 1680-1700

Claire


Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: ..claire.. on Friday 02 February 18 01:59 GMT (UK)
The Eastwell Rogers: 

The father Thomas was almost certainly dead by 1701. There are five records/transcripts for a marriage of a Prudence Rogers in Eastwell on the 25 Sep 1701 to a William Saddleton. One describes her as Mrs. Rogers.

EDIT: Just found a burial for a Thomas Rogers 13 June 1696 in Kennington and again for the 28 June 1696 Kennington a Thomas Rogers "buried in wool".

Wonder if they are father and son or an error with transcripts.

Claire
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: MattD30 on Saturday 03 February 18 00:26 GMT (UK)
The Eastwell Rogers: 

The father Thomas was almost certainly dead by 1701. There are five records/transcripts for a marriage of a Prudence Rogers in Eastwell on the 25 Sep 1701 to a William Saddleton. One describes her as Mrs. Rogers.

EDIT: Just found a burial for a Thomas Rogers 13 June 1696 in Kennington and again for the 28 June 1696 Kennington a Thomas Rogers "buried in wool".

Wonder if they are father and son or an error with transcripts.

Claire

Hi Claire

Wow you've been busy. Many thanks.

So based on what you've seen so far do you think that the Thomas christened in Throwley in 1681 is more likely to be mine that the one in either Eastwell or Kennington?

Is it possible that Thomas was simply staying in Sheldwich at the time of his marriage?

Matt
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: ..claire.. on Saturday 03 February 18 00:40 GMT (UK)
Hi Matt

When  you visit the library next and see how many Thomas Rogers are actually baptised in Kent 1680-1700 it's very difficult to say who he was. Joseph Rogers is the only Rogers in Sheldwich c1705, but I have just found a Thomas Roger marrying there in 1715 - so that looks like my theory could be out of the window ::)
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: MattD30 on Saturday 03 February 18 01:52 GMT (UK)
Hi Matt

When  you visit the library next and see how many Thomas Rogers are actually baptised in Kent 1680-1700 it's very difficult to say who he was. Joseph Rogers is the only Rogers in Sheldwich c1705, but I have just found a Thomas Roger marrying there in 1715 - so that looks like my theory could be out of the window ::)

Hi Claire

Thanks for that. I'll check the library either tomorrow or mid next week.

I quick look on familysearch has just revealed 387 Thomas Rogers christened in Kent between 1679 and 1701. However I think a lot of these may be duplicate entries.

It looks like Peter and Elizabeth had more than one son called Thomas. So far I've found the following:

12 Jan 1678 - Burial for "Thomas Rogers son of Peter and Elizabeth"

1 June 1678 - Christening for "Thomas Rogers son of Peter and Elizabeth"

9 January 1681 - Christening for "Thomas Rogers son of Peter and Elizabeth"


The third one is obviously more like to be mine if this is the right lot.

It looks like Peter and Elizabeth also had the following children [all christened in Throwley]

Elizabeth - christened 28 Sept 1673
William - christened 14 Aug 1676 buried 12 Jan 1678
Mary - christened 23 Feb 1683

The only Joseph I found born to Peter and Elizabeth was in Molash. Is that the one you were referring to?

Where did you see Peter Roger's Will? I can't find a reference for it and think it would be useful to check it out.

Obviously the problem here would be solved if one of the junior Thomas Rogers died, or if any of their parents left a will which could provide clues.

The Throwley option looks slightly more likely at the moment based on its proximity to Sheldwich and the fact that it looks like the other Thomas may have died. Again the answers might lay in looking at Wills.

I'll do some more digging and let you know what I come up with.

Matt
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: ..claire.. on Saturday 03 February 18 12:52 GMT (UK)
Hi Matt

It is interesting that Thomas and Elizabeth ( nee Farley) name their first son Joseph too.

I do feel this family are worth looking into. Given the proximity of Sheldwich, Throwley and Molash where I did find Joseph's baptism.

The father Peter Rogers was buried in Leaveland 1696 - two miles from Sheldwich as was Joseph in 1729.

There are mentions of them both in F M P's Kents Will and Probate Index.

