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Research in Other Countries => South Africa => Topic started by: JohnG_Swansea on Saturday 03 February 18 22:26 GMT (UK)

Title: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: JohnG_Swansea on Saturday 03 February 18 22:26 GMT (UK)
Hello Readers,

I have spent some time researching my wife's ancestors and have created a family tree based upon the UK censes of 1841 through to 1911, with additional research from family and other sources.  It's become clear that further in depth investigation of Ruth's Great Grandfather could well be a credible exercise.

Benjamin David Pope (b: 1853, Stretham, Cambridgeshire) and his wife Flora (nee Cox, b: 1850, Wrington, Somerset) arrived in Durban, New Year 1884 where BDP worked on the construction of the railway that passed through Howick and Estcourt, Natal.  Whilst in Natal two children were born:
     Emily Laura Annie POPE, born: Howick, Natal; 3 November 1887, &
     Edward Benjamin POPE, born: Estcourt, Natal; 20 April 1890.
               They all arrived back in the UK on Christmas Day 1891.

I have a dream of obtaining birth certificates for each of the two children and have spent some time reading a number of threads/ discussions within the South Africa Forum and elsewhere and am beginning to think that I might be embarking on a task with an uncertain outcome.  I would appreciate any helpful pointers as to what path to take and what chance of success might be expected?

I have also tried searching for any newspapers covering the Howick/ Estcourt areas of Natal for the 1880~1890 era, but did not have any significant success.  Might I enquire if there are any such newspapers to be found 'online' and where they might be found.

Thank you for reading,  JohnG_Swansea, UK
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: groom on Saturday 03 February 18 23:03 GMT (UK)
Hi John. I can't help you, but I'm marking this thread as I had a similar thread here 10 years ago. It will be interesting to see if any new resources have opened up.

This was my previous thread if it is of any help. http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=318784.0
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: Catherine Wait on Sunday 04 February 18 17:35 GMT (UK)
Hi JohnG, sorry I can't give you a direct answer but this site https://archive.org/stream/00ingrgoog#page/n124/mode/2up (The Colony of Natal: An official illustrated handbook and rialway guide) is a description of the railway line from Pietermaritzburg to Ladysmith and area, you might find the background info intersting. 

You are not going to find online newspapers in SA for that period - there might be copies of the local newspapers in the Estcourt or local museum, problem is I don't think you will get a response if you contact them to check for you.  Museums are very understaffed in SA, and nowdays there is very little interest from the government in colonial history, so there are only a few dedicated people trying to hold onto our heritage and they are spread very thin.

I have a similar family history - ggf with wife and first two children came out in 1885 and worked on Natal Government Railways (NGR) but my family stayed on.  Children born alone the railway line as it progressed - 1888 child born Nottingham Road Station (Between Howick and Estcourt) so your dates fit with the progress of the railways.

I am curious to know if there was a scheme to bring workers out to work on the railways, as I would assume the cost of bringing a family out to SA by a railway worker in England would be hard found.

Sorry, not much help.

Happy huntting

Catherine
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: groom on Sunday 04 February 18 18:39 GMT (UK)
Catherine - I presume it isn't possible to get birth certificates for these dates?
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: iluleah on Sunday 04 February 18 18:47 GMT (UK)
This may help http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/birth-marriage-death-sea-or-abroad/
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: JohnG_Swansea on Sunday 04 February 18 19:44 GMT (UK)
Good evening both,

Groom: Gosh with 19k4 posts, I do indeed thank you for your reply, it has yet again confirmed there are a significant number of individuals who are prepared to help others with their research projects.

I thank you for the link to your earlier thread on a very similar enquiry, which as it happens, I had already read with considerable interest prior to my penning my opening post.

I have a feeling that this thread might well be read by other subscribers with considerable interest.

Catherine Wait: Likewise I thank you for your reply, unfortunately the link you provided finished up with the following report:

"The item you have requested has a problem with one or more of the metadata files that describe it, which prevents us from displaying this page.
If you would like to report this problem as an error report, you may do so here."

It is not immediately clear to me whose website this is but I'm sure I've seen this 'page banner' in the recent past.

