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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Deskman on Saturday 03 February 18 23:58 GMT (UK)
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Any help with this text, especially red text is much appreciated.
I have found this piece particularly difficult.
"needs”, We L & I called at Brights & had tea xxx after xx xxx xxx rather xxxx xxxx were there & a most extraordinary spinster named “Wooly” of a xxxx cast of features & a most ridiculous OR vindictive way of antagonising those who she disagreed with, as xxxxx xxxx xxx under her xxxxxxxx xxx had the greatest fun by keeping our connections with the Plackett Chapel quiet till just before we left & then throwing her in to most delightful state of confusion by “declaring the same” Old Bright brought the declaration about purposefully I believe. Had delightful"
With every topic I post the wonderful folk here are brightening my transcription from dark uncertainty to smiles and wonder. Thank you.
The bold text is thanks to help here.
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Is it
'old Bright brought the declaration about purposefully.
Definitely 'brought' and not 'bought', and 'declaration' has the same
'tion' ending as you have transcribed for the ending of 'connection'
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Thanks Goldie61
Bought was my silly typo but I lacked the confidence on declaration. I'll amend the text now.
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filling in the xxxx's..some possibilities...had tea AND AFTER FEW MINS RAY'S RATHER JOLLY GIRLS were there AND......ANGRY cast..under her DISAPPROVALS ABOUT WHO HAD THE GREATEST FUN...? :) Deb
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Hmmm... ???
"needs”, We L & I called at Brights & had tea xxx after few mins Ray’s rather jolly girls (I read “fools” at first, but I think Deb is right) were there & a most extraordinary spinster named “Wooly” of a (not sure about angry – the first letter is not his usual kind of “a” and there is what looks like an “s” in the middle. I was wondering about “dusky” with a “g” instead of a “k”, but I’m probably going waaaay too far out on a limb here…) cast of features & a most rustick(*) way of (I don’t see antagonising here. Could it be a form of anathema**?) those who she disagreed with, as xxxxx xxxx xxx under her (disapproves?) xxx. (We?) had the greatest fun by keeping our connections with the Plackett Chapel quiet till just before we left & then throwing her in to most delightful state of confusion by “declaring the same” Old Bright brought the declaration about purposefully I believe. Had delightful"
*Rustick: Obsolete form of rustic
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rustick
**Anathema:
• 1mass noun Something or someone that one vehemently dislikes.
‘racial hatred was anathema to her’
More example sentences
Synonyms
• 2A formal curse by a pope or a council of the Church, excommunicating a person or denouncing a doctrine.
‘the Pope laid special emphasis on the second of these anathemas’
More example sentences
Synonyms
1. 2.1literary A strong curse.
‘the sergeant clutched the ruined communicator, muttering anathemas’
BOOKBOX! Where are you?!!! :o
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a most ridiculous OR vindictive way of antagonising those who she disagreed with,
I think it's vindictive. Like Karen, I don't go for antagonising, I think its anathemising
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Some thoughts on this bit:
"..those who she disagreed with, as xxxxx xxxx xxx under her (disapproves?) xxx. (We?) had the greatest fun..."
I suggest:
"...those who she disagreed with, as Methodists cam under her dissaproves strongly. Whe had the greatest fun..."
At least that's how it appears to be written. Is the spelling OK elsewhere? Or was he rushing and the spelling and grammar went a bit wrong? 'Whe' - changed his mind half way through the word?
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Thank you goldie61, iforani, Karen McDonald, JenB & arthurk,
I applaud your analyses and arguments. I have tried to collate the whole into a text that is the current 'best guess'.
'needs” we, L & I called at Brights & had tea xxx after few mins Rays rather jolly girls were there & a most extraordinary spinster named “Wooly” of a rustic cast of features & a most vindictive way of anathemising those who she disagreed with, as Methodists came under her disapproves strongly whe had the greatest fun by keeping our connections with the Plackett Chapel quiet till just before we left & then throwing her in to most delightful state of confusion by “declaring the same” Old Bright brought the declaration about purposefully I believe. Had delightful'
I am not sure I fully understand it but my vocabulary has been extended. The general spelling and grammar quality is so below the writer's usual standard i am surprised we have anything like this text. I had been resisting the idea that it was Ray because I have failed to find any candidate for his identity. There are 17 other uses of 'jolly' in the diary, this one must be the most ill-formed. Methodists is now so obvious!
I will go back to the script to see if I can tease out more. Thank you
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Methodists! :D
As you say, it's obvious when you know.
(Thanks, arthurk!)
I agree about the handwriting & spelling in this one. Maybe they didn't only have tea to drink at Bright's...