Peter ROGER ( buried as Rogers) Innholder of Badlesmere
COURT: Kent Archdeaconry Court
ARCHIVE REF: PRC/11/59/40
Documents: inventory bundle

Joseph Rogers of Sheldwich, bricklayer
COURT: Kent Archdeaconry Court
ARCHIVE REF: PRC/11/79/68
Documents: loose inventories 

There is also possibly something for the mother Elizabeth in 1712

Elizabeth Rogers of Leaveland no occupation
COURT: Canterbury Consistory Court
ARCHIVE REF: PRC/27/39/88
DOCUMENTS: loose inventories

MARRIAGE

Peter Rogers of Molash and Elizabeth Dourne of Molash married 30 January 1671 Preston next Faversham. Another transcription of the marriage gives the date 1 Feb 1770 - brides surname Dornboth ( I can see a baptism of an Elizabeth Dean in Jan. 1653 Molash).

Claire
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: carol8353 on Saturday 03 February 18 17:03 GMT (UK)
Hi Matt

I too have Rogers ancestors born around Ashford.

Mine is George Rogers b about 1809 ,every census says born Ashford and his age is pretty consistent.
He married in Paddington London in 1834 to a Sarah Jenner/Genner.
I have never found a baptism for him and wondered if this is the same family that you are researching?
His sons were John,George,Thomas and James .

So possibly any of those names could have been his father's name. :)

Regards

Carol
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: MattD30 on Saturday 03 February 18 21:25 GMT (UK)
Hi Matt

It is interesting that Thomas and Elizabeth ( nee Farley) name their first son Joseph too.

I do feel this family are worth looking into. Given the proximity of Sheldwich, Throwley and Molash where I did find Joseph's baptism.

The father Peter Rogers was buried in Leaveland 1696 - two miles from Sheldwich as was Joseph in 1729.

There are mentions of them both in F M P's Kents Will and Probate Index.

Peter ROGER ( buried as Rogers) Innholder of Badlesmere
COURT: Kent Archdeaconry Court
ARCHIVE REF: PRC/11/59/40
Documents: inventory bundle

Joseph Rogers of Sheldwich, bricklayer
COURT: Kent Archdeaconry Court
ARCHIVE REF: PRC/11/79/68
Documents: loose inventories 

There is also possibly something for the mother Elizabeth in 1712

Elizabeth Rogers of Leaveland no occupation
COURT: Canterbury Consistory Court
ARCHIVE REF: PRC/27/39/88
DOCUMENTS: loose inventories

MARRIAGE

Peter Rogers of Molash and Elizabeth Dourne of Molash married 30 January 1671 Preston next Faversham. Another transcription of the marriage gives the date 1 Feb 1770 - brides surname Dornboth ( I can see a baptism of an Elizabeth Dean in Jan. 1653 Molash).

Claire

Hi Claire

I think we may be on to something here. I am pretty sure the name "Dourne" [or possibly Dorne] crops up in one marriage licences I have looked at for the Rogers. I think the name also appears in a Will I've looked at but I'll have to double check.

Matt
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: MattD30 on Saturday 03 February 18 21:28 GMT (UK)
Hi Matt

I too have Rogers ancestors born around Ashford.

Mine is George Rogers b about 1809 ,every census says born Ashford and his age is pretty consistent.
He married in Paddington London in 1834 to a Sarah Jenner/Genner.
I have never found a baptism for him and wondered if this is the same family that you are researching?
His sons were John,George,Thomas and James .

So possibly any of those names could have been his father's name. :)

Regards

Carol

Hi Carol

My Rogers are about 100 years earlier in Ashford so at the moment I can't see a link with the family you are researching. Obviously there might be a link further back though.

Matt
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: carol8353 on Saturday 03 February 18 23:15 GMT (UK)
Okay Matt,thanks for that.

You never know but our paths may cross again in years to come  :)

Carol
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: MattD30 on Saturday 03 February 18 23:17 GMT (UK)
Hi Matt

It is interesting that Thomas and Elizabeth ( nee Farley) name their first son Joseph too.

I do feel this family are worth looking into. Given the proximity of Sheldwich, Throwley and Molash where I did find Joseph's baptism.

The father Peter Rogers was buried in Leaveland 1696 - two miles from Sheldwich as was Joseph in 1729.

There are mentions of them both in F M P's Kents Will and Probate Index.

Peter ROGER ( buried as Rogers) Innholder of Badlesmere
COURT: Kent Archdeaconry Court
ARCHIVE REF: PRC/11/59/40
Documents: inventory bundle

Joseph Rogers of Sheldwich, bricklayer
COURT: Kent Archdeaconry Court
ARCHIVE REF: PRC/11/79/68
Documents: loose inventories 

There is also possibly something for the mother Elizabeth in 1712

Elizabeth Rogers of Leaveland no occupation
COURT: Canterbury Consistory Court
ARCHIVE REF: PRC/27/39/88
DOCUMENTS: loose inventories

MARRIAGE

Peter Rogers of Molash and Elizabeth Dourne of Molash married 30 January 1671 Preston next Faversham. Another transcription of the marriage gives the date 1 Feb 1770 - brides surname Dornboth ( I can see a baptism of an Elizabeth Dean in Jan. 1653 Molash).