As it happens I have a possibly similar document titled: "The Opening of the Railway between Durban and Pietermaritzburg - 100 Years Ago", the source of the document being: http://www.natalia.org.za/Natalia/no10.html scroll to pages 34~40

I also have a link to a somewhat larger document, the original being some 300 pages, although the pdf version has been expanded to 337 pages.  Could this be the one behind the faulty link?  ..  ..  ..  and the link is:

https://ia802701.us.archive.org/10/items/natalanillustra00ingrgoog/natalanillustra00ingrgoog.pdf
There are anumber of lead-in pages, may I suggest readers jump to pdf page 9 or 10.

Whilst I have been preparing this 'post' I see a further contribution to the thread from: iluleah I have yet to visit the offered link but I surely will as soon as this post is successfully up loaded to Rootschat.

May I provisionally thank you all for your contributions and I guess I'll be posting further contributions in the days to come.

Thank you JohnG_Swansea
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: pampoen on Monday 05 February 18 06:31 GMT (UK)
As to applying for birth certificates. Unfortunately the new government has put in staff who on the whole have no idea or interest in helping. I may be wrong but I think one needs to be relative and apply in person in South Africa to get a birth certificate. You may be able to apply through your local South African embassy.
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: Catherine Wait on Monday 05 February 18 06:59 GMT (UK)
Hi JohnG, Sorry about the link that didn't work, I've tried again
https://archive.org/stream/colonynatalanof00ingrgoog#page/n218/mode/2up.

"As it happens I have a possibly similar document titled: "The Opening of the Railway between Durban and Pietermaritzburg - 100 Years Ago", the source of the document being: http://www.natalia.org.za/Natalia/no10.html scroll to pages 34~40" 
[/pre]
This is about the Durban to Pietermaritzburg line which opened 1880.

The line which you would be interested in would be from Pietermaritzburg to Ladysmith, work started in 1883.  Howick and Estcourt are along this section.

The other link you posted is similar but not what I was trying to send you, it is also a railway guide but it was the second guide to be published.  I was trying to send the first railway guide by J Forsyth. I hope the new link works!!!!!

However, in having a look around the internet for you, I have found the answer to my own question.   The following is an extract from "Mol's Genealogy Blog"

"Railway workers of varying levels of skill were imported from Britain specifically for the development of the Natal rail network. The selected lists below show contingents of platelayers* ‘engaged by the Crown Agents for service on Natal Government Railways’ and brought out, most with their families, in 1885 on these and other vessels. The date shown is that of arrival at Natal and where not otherwise stated all were accompanied by wives and in some cases, children.

Some of the passengers' names shown here appear in the Natal Civil Service Lists, giving clues as to their later careers. It’s evident that many of them settled permanently in Natal."

My ggfather is listed on the arrival's list!!!

Groom:  I doubt you will get official birth certificates - you would have to apply to Dept of Home Affairs and the application form requires all the details to be completed, they simply use the information you have provided. 

Regards
Catherine
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: groom on Monday 05 February 18 09:40 GMT (UK)
Thanks Catherine and Pampoen, that is what I thought. As it is only a side line I doubt if I’d be able to get the certificate. It was just interesting that someone born in South Africa suddenly popped up in my tree and that’s what lead to my research - as you can see from my earlier thread it also lead to finding a distant living relative.

I’ll follow up those links you’ve given John - you never know!
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: Catherine Wait on Monday 05 February 18 11:50 GMT (UK)
Groom Not sure if you want to make this a separate thread: Your g/uncle(?) Charles Howell was definitely working on the railways in South Africa.  Surety for A Howell F 28 married arriving on the "Anglian" 6/2/1890 is given as C H Howell NGR Durban. NGR - Natal Government Railways.

A quick search didn't reveal when Charles arrives in SA, let me know if you have a date.

Regards
Catherine
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: groom on Monday 05 February 18 12:43 GMT (UK)
Thanks Catherine - I've added that to my old thread so that I don't hi-jack John's thread

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=318784.0
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: JohnG_Swansea on Monday 05 February 18 18:05 GMT (UK)
Hi JohnG, Sorry about the link that didn't work,   ..  ..  ..  Quite a big Snip, Snip  ..  ..  ..  ..

