RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: ryan37 on Saturday 03 February 18 20:32 GMT (UK)
-
hi i would like to ask if anyone knows any information on a woman born around 1870s at a guess, she had the name Helen Knox Simpson , she had a daughter in 1898 named Mary eliza Querie Simpson born at Lendrum terrace, stirlinghill, peterhead. the daughter mary appears illegitimate on birth cert but later in life on her second marriage to james smith (my great grandfather) her father is listed as william simpson, i believe the parents both had simpson as surname but never married, on the 1901 census mary e simpson is living with her grandparents william and elspet simpson, they were born around 1852/3 i think the son william which is father to mary eliza left home to work on a farm , on mary elizas wedding certificate her mother is mentioned but not a witness , making the whereabouts of helen knox simpson hard to find as after the birth of mary eliza it appears the baby was living with the fathers parents. i think i have found that the dad william simpson ended up in canada around 1905.
any info would be excellent and well appreciated
ryan cordiner
-
Is this the family?
All in grave B316 at Peterhead cemetery:
Jane Catto Simpson, daughter of William Simpson, quarrier, Stirling Village, died 29-8-1877 aged 3 months, buried 1-9-1877
Charles Fowlie, labourer, Boddam, died of typhus fever 19-7-1884 aged 22, buried 22-7-1884
Elsie Ann Simpson, daughter of William Simpson, labourer, 7 Lendrum Terrace, Stirlinghill, died of congestion 12-1-1897, aged 4 months 14 days, buried 13-1-1897
William Simpson, 3 Stirling Village, died of "old age" 19-8-1931 aged 77, buried 22-8-1931
Elspet Fowlie or Simpson, widow of William Simpson, 3 Stirling Village, died of "shock" 20-2-1934 aged 77, buried 22-2-1934
-
yes i believe this is
the last 2 names i believe is the grandparents of mary eliza simpson
ryan
-
thanks for info
im trying to see if the son of william and elspet had a daughter illegitimate mary eliza to a helen knox simpson have found a birth cert for helen simpson 1876 not sure if its the right one also trying to establish why the illegitimate baby was left with the father william's parents willaim and elspet
are you from peterhead?
-
I am not a Blue Mogganer myself.
Could Helen Knox Simpson be a daughter of William Simpson and Elspet Fowlie? Things that might point to that are the child being born at Lendrum Terrace in 1898 when the burial register gives that as the Simpsons' address in 1897. An unmarried woman giving birth for the first time often, if not usually, returned to the parental home for the birth. That would mean it is the maternal grandparents who are bringing up the child (again, probably more usual than the paternal grandparents). The William Simpson given as the father might have been "made up" for the certificate (did the marriage certificate claim that the parents were married?).
-
thanks that is an interesting piece of information
on the marriage cert for mary eliza
the parents are listed as = father william simpson - labourer
mother helen simpson ms simpson
there is no mention of knox as mentioned in mothers middle name on mary elizas birth
thanks
-
I had a look at a transcription of the 1891 census and William Simpson and Elspet Fowlie have a son, William, and a daughter, Helen, living with them. William is 6 and Helen is 8. One of these must be a parent of Mary E. Q. Simpson.
I would say that Helen is going to be the mother. At a very young age.
You should have a look to see if William and Elspet's daughter, Helen, is registered as Helen Knox Simpson. Even if "Knox" doesn't appear on the certificate, it doesn't entirely rule her out as I have seen middle names appearing later in life when, for example, the Smiths' son has been named after John MacDonald, registered as John Smith, but appears later on as John MacDonald Smith.
-
Thank you that makes a lot of sense and appreciate your help where can I see that census record would I find it on ancestry ?
Thanks again
-
Find My Past is giving free access to censuses just now. Scottish ones appear as transcriptions. The Peterhead censuses from 1841-1871 also appear as transcriptions on FreeCEN.
-
Fantastic thanks so much for all
Your help ,
Does it look like to you helen daughter of elspet had a baby Mary Eliza at young age ?
Just wonder who the
Dad could be ? And why he’s listed as William Simpson on marriage of Mary Eliza to James smith
One other thing I thought is if could find out the info on Mary’s first marriage to William
Carr I think it is who is named as her father ?