Claire

Hi Claire

I've just found a reference to a Will for Joseph Dourne of Molash dated 1686. Might give me some more clues so I'll check it out when I get a chance.

Matt
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: ..claire.. on Sunday 04 February 18 00:09 GMT (UK)
Hi

I checked Joseph on the index on F M P and it says he was a Victualler. Given Peter Rogers was an innholder there possibly was a connection.

Claire
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: MattD30 on Sunday 04 February 18 00:19 GMT (UK)
Hi

I checked Joseph on the index on F M P and it says he was a Victualler. Given Peter Rogers was an innholder there possibly was a connection.

Claire

Hi Claire

There could definitely could be a connection here. I plan to check the Wills next week but if you find anything else out or have any ideas it would be great to hear them.

Thanks again for the help

Matt
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: MattD30 on Monday 05 February 18 23:00 GMT (UK)
Hi Claire

It's looking more and more likely that the Thomas Rogers who was born in Throwley could be mine.

I was at the library today and had a look to see how many christenings there were for "Thomas Rogers" in Kent between 1680 and 1700. There were 47 results but a number of the entries seemed to refer to the same person. I expanded the search a few years and looked between 1675 and 1715 and this gave 75 results.

It looks like the Thomas Rogers who was born in Eastwell in 1680 to Thomas and Prudence Rogers died in 1683. There is a burial for a Thomas Rogers in that year and he is described as the son of Thomas. Also it looks like Thomas and Prudence had another son called Thomas before this who probably also died.

That leaves two possible candidates, the Thomas Rogers born to Peter and Elizabeth and Throwley, and also a Thomas Rogers (son of Thomas) born in Kennington in 1692.

Given the proximity of Throwley, Molash, Leaveland, and Sheldwich to each other I am inclined to think that the Thomas Rogers of Throwley could be mine.

It's a shame I can't find any Wills for any of these people as they usually help establish who is who.

Anyhow I plan to visit the National Archives on Thursday so I might find out more details then.

Matt
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: MattD30 on Monday 05 February 18 23:24 GMT (UK)
Hi Matt

It is interesting that Thomas and Elizabeth ( nee Farley) name their first son Joseph too.

I do feel this family are worth looking into. Given the proximity of Sheldwich, Throwley and Molash where I did find Joseph's baptism.

The father Peter Rogers was buried in Leaveland 1696 - two miles from Sheldwich as was Joseph in 1729.

There are mentions of them both in F M P's Kents Will and Probate Index.

Peter ROGER ( buried as Rogers) Innholder of Badlesmere
COURT: Kent Archdeaconry Court
ARCHIVE REF: PRC/11/59/40
Documents: inventory bundle

Joseph Rogers of Sheldwich, bricklayer
COURT: Kent Archdeaconry Court
ARCHIVE REF: PRC/11/79/68
Documents: loose inventories 

There is also possibly something for the mother Elizabeth in 1712

Elizabeth Rogers of Leaveland no occupation
COURT: Canterbury Consistory Court
ARCHIVE REF: PRC/27/39/88
DOCUMENTS: loose inventories

MARRIAGE

Peter Rogers of Molash and Elizabeth Dourne of Molash married 30 January 1671 Preston next Faversham. Another transcription of the marriage gives the date 1 Feb 1770 - brides surname Dornboth ( I can see a baptism of an Elizabeth Dean in Jan. 1653 Molash).

Claire

Hi Claire

Where did you find the christening for "Elizabeth Dean" in Molash? I can't find any reference to it on Familysearch myself.

I have found a christening for an Elizabeth Dorne in Stalisfield in 1639 and wonder if she could be related. She is the daughter of Thomas and Dorothy Dorne.

There's a Will for a Joseph Dorne in Molash in 1686 and I will check that on Thursday to see if that gives any clues. Could Joseph Rogers have been named after him?