However, in having a look around the internet for you, I have found the answer to my own question.   The following is an extract from "Mol's Genealogy Blog"

"Railway workers of varying levels of skill were imported from Britain specifically for the development of the Natal rail network. The selected lists below show contingents of platelayers* ‘engaged by the Crown Agents for service on Natal Government Railways’ and brought out, most with their families, in 1885 on these and other vessels. The date shown is that of arrival at Natal and where not otherwise stated all were accompanied by wives and in some cases, children.
Another bigish Snip, Snip  ..  ..  ..
Regards
Catherine
Catherine: I was intrigued with the words (now) in red ink and have spent some time trying to find the original quotation so as to read the rest of the item, with the intention of tracking down and searching through the arrivals lists looking for any lists relating to arrivals in Durban for the early weeks of 1884, to see if I can find mention of Benjamin David & Flora POPE.

Would it be possible for you to provide the full address of the quotation?

I now follow-on with a rather longer shot!  Do you by any chance have knowledge of the whereabouts of the arrivals lists mentioned in the quotation.  My researches here in the UK indicate that UK passenger lists (outgoing) were not commenced until 1890, some six or seven years after BDP left these shores and my success rate for finding documents in the South African (Natal) system(s) is best left without comment!

Groom:  Thank you for the polite consideration in not hi-jacking the original direction of this thread.

JohnG_Swansea
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: Catherine Wait on Tuesday 06 February 18 06:52 GMT (UK)
Hi JohnG,

1.  The link for the 1880's railway workers to Natal is https://molegenealogy.blogspot.co.za/search?q=1885+railways.  I have asked for their research source as I would very much like to follow up on that.  I did check for any Pope's without success.  However:.....

2.  As your arrival dates and information seemed sound, I never double checked that until now.  I seem to have found some conflicting info.  As you have found out searching records in SA is not easy, but one of the worth while sites is www.eggsa.org.  They have transcribed some of the shipping lists, the following extract is from the site - arriving on the "SS Spartan" 22/2/1884 is the following

"Surety Name   Immigrant Name   Sex   Age   Marital Status   Trade   
  information
 
Wolff Sam, Estcourt    POPE, B.D.    M    Adult    Married    Stone mason and wife     
                              POPE, F.A.    F    Adult    Married    "          

The link to this search on eggsa didn't work, so you will have to do the search yourself - from the home page, right hand side under eggsa library, click on passanger list project then on the passenger list project page on the left click on search passenger lists.  Leave port as all and simply search for surname "Pope".  Scroll down to you find B D Pope and click on the button "B D Pope in context of the list" and you will get all arrivals for that ship and the shipping route etc.

So, if this is your B D Pope and wife F Pope, then they came out under surety of Sam Wolff of Estcourt.  My thoughts are:  As a stone mason, there would be work building bridges for the railways and if my memory is correct, there are stone bridges on the line in the Estcourt area, or, there are numerous stone buildings in the town and Sam Wolff was a builder who needed a accomplished mason and the railways happened a bit later.  The railway got to Estcourt in 1885.

Going back to comment 1. above.  If we can find records in Natal Archives in Pietermaritzburg (HELP any archivists in PMB) I can request the files and go and photograph the relevant info, however this could take months to accomplish or never !!! I'll keep a list of names of railway workers and try and look them all up. Groom:  If you are still following this thread, I'll keep your research in mind as well.

Regards
Catherine

Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: JohnG_Swansea on Tuesday 06 February 18 08:46 GMT (UK)
Catherine: What a 'Game Changer' of a reply! 

I along with my wife have two rather busy days ahead of us, with Grandparent duties.  I will not have sufficient calm-time available to give your reply the attention it deserves until the evenings of both days, it is almost certain that I will not post again until, purhaps, Thursday.

In the meanwhile I am sending you a PM which I hope you will find of interest.

JohnG.
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: 3sillydogs on Tuesday 06 February 18 09:23 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Here is the link to the baptism of Edward Benjamin on Family Search, unfortunately amongst as yet unindexed records, scroll down to the second page of the image it's the first entry.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GTWB-XXX?i=53&wc=SFVZ-82C%3A44975801%2C51425101%2C51677701%2C51677702&cc=1468076

Sorry it's so long.

Can't seem to find Emily's but will have a look elsewhere.

Sue
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: Catherine Wait on Tuesday 06 February 18 10:29 GMT (UK)
Hi Sue + JohnG, On the baptism of Edward Benjamin his mother Flora has a second name ??? Ang??? and BDP's occupation is contractor to NGR. Slowly the answers unfold!!!