It’s an interesting one for sure
-
You should check out the certificate for the previous marriage to see if a father is given there. Some illegitimate folk gave the correct parents, but falsely claimed that they were married. Some made up a father. If Mary were brought up by her grandparents, her grandfather, William, would in effect have been the father figure in her life.
-
Thanks very much Il try and find some more info in morning and keep u updated on here , you have been a big help so far and hope to keep working on this with you
Thanks
-
Can’t seem to work out why there is a birth certificate on Scotland’s people and census record on findmypast website , can’t seem to find a death certificate for helen Simpson
She was born in 1882 her parents William Simpson and elspet Simpson m-s fowlie
-
There's always the possibility that she moved away from Scotland.
Did the birth certificate give her name as Helen Simpson or Helen Knox Simpson?
The birth certificate will give you the date and place of her parents' marriage. That will allow you to get a copy of their marriage certificate, which will give their parents' names, occupations, and whether or not they were alive at the time. That information would allow you to look at other free sources and take your research back another generation.
-
Hi birth cert states her name being Helen Simpson , no mention of the Knox , but Knox appears twice on the birth of daughter and the death 1898 and 1961 respectively
She is listed as a domestic servant deceased in 1961
-
From the 1891 census the children at home with William and Elspet are Elspet, 10, Helen, 8, William, 6, Maggie, 5, Eliza, 3, and Annabella, 1. It is easy enough to find their births indexed on SP in the Boddam registration district and Helen's sister Maggie was registered as Maggie Knox SIMPSON. I think that Mary Eliza was probably aware of the use of the name Knox in the family and has added it to her own mother's name. I wouldn't be concerned about it as lots of people gain and lose extra names in records, it just depends on what the informant thinks they know.
It is always a good idea to have a look at where other family members are on subsequent census records to see if they are with extended family. In 1901 Helen's sister Elspet is in Strathdon visiting with a McDONALD family, one of whom happens to be a Helen McDONALD aged 19, born Peterhead, with her husband John and child. (240/ 6/ 2 Strathdon Aberdeen)
Helen's marriage to John in 1900 does confirm that she is yours.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lhb/
Debra :)
-
Thanks so much that is fascinating that is the one we are looking for can I save that cert ?
Fantastic I’m amazed at that infomation you have given me
Regards Ryan
-
There is a download icon at the top right of the page.
Debra :)
-
Thank you so much
Ryan
-
posted in error
-
As for William Simpson's wife, Elspet Fowlie. This looks like her family:
1841
At Dams, Belhelvie:
William Fowlie, 13, ag, lab, b. Aberdeenshire
1841
At Mains of Birness, Logie Buchan:
Jean Catto, 15, female servant, b. Aberdeenshire
1851
At Tarsets, Logie Buchan:
Willaim Fowlie, 23, ag. lab., b.Ellon
Jane Fowlie, 24, b. Foveran
Alexander Fowlie, 1, b. Udny
1861
At Logiereive, Udny:
William Fowlie, 33, ploughman, b. Ellon
"Ann"* Fowlie, 35, ploughman's wife, b. Foveran
Alexander Fowlie, 11, scholar, b. Udny
William Fowlie, 7, b. Tarves
George P. Fowlie, 6, b. Tarves
Elspet Fowlie, 4, b. Udny
Maty G. Fowlie, 1, b. Udny
* Ann must just be an error for Jane
1871
At Ardiffery, Cruden:
William Fowlie, 43, ag. lab., b. Ellon
Jane Fowlie, 45, b. Foveran
Mary G. Fowlie, 11, scholar, b. Udny
Charles C. Fowlie, 9, scholar, b. Udny
Jane G. Fowlie, 7, b. Udny
1871
At South Ardiffery, Cruden:
Elspet Fowlie, 15, domestic servant, b. Udny
1881
At Old Mill, Foveran:
William Fowlie, 53, road labourer
Jane Catto*, 55, road labourer's wife
* Catto is given in the transcript (which omitted the birthplaces - the originals will show them)
1891
At Newburgh, Foveran:
William Fowlie, 63, road labourer
Jane Catto Fowlie, 65
-
Thank you so much everyone