Matt
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: ..claire.. on Monday 05 February 18 23:32 GMT (UK)
Hi Matt

I have found a baptism for an Elizabeth Dourne 1645 at Challock too- which again is only a mile from Molash, daughter of a William, I think. Will check with what I found and write it up. I think I found a baptism in Molash c1620 of a Joseph Dourne, will get back to you on that

EDIT: Hadn't realised how near Stalisfield is to the other places.

********************************

There was also two burials in Kennington 1696 within 15 days of each other for Thomas Rogers - father and son perhaps, which possibly rules them out.

Claire
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: MattD30 on Tuesday 06 February 18 00:21 GMT (UK)
Hi Matt

I have found a baptism for an Elizabeth Dourne 1645 at Challock too- which again is only a mile from Molash, daughter of a William, I think. Will check with what I found and write it up. I think I found a baptism in Molash c1620 of a Joseph Dourne, will get back to you on that

EDIT: Hadn't realised how near Stalisfield is to the other places.

********************************

There was also two burials in Kennington 1696 within 15 days of each other for Thomas Rogers - father and son perhaps, which possibly rules them out.

Claire

Hi Claire

It looks more and more likely that my Thomas is the son of Peter and Elizabeth based on this. I haven't been able to find a christening for Peter yet. Do you have any idea where/when he might have been christened?

I think you are right about the two burial in Kennington, it looks more likely that they refer to separate people (probably father and son) rather than the same person.

I wonder if the Joseph Dourne christened in Molash in 1620 is related to Elizabeth? Do you think he might be William Dourne's brother? This Joseph is probably the one who died in 1686 leaving a Will so that might give me more clues.

Matt
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: ..claire.. on Tuesday 06 February 18 01:03 GMT (UK)
Hi Matt

There is a baptism in Throwley on 18 Feb 1621 of a Jospeh DWORNE - no parents listed ( for any child baptised at all except where I named them ) there is also an Elizabeth baptised in 1611 daughter of a William. There are also a George 1608, Maria 1605, Judyth 1602, Paulina 1604, Thomas 1607, Thomason 1611, John 1610 son of Joseph. Ann 1612 son of William, David 1616, Mary 1606, William 1609

It looks like three brothers possibly ( John, Joseph and William) baptising children in Throwley.

William Doune married Dorothy Holforth at Throwley 4 Jul 1603
I can't see marriages for the other two.

Possibly the Thomas born 1607 is the father of the Elizabeth you have found.
Possibly the William born in 1609 is the father of the Elizabeth I have found.

Elizabeth  Doorne bapt. 19 Oct 1645 at Challock, Sts Cosmas & Damian, daughter of William. Possible marriage in Stalisfield - William Dourne to Godly Mercer 6 Oct 1633.

In the Canterbury CC Index there are quite a few Wills and Inventories for variants of Dourne ( I've included Downe as that was written Dourne or Downe in one Will or Inventory reference I looked at)

Claire
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: ..claire.. on Tuesday 06 February 18 01:19 GMT (UK)
Hi again

Three siblings with the surname Dean in Molash, all children of John DEAN.

Elizabeth bapt. 24 Jan 1653
Jane bapt. 28 Sep 1658
John bapt. 9 Jan 1655

John DEAN married Mary Howell at Challock 24 Aug 1651.
************************************************************

The only Peter I can find is baptised in Dover 1646 as Petter Roggers son of Stephen and Jane. I would have thought possibly too far away.

 I just feel given Peter Rogers who died 1696 and was buried in Leaveland and that there are a couple of early records in Leaveland of another Peter Rogers,  and there was a Thomas & a James baptising children there c1645 that the family were from this area. I've also just gone through the register which stops at 1645 and then starts again 1657 when there is one baptism and nothing until 1664. Wonder if there are missing baptisms, seems odd no children born and baptised for twelve years plus.

Claire
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: MattD30 on Tuesday 06 February 18 02:11 GMT (UK)
Hi again

Three siblings with the surname Dean in Molash, all children of John DEAN.

Elizabeth bapt. 24 Jan 1653
Jane bapt. 28 Sep 1658
John bapt. 9 Jan 1655

John DEAN married Mary Howell at Challock 24 Aug 1651.
************************************************************

The only Peter I can find is baptised in Dover 1646 as Petter Roggers son of Stephen and Jane. I would have thought possibly too far away.

 I just feel given Peter Rogers who died 1696 and was buried in Leaveland and that there are a couple of early records in Leaveland of another Peter Rogers,  and there was a Thomas & a James baptising children there c1645 that the family were from this area. I've also just gone through the register which stops at 1645 and then starts again 1657 when there is one baptism and nothing until 1664. Wonder if there are missing baptisms, seems odd no children born and baptised for twelve years plus.