Catherine
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: 3sillydogs on Tuesday 06 February 18 11:12 GMT (UK)
Can't seem to find Emily's.  She doesn't appear on the Howick register for the time, nor any of the towns around Estcourt.  It is possible of course that those images have not been put online as yet.  She may have been baptised somewhere else entirely as well.

Looks like Flora's second name could be Augusta

Sue
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: JohnG_Swansea on Thursday 08 February 18 08:59 GMT (UK)
Hi Readers one and all:

Catherine: Firstly to post #15 above, I can confirm that Flora had the additional name of Augusta, which I now realise I failed to show in my opening post.

Thank you for your comprehensive reply #12, I have now worked through your guidance on the arrival of 'BD & F' at Durban and having seen the results myself, I am content to believe these entries are indeed the two Pope's that Ruth already holds a significant amount of information on, that has been passed down to the oldest child since the time of Emily Laura.  Sufficient to say that I have captured the source of this new information for inclusion in the ever growing document that is being assembled for the benefit of those that follow us.  Although currently there is little interest being shown by 'our two'!  Having said that, when I was their ages I hadn't realised the significance of family history.

your reply included:
>> Scroll down to you find B D Pope and click on the button "B D Pope in context of the list" and you will get all arrivals for that ship and the shipping route etc.
Whilst we could see that SS Spartan arrived at Durban on 22 February 1884, we did not see a route nor a port of departure.  We are still working on identifying the PoD.

As is so often the case by answering one question another arises, in this case the subject of a 'surety'.  As this is the first occasion that our family history has led us 'offshore' we are uncertain what event Sam Wolff of Estcourt was supplying surety against.  Is there amongst your knowledge base any indication of the Why's and Wherefores' of 'Surety' in this instance?

This offshore investigation is turning out to be quite intriguing.

Thank you again, JohnG_Swansea
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: seaweed on Thursday 08 February 18 19:31 GMT (UK)
SPARTAN, Union Steamship Company, Official number 82421, Captain A M Watt. Sailed from Southampton 24/Jan/1884, arrived/sailed Plymouth for mails 25/Jan. Sailed Madeira 31/Jan Arrived Cape Town 10pm 16/Feb/1884.
 SPARTAN was built in 1881 by J & G Thompson & Co. at Glasgow with a tonnage of 3487grt, a length of 364ft 6in, a beam of 42ft 7in and a service speed of 12 knots.
Sister of the TROJAN she was completed for the mail run in 1881 but transferred to the Intermediate service in 1889.
In November 1899 she was used as a troopship during the Boer War. Surplus to requirements when Union-Castle was formed in 1900 she was sold to A. Fragala of Catania, Sicily and renamed Fume. After a further two years service she was broken up in Italy in April 1902.
Her 1884 logbooks and Crew Agreements should be at Southampton Archives. If it has survived, the ships Logbook for the time in question, may give details on the conduct of the voyage, plus accurate times of arrival and sailing.
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: 3sillydogs on Friday 09 February 18 11:29 GMT (UK)

This extract from Shelagh Spencer's book on the European Settler Population of Natal may shed some light on the "surety"

Government-sponsored immigration

The last addition to Natal’s white population before the advent of the 1860s was the result of a Govenment scheme instituted in 1857, whereby the Government would pay the passages of intending immigrants as long as someone in the Colony would stand surety for the repayment of fares, in instalments, by the immigrants so introduced.


It is possible that this could have applied to Benjamin and his family. Sam Wolff may have been his prospective employer and had stood surety for his passage.


Sue
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: JohnG_Swansea on Saturday 10 February 18 06:30 GMT (UK)
SPARTAN, Union Steamship Company, Official number 82421, Captain A M Watt. Sailed from Southampton 24/Jan/1884, arrived/sailed Plymouth for mails 25/Jan. Sailed Madeira 31/Jan Arrived Cape Town 10pm 16/Feb/1884.
 SPARTAN was built in 1881 by J & G Thompson & Co. at Glasgow with a tonnage of 3487grt, a length of 364ft 6in, a beam of 42ft 7in and a service speed of 12 knots.
Sister of the TROJAN she was completed for the mail run in 1881 but transferred to the Intermediate service in 1889.
In November 1899 she was used as a troopship during the Boer War. Surplus to requirements when Union-Castle was formed in 1900 she was sold to A. Fragala of Catania, Sicily and renamed Fume. After a further two years service she was broken up in Italy in April 1902.
Her 1884 logbooks and Crew Agreements should be at Southampton Archives. If it has survived, the ships Logbook for the time in question, may give details on the conduct of the voyage, plus accurate times of arrival and sailing.
Thank you seaweed for your contribution, you have clearly found a path to the passenger list for the journey of SS Spartan commencing in Southampton on 24th January 1884.  Are you able to provide that path so that I can include the document as a source to this 'event' in the Pope 'family tree'?
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: JohnG_Swansea on Saturday 10 February 18 08:27 GMT (UK)