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It seems to be pretty well covered now, such as it is. But I do think in the last line that it's purposely (not purposefully).
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Thanks for your refinement Bookbox.
The transcription now reads
needs” we, L & I called at Brights & had tea xxx after few mins Rays rather jolly girls were there & a most extraordinary spinster named “Wooly” of a rustic cast of features & a most vindictive way of anathemising those who she disagreed with, as Methodists came under her disapproves strongly whe had the greatest fun by keeping our connections with the Placket Chapel quiet till just before we left & then throwing her in to most delightful state of confusion by “declaring the same” Old Bright brought the declaration about purposely I believe. Had delightful'
Not the most rewarding diary entry.
It doesn't help deciphering the scrawl but I may have identified 'Wooly'. It looks like it was Hannah Woollams born c1828. Married by 1861 but living and working as a cook in a household without a husband in the census. By 1881 she was a housekeeper (still married with absent husband) to a neighbour of the Brights who was a younger single farmer. Widowed by 1891 she was running the household as late as September 1909! She died late 1910 aged 83.
The diarist refers to Wooly as a spinster - perhaps the husband was anathemised and the marriage denied.
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Thanks for that, Deskman!
It's nice to get a bit of background info. I find this whole thing absolutely fascinating! Wish I had something like that to wade through. :)
Or maybe not - I probably wouldn't get anything else done! ;D
Best regards,
Karen
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Thanks for your message Karen McDonald. I know I am in this deep.
Having found two other words in the diary that I think are both rustic I'm doubting the rustic of rustic cast here.
All three examples should be posted here. Any thoughts welcomed.
Can I also cheekily ask for any ideas about the glyph after the 1st (p4)?
I think it reads
"consisting of one or two farmers & families & yokels. Choir very vigorous & attempts intonations in rather curious way pronouncing somewhat rustic OT"
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Thanks for your message Karen McDonald. I know I am in this deep.
Having found two words in the diary that I think are both rustic I'm doubting the rustic of rustic cast here.
I think things have got confused here. My suggestion of "rustic(k)" was for her way of anathemising, not for her cast of features, i.e.:
a most rustic(k) way of anathemising
but a few other contributors said it looks like "vindictive" - which I can see, too.
Can I also cheekily ask for any ideas about the glyph after the 1st (p4)? OT?
I'm a bit divvy today. ::) I'm not sure what you mean...
I think it could be:
consisting of one or two farmers & families & yokels. Choir very vigorous & attempts intonations in rather curious way pronunciation somewhat rustic XX.
Whatever the "XX" is, it has a full stop after it but the next word looks as though it begins with a lower-case "b" (poss. "believe" <?>). So 2 letters as an abbreviation for something? Looks almost like "OI"... ???
P.S. I'm glad you got "intonation". All I could see was melonalim. ;D
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Apologies for causing such a muddle Karen Macdonald.
I now understand the word before cast is not rustic and you had not suggested that. Iforani neatly suggested angry, I love the sense but I feel the spelling is so bad I have doubt.
With your suggestion of pronunciation and guessing XX as OT (Old Testament) the fuller phrase is "consisting of one or two farmers & families & yokels. Choir very vigorous & attempts intonations in rather curious way pronunciation somewhat rustic OT. believe in the holy ghost”
Again, sorry. I hope this helps.
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No apologies necessary whatsoever! :)
OT makes sense.
Karen
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As he's complaining of the rustic pronunciation, I think he's trying to reproduce the way they pronounced the words of the Creed, saying "OI believe in the holy ghost", instead of "I believe ...". Just a suggestion.
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Once again that is so elegant Bookbox. Thank you.
I'll put the 'xxxxx cast' to bed and move on.
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As he's complaining of the rustic pronunciation, I think he's trying to reproduce the way they pronounced the words of the Creed, saying "OI believe in the holy ghost", instead of "I believe ...". Just a suggestion.
I'm not 100% convinced, but I do like the idea. :D
Reminds me of my childhood. We used to go down to Cornwall every year on holiday and I noticed that the locals all had a car sticker which read "Oi be no emmet, oi be ansome".
In those heady days without internet it took a while to find out that "emmet" is a derogatory Cornish term for a tourist. ;D
Oh, them were the days, aye...
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Once again that is so elegant Bookbox. Thank you.
I'll put the 'xxxxx cast' to bed and move on.
We might get it eventually ... perhaps a clue will pop up elsewhere.
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Thanks Bookbox - I should have sent congratulations on your 4,000th RootsChat post.
;D CONGRATULATIONS ;D
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Thank you, I hadn't even noticed. I'm a relative newcomer. There are many very much longer-serving hands than I. :)