Claire

Hi Claire

Thanks for those bits of info. I think you are right about Dover being too far away for Peter Rogers, but I might look into it just in case.

I'll go through the info tomorrow and get back to you with some ides.

There are a few things which made this lot stand out though,

1) Paulina is quite a distinctive name and might be helpful when tracing references to her in other records suh as Wills.

2) I think Thomas (1607) and William (1609) are most likely to be brothers but this is only an idea.

How do you think John DEAN and his children relate to those in Throwley? Do you think they are connected?

Anyhow that's all for now but I will send more details tomorrow.

Matt
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: ..claire.. on Tuesday 06 February 18 12:36 GMT (UK)
Hi Matt

Will have a look into John Dean see if his surname is a corruption of Dourne.

Paulina Dourne of Eastling married Edward PREBLE of Boughts Blean ? ( Boughton under Blean possibly) on 21 July 1633 at Eastling.

Can see a daughter Elizabeth born 1635, and then nothing. I can see two burials of an Edward PREBLE, both labourers - one of whom had a wife Ann. One I presume will be the husband of Paulina. Cannot find a burial for Paulina or a possible remarriage.

Edward Preble was bapt. in Broughton Blean on 6 Nov 1603 son of Edward.
Edward Preble (father of Edward) buried 8 Jan 1641
Edward Preble (husband of Paulina) buried 1 Jul 1668

Claire
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: MattD30 on Tuesday 06 February 18 23:35 GMT (UK)
Hi Matt

Will have a look into John Dean see if his surname is a corruption of Dourne.

Paulina Dourne of Eastling married Edward PREBLE of Boughts Blean ? ( Boughton under Blean possibly) on 21 July 1633 at Eastling.

Can see a daughter Elizabeth born 1635, and then nothing. I can see two burials of an Edward PREBLE, both labourers - one of whom had a wife Ann. One I presume will be the husband of Paulina. Cannot find a burial for Paulina or a possible remarriage.

Edward Preble was bapt. in Broughton Blean on 6 Nov 1603 son of Edward.
Edward Preble (father of Edward) buried 8 Jan 1641
Edward Preble (husband of Paulina) buried 1 Jul 1668

Claire

Hi Claire

Yes Boughton Blean (or Bought Bleans) is short for Boughton under Blean. I think I have seen the name Preble (or Prebble) in other sources but I will have to double check.

Anyhow that's all for the moment but I should have more information and possible leads either tomorrow or on Thursday as I plan to visit the National Archives then.

Matt
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: MattD30 on Thursday 08 February 18 23:58 GMT (UK)
Hi Claire

I visited the National Archives at Kew today and obtained copies of the 1754 Will of Thomas Rogers and also the 1686 Will of Joseph Dourne of Molash.

From the information contained in the Will of Joseph Dourne it is clear that there is a link with the Rogers family.

After a rather lengthy preamble with all the usual requests for burial and bequests of money to the poor, Joseph names the following people:

"my brother Thomas Dourne"

He then states

"I give and bequeath unto Peter Rogers sonn of Thomas Rogers of Throwley the sum of twenty pounds of lawful money which I promised him upon his marriage to Elizabeth Dourne my kinswoman"

So clearly Joseph Dourne is related to the Elizabeth Dourne who was married to Peter Rogers. Also given that this Peter was the son of "Thomas Rogers of Throwley" I suspect he could be the father of my Thomas Rogers. It would certainly explain how the name "Joseph" got into the family mix.

Following on from this mention of Peter Rogers etc, Joseph goes on to mention the following people:

"Joseph Rogers son of the above named Peter Rogers"

"my loving wife Joane"

"Joseph Chapman sonn of Peter Chapman"

There's no mention of Thomas Rogers but given that Peter Rogers had a son named Joseph, and we know that Thomas had a son named Joseph, I think it is very likely that Thomas was a son of Peter.

So how does Elizabeth Dourne fit in? I think that when Joseph Dourne mentioned his "kinswoman" he might have been referring to a niece. I'll have to look at the info you've sent me but I think this might get me somewhere.

Anyhow let me know what you think of this theory.

Matt
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: ..claire.. on Friday 09 February 18 00:23 GMT (UK)
Hi Matt

What a brilliant Will :)  I think your theory is spot on!