This extract from Shelagh Spencer's book on the European Settler Population of Natal may shed some light on the "surety"

Government-sponsored immigration

The last addition to Natal’s white population before the advent of the 1860s was the result of a Govenment scheme instituted in 1857, whereby the Government would pay the passages of intending immigrants as long as someone in the Colony would stand surety for the repayment of fares, in instalments, by the immigrants so introduced.


It is possible that this could have applied to Benjamin and his family. Sam Wolff may have been his prospective employer and had stood surety for his passage.

Sue
I thank you for this explanation, there is nothing in the bundle of papers that has been passed down to successive descendants of the Pope family of any surety.  However the explanation is clear and completely credible.

This thread has been most interesting and has added considerably to the background detail of this branch of the family tree.  Thank you indeed.

JohnG_Swansea
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: seaweed on Saturday 10 February 18 16:44 GMT (UK)
Thank you seaweed for your contribution, you have clearly found a path to the passenger list for the journey of SS Spartan commencing in Southampton on 24th January 1884.  Are you able to provide that path so that I can include the document as a source to this 'event' in the Pope 'family tree'?

The information I furnished was taken from various newspaper reports, primarily "Lloyd's List"
As far as I am aware, UK Outward Passenger Lists before 1890 have not survived. I am unsure of the position regarding Incoming Passenger Lists from South African Sources. I am sure that someone can give you that information.There may be mention of the Pope family contained in the vessels logbook especially if one of them suffered death or serious illness.
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: JohnG_Swansea on Monday 12 February 18 07:49 GMT (UK)
The information I furnished was taken from various newspaper reports, primarily "Lloyd's List"
As far as I am aware, UK Outward Passenger Lists before 1890 have not survived. I am unsure of the position regarding Incoming Passenger Lists from South African Sources. I am sure that someone can give you that information.There may be mention of the Pope family contained in the vessels logbook especially if one of them suffered death or serious illness.
I have found UK Incoming Passenger lists on Ancestry, when I typed each of the four names of my target family, I was offered a number of similar names with a random selection of Port of Embarkation from around the world. I then realised that by using the various options on the screen I had access to bundles of lists sorted by year 1891, 1892, and so on, each bundle contained a series of randomly sorted pages for single journeys, so having selected my year of interest (1891) I worked through the bundle, ignoring the lists where the journey commenced in the Americas and paying particular interest to journeys commencing in Africa, India or China.

What I found interesting was that whilst each 'list' showed passengers individual port of embarkation, in many, if not most cases the list was 'transcribed' showing the same port of embarkation for every passenger on the list.  However the list containing the four names of my family of interest (see the opening post) were not found in the year of interest, nor the year either side.  So I shall now commence a search using the other techniques mentioned in your post.

Thank you JohnG_Swansea
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: JohnG_Swansea on Tuesday 03 April 18 19:39 BST (UK)
Hello Seaweed & other readers.

I now have details of the Pope Family journey home from Natal during the month of October 1891, including a copy of the four page Passenger List, being the ship MOOR sailing from Durban calling at Algoa Bay, Cape Town, Maderia and finishing at Southampton [see Ancestry, UK Incoming Passenger lists 1878-1960]. The search was somewhat frustrated because no first names were used on the Passenger List, being substituted with Mr Pope, Mrs Pope and two Miss Pope's.  However, there is neither a Durban departure date, nor a Southampton arrival date shown on the Passenger List and my search of the Lloyds List website has drawn a blank.  Whilst I'm comfortable with the information and images I have gathered so far, the icing on the cake, would be to establish the two missing dates.

Any pointers to such sources would be appreciated.