I think the baptism you have found in Stalisfield 1639 may possibly be correct (Elizabeth daughter of Thomas & Dorothy)

Peter Chapman married Mary DORNE 7 Oct 1657 at Faversham. Possibly their son Joseph is a nephew or relative somehow.

I like to see things coming together, I do feel you are on the right track :)

Claire
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: MattD30 on Friday 09 February 18 11:34 GMT (UK)
Hi Matt

What a brilliant Will :)  I think your theory is spot on!

I think the baptism you have found in Stalisfield 1639 may possibly be correct (Elizabeth daughter of Thomas & Dorothy)

Peter Chapman married Mary DORNE 7 Oct 1657 at Faversham. Possibly their son Joseph is a nephew or relative somehow.

I like to see things coming together, I do feel you are on the right track :)

Claire

Hi Claire

Yes this is the kind of Will I like, not to long but full of information and names. I also obtained a copy of the 1754 will of Thomas Rogers which confirmed that the Thomas who died in Molash in 1754 is mine. In it he names all his daughters and their husbands including:

"Mary the wife of Thomas Homewood..."

Of course the only problem here is getting back beyond Joseph etc. I know you said that you had found a christening in 1620 for Joseph with no parents, and possible siblings including Thomas and William.

I think the answer there will possibly be found in more Wills.

Anyhow for now I am going to try to draw up a tree based on the info you've sent me and what is included in this Will. I'll let you know how I get on.

Do you know where Hunton is or how far from Throwley it is btw?

More to follow later.....

Thanks

Matt
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: ..claire.. on Friday 09 February 18 14:03 GMT (UK)
Hi Matt

Glad it's coming together.

Hunton is a village near Maidstone and is about 23 miles west of Throwley.

Claire
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: MattD30 on Friday 09 February 18 21:40 GMT (UK)
Hi Matt

Glad it's coming together.

Hunton is a village near Maidstone and is about 23 miles west of Throwley.

Claire

Hi Claire

Well that probably rules out the Peter Rogers who was christened there in 1612 as the Peter who married Elizabeth Dourne.

However there is another Peter Rogers, son of Robert Rogers, christened in Leaveland in 1606. Leaveland boarders Throwley and Molash and I think that this Peter might be the grandfather of Thomas Rogers (died 1754), assuming that Thomas was born in the 1670s or 1680s.

Anyhow once I've written up my notes and sorted all these people into groups I'll let you know if I've got any further.

Thanks again for the help

Matt
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: MattD30 on Saturday 10 February 18 11:37 GMT (UK)
Hi Claire

In one of your previous replies you mentioned a Joseph Dourn who was christened in 1620 in Molash and then one in Throwley in 1621. Are these the same person or two different christenings? Do you have the full dates  or parents names?

I've just drawn up a very small basic tree based on the info gathered so far. Based on the info you found and the info in the Will I believe Elizabeth Dourn (wife of Peter Rogers) was the niece of Joseph Dourn (whose Will I have). It looks like she is the daughter of the William Dourn and Godley Mercer who were married in 1633.

Peter Rogers is described as the "son of Thomas Rogers of Throwley" so I think that will be the best place to look next for the Rogers. I'm not sure when Peter was born but at a guess I'd say 1640s to 1650s.

As for the Dourns, I think I will have to look in Stalisfield for them.

Anyhow I'll send you a pdf tree later if I can so u can see what all this looks like.

Thanks again for your help.

Matt
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: ..claire.. on Saturday 10 February 18 21:01 GMT (UK)
Hi Matt

Apologies for the confusion. There is only one Joseph born Throwley 1621. The other date I mentioned was me trying to remember what I'd seen whilst trying to work at the same time.

I have found a record in the London Apprenticeship Transcripts. Must be family.

Dated 1631 - John Doorne son of Joseph Doorne of Throwley, Kent, deceased. Apprenticed to Thomas Hathersole plaisterer.

It would be great to find a Peter Rogers baptism too to get back further for you.

Claire
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: MattD30 on Saturday 10 February 18 22:37 GMT (UK)
Hi Matt

Apologies for the confusion. There is only one Joseph born Throwley 1621. The other date I mentioned was me trying to remember what I'd seen whilst trying to work at the same time.

I have found a record in the London Apprenticeship Transcripts. Must be family.

Dated 1631 - John Doorne son of Joseph Doorne of Throwley, Kent, deceased. Apprenticed to Thomas Hathersole plaisterer.

It would be great to find a Peter Rogers baptism too to get back further for you.

Claire

Hi Claire

Thanks for clearing that up. I've not been able to find any more on either the Dourne line or the Rogers yet.

The Joseph Dourne referred to in the apprenticeship indenture obviously cannot be the one born in 1621. He might be an uncle of that Joseph though. I wonder if there are any other Dourns in the area at that time? So far I've not seen any other Wills but I'll keep looking.

Matt
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: ..claire.. on Sunday 11 February 18 16:00 GMT (UK)
Hi Matt

There are quite a few Dourne families about in the places we have been looking at ( Throwley, Molash, Stalisfield etc.) restricting the search to 1600-1680  - I keep spotting them in the records.

It looks like Joseph Dourne's wife Joan remarried the following year

Robert Peckenham married Joan Dorne 26 May 1687 at Molash

Joane Peckenham buried 15 Jul 1687 Molash wife of Robert.

It looks like Robert P died c1708 Molash, there is a reference of an inventory bundle in the Kent Probate indexes.

Have been trying allsorts to find a marriage for Joseph Dorne and Joane but unsuccessful at the moment.
***********************************************

Regarding Peter Rogers - son of a Thomas Rogers. I'm going to try and look what happened to these children below. All born in Leaveland ( where Peter was buried) and children of a Thomas Rogers. The registers at Leaveland specify no baptisms after 1645.

Ana bapt. 4 May 1635 daughter of Thomas and Judith
Thomas bapt. 5 Apr 1631 son of Thomas.
William bapt. 16 Nov 1641 son of Thomas and Judith
Catheryn bapt. 18 Mar 1633 dau. of Thomas Roggers.

Thomas Rogers married Judith Cheeseman 7 May 1629 Leaveland

Claire
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: MattD30 on Sunday 11 February 18 19:29 GMT (UK)
Hi Matt

There are quite a few Dourne families about in the places we have been looking at ( Throwley, Molash, Stalisfield etc.) restricting the search to 1600-1680  - I keep spotting them in the records.

It looks like Joseph Dourne's wife Joan remarried the following year

Robert Peckenham married Joan Dorne 26 May 1687 at Molash

Joane Peckenham buried 15 Jul 1687 Molash wife of Robert.

It looks like Robert P died c1708 Molash, there is a reference of an inventory bundle in the Kent Probate indexes.

Have been trying allsorts to find a marriage for Joseph Dorne and Joane but unsuccessful at the moment.
***********************************************

Regarding Peter Rogers - son of a Thomas Rogers. I'm going to try and look what happened to these children below. All born in Leaveland ( where Peter was buried) and children of a Thomas Rogers. The registers at Leaveland specify no baptisms after 1645.

Ana bapt. 4 May 1635 daughter of Thomas and Judith
Thomas bapt. 5 Apr 1631 son of Thomas.
William bapt. 16 Nov 1641 son of Thomas and Judith
Catheryn bapt. 18 Mar 1633 dau. of Thomas Roggers.

Thomas Rogers married Judith Cheeseman 7 May 1629 Leaveland

Claire

Hi Claire

Thanks for the update. I am currently looking into the marriage of another Kent ancestor, Richard Chapman. I know he was married to a widow named Margaret Reader [nee Hodge, I believe] in 1676, but now it looks like he was married three times! [see my post on Margaret Reader for full details].

Anyhow I'll stop there and I look forward to hearing what you find out.

Many thanks again

Matt
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: MattD30 on Thursday 31 May 18 22:21 BST (UK)
Hi Matt

There are quite a few Dourne families about in the places we have been looking at ( Throwley, Molash, Stalisfield etc.) restricting the search to 1600-1680  - I keep spotting them in the records.

It looks like Joseph Dourne's wife Joan remarried the following year

Robert Peckenham married Joan Dorne 26 May 1687 at Molash

Joane Peckenham buried 15 Jul 1687 Molash wife of Robert.

It looks like Robert P died c1708 Molash, there is a reference of an inventory bundle in the Kent Probate indexes.

Have been trying allsorts to find a marriage for Joseph Dorne and Joane but unsuccessful at the moment.
***********************************************

Regarding Peter Rogers - son of a Thomas Rogers. I'm going to try and look what happened to these children below. All born in Leaveland ( where Peter was buried) and children of a Thomas Rogers. The registers at Leaveland specify no baptisms after 1645.

Ana bapt. 4 May 1635 daughter of Thomas and Judith
Thomas bapt. 5 Apr 1631 son of Thomas.
William bapt. 16 Nov 1641 son of Thomas and Judith
Catheryn bapt. 18 Mar 1633 dau. of Thomas Roggers.