Edit: I have just realised that the four page Passenger List is signed at the foot of the last page by the Ship's Master on 5th October 91, so all that remains now is to hopefully establish when the journey commenced at Durban.

JohnG_Swansea.
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: seaweed on Tuesday 03 April 18 23:50 BST (UK)
Hello Seaweed & other readers

Edit: I have just realised that the four page Passenger List is signed at the foot of the last page by the Ship's Master on 5th October 91, so all that remains now is to hopefully establish when the journey commenced at Durban.

JohnG_Swansea.

SS MOOR official number 82428. The vessels 1891 Logbooks and Crew Agreement should tell you when she departed Durban.
If they have survived, they may be obtained via Southampton Archives.
Website: http://www.southampton.gov.uk/
Quote the ships official number in all correspondence.

Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: JohnG_Swansea on Wednesday 04 April 18 09:52 BST (UK)
Good Morning Seaweed,

Many thanks for your guidance, the suggested task has been added to my 'to do' list and I shall in the fullness of time let you know what level of success I achieve.

JohnG_Swansea.
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: JohnG_Swansea on Saturday 21 July 18 00:01 BST (UK)
Hi,

Here is the link to the baptism of Edward Benjamin on Family Search, unfortunately amongst as yet unindexed records, scroll down to the second page of the image it's the first entry.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GTWB-XXX?i=53&wc=SFVZ-82C%3A44975801%2C51425101%2C51677701%2C51677702&cc=1468076

Sorry it's so long.

Can't seem to find Emily's but will have a look elsewhere.

Sue
Apologies for the delay in replying, I have been distracted by work on a more local project, albeit involving the history of a local railway line here in Swansea.

I now have on record here, an image of the baptism record for Emily Laura Pope, at S. Mark, Karkloof, and S. Luke, Howick, in the county of Pietermaritzburg, in the years 1886; page 47. There is a URL address across the bottom of the document somewhat similar to the URL you offered me in your message quoted above.  However, when the URL on the image is used the response is (words to the effect) the image can-not be found.  I have tried to find a route through the Familysearch website to the image but have not been successful.

Once again may I thank you for your earlier messages and the help offered therein, and apologise for the delay in acknowledging that help.

JohnG_Swansea.
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: 3sillydogs on Thursday 02 August 18 11:01 BST (UK)

Apologies for the delay, but like you got sidetracked by other things and have just now got the chance to log in and see what I missed.

Is the problem that you can't access the image for that address?  I have downloaded it so if that is the case I can email it to you.

Sue
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: JohnG_Swansea on Saturday 04 August 18 18:16 BST (UK)
Hello again Sue,

With the help of the link you provided me with I was able to download the baptism record for Edward B. Pope, then things became somewhat more complicated!

Knowing that the record for Edward was now found, I second guessed that there would be a good chance there might also be a similar record for Emily Laura Pope way back in 1886 whilst her parents were in the Howick district.

In the intervening time I had been provided with a link (a short-cut!) jumping directly to a substantial, three column list of Anglican Churches in Natal, and I then selected and progressed through the list for the one church in Howick, until I reached the page for 1886 and there was the entry for the baptism of Emily Laura, a copy of which is now safely secured here in my archive.

What I cannot understand is that when I enter the familysearch(dot)org website via their homepage and use the onsite search facility I simply cannot find my way to the same two images.  I have lodged an enquiry with their help desk and have received back, what appears to be, a standard reply, which points me towards 'Catalog' and then 'Keywords' (so far so good) but I have tried all sorts of single and multiple keywords, but have failed to find a combination that leads to that three column list of Anglican churches!   I am currently trying to make telephone contact with their local, Family History Centre here in Swansea, but I have yet to make contact when there is anyone in attendance at the premises.

So I am indeed so pleased that you were able to assist me with your prior knowledge of how their website actually works, for which I thank you again.

Best Regards, JohnG_Swansea
Title: Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
Post by: 3sillydogs on Monday 06 August 18 08:05 BST (UK)

Hi

Usually the reason for that is the image may be among unindexed collections that are waiting for transcriptions and checking before being posted to the website.  I found the image for Emily on unindexed records. 

It is worth checking back for South African records as they are being added to regularly.  There is a dedicated group of indexers/reviewers doing only South African records and they complete a project very quickly.

Glad you managed to find it and have it safely downloaded.

Sue