Thomas Rogers married Judith Cheeseman 7 May 1629 Leaveland

Claire

Hi Claire

Hope you are well. It's been a while since I looked into the Rogers and Dorne families but I think I have made some progress with the Dourns.

I will post an update on here soon.

Matt
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: ..claire.. on Friday 01 June 18 00:24 BST (UK)
Hi Matt,

I'm well, hope you are too  :)

Glad you've made some progress with the Dourns, I look forward to hearing from you.

Claire
Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: MattD30 on Wednesday 04 July 18 17:36 BST (UK)
Hi Matt,

I'm well, hope you are too  :)

Glad you've made some progress with the Dourns, I look forward to hearing from you.

Claire

Quick update here.

I think I have possibly made a breakthrough with the Dourns/Dorns and also the Rogers/Rodgers - possibly taking both lines back aother generation. I'm putting a basic tree for each family together at the moment and will sned you copies to look at.

At the moment I am working on the following theory:

Peter Rogers [who married Elizabeth Dourne] was probably born in the late 1640s or mid 1650s [they married in 1671] - possibly earlier.

I think Peter may have been the son of Thomas Rogers who was born in Leaveland in 1631 [the son of Thomas and Judith Cheeseman].

It looks like this Thomas (Thomas snr who married Judith) was born in Leaveland in 1604 and was the son of Robert Rogers. Robert also had two other children:

Anne - born April 1602 Leaveland
Peter - born Oct 1606 Leaveland.

With regards to Judith Cheeseman I think I have found a possible christening for her:

"Judith Cheeseman - 19 Oct 1606 Throwley"

There are a lot of Chees[e]man/Cheez[e]man christenings between 1590 and 1619 - only on one of them is a father named but given how close the christenings are I suspect they are siblings.

Walter Cheesman - chr 5 Mar 1596 Throwley, Kent
Avrys Cheesman - chr 7 Mar 1598 Throwley, Kent
William Cheesman - chr 9 Nov 1600 Throwley, Kent
Arthur Cheesman - chr 9 Jan 1602 Throwley, Kent
Mary Cheeseman - chr 22 Feb 1604 Throwley, Kent
Judith Cheeseman - chr 19 Oct 1606 Throwley, Kent
Robert Cheeseman - chr 18 Oct 1607 Throwley, Kent
Robert Cheeseman - chr 7 Apr 1611 Throwley, Kent - son of John Cheeseman
Thomason Cheeseman - chr 24 Feb 1616 Throwley, Kent
Abraham Cheeseman - chr 30 Jan 1619 Throwley, Kent

As you can see only the Robert christened in 1611 has a father named, however I think these could all be siblings. There is a Will for John Cheeseman in the Archdeaconry of Canterbury dated 1616 which might help shed some more light on this.

Matt


Title: Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
Post by: MattD30 on Wednesday 04 July 18 23:26 BST (UK)
Hi Matt,

I'm well, hope you are too  :)

Glad you've made some progress with the Dourns, I look forward to hearing from you.

Claire

Hi Claire

Second update here.

I haven't been able to work out if they are related to the Dourns in Throwley yet, but there are a set of christenings in Sellining:

Matthew Dourne - March 1601/02
Thomas Dourne - March 1601/02
John Dourne - April 1604
Elizabeth Dourne - January 1604/05
Thomas Dourne - September 1608
Marie Dorne - July 1612
Dennis Dourne [female] - January 1613/14

These are all described as the children of Henry Dourne. He may have been married twice (first to a woman named Dorothy [buried in 1610] and then to a woman named Dennis [buried 1617]) however this is only a theory based on the fact that I have found burials for two women described as "the wife of Henry".

It's possible that the Thomas born in 1608 here might be the one who married Dorothy Wyall, and therefore could in turn be the father of Elizabeth Dourne who was born in Stalisfield in 1639. Of course the Thomas who was born in Throwley in 1607 could still be the one who married Dorothy and could still be the father of Elizabeth and her siblings.

I have also found a marriage in 1640 for a Robert Merser, of Stalisfield, to Grace Wells of Hothfield. The marriage took place by licence and he was described as a widower. Interestingly the bondsman was one "William Doorne of Throwley" and it is possible that this is the William who was married to Godley Mercer. If that is the case then it is possible that Godley and Robert were siblings.

Anyhow I will stop there and give you time to digest all this. I have a few Wills to look at but hope to have an update next week.

Matt