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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: sandyjose on Sunday 04 February 18 20:50 GMT (UK)

Title: Finding a marriage
Post by: sandyjose on Sunday 04 February 18 20:50 GMT (UK)

 I've been looking for the marriage of Gordon Elliott Rutledge to Gladys Marion Compton in Ontario around 1920.I contacted the registry office for Ontario but the couldn't find the marriage.
  Can anyone help please
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: nanny jan on Sunday 04 February 18 21:19 GMT (UK)
Perhaps they married later than 1920 and somewhere else;  there is a death registration for a Gladys Marion Rutledge (aged 59) in British Columbia in 1963.
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 04 February 18 21:34 GMT (UK)
also this on Find A Grave:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21087141
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 04 February 18 23:01 GMT (UK)

Using info from FaG, the 1921 census has him unmarried, aged 18, machinist living with father and step-mother

59 Peter Street, Toronto South.

So married between June 1921 and birth of first child in 1923.

Gadget
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: venelow on Monday 05 February 18 04:11 GMT (UK)
Hi Sandy

Do you have any other information about Gladys? Parents' names. Where was she born?

Venelow
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: bbart on Monday 05 February 18 06:51 GMT (UK)
The death registration in BC for Gladys Marion Rutledge shows her maiden name to be Compton.

Image here: http://search-collections.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/Image/Genealogy/e774d18e-5d0b-4964-87c2-10b4c4200de7

A possible death registration for Gordon (looks like he remarried if it's the right one) is shown here:
http://search-collections.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/Image/Genealogy/1a4a7f93-d44a-408b-8259-dea616783b7f
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Monday 05 February 18 09:14 GMT (UK)
The Find a Grave Ref I gave above has full details of both Gordon and Gladys, their parents, siblings and children. Accounts are written by their granddaughter, who knew them both:

also this on Find A Grave:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21087141

It's more of a family tree with narrative than the usual Find a Grave entry.


Gadget
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Monday 05 February 18 11:27 GMT (UK)
An interesting  marriage on 2 November 1820, St Johns, Toronto  of a Gladys Compton, aged 18, born Ripon, England to an Austin Cyril Ayre. Father given as Charles Compton.


This info fits with the information on Find a Grave and  UK Birth and census info.

Could Austin have died and Gladys married as Gladys Ayre  :-\

Gadget

? possible entry on the 1921 in Simcoe East.  Entered as Gladys Hare  :-\
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: josey on Monday 05 February 18 11:49 GMT (UK)
Gadget's Gladys could be
COMPTON, GLADYS       WINTER     
GRO Reference: 1903  S Quarter in RIPON  Volume 09A  Page 70

who could be from this marriage
Marriages Jun 1889 
ABBOTT    Laura Annie        Beverley    9d   162    
COMPTON    Charles        Beverley    9d   162    
ROBINSON    William        Beverley    9d   162    
Smart    Sarah        Howden    9d   162   
WINTER    Sushannah        Beverley    9d   162


1901  RG13; Piece: 4053; Folio: 117; Page: 22
Charles Compton   33
Sushannah Compton   29
Percy Compton   10
Mary Compton   7
Harold Compton   3
Charles C Compton   1

familysearch for 1911 down at the mo.

Charles appears here
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/19088605
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Monday 05 February 18 11:52 GMT (UK)
Info has Gladys Marion immigrating in 1915.  She's not found so far on the 1921 as Gladys Compton.

Have a look at the link to Find a Grave, Josey - it seem to be a good fit  :-\

Added - clicking on the names below the text brings up their info.
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: josey on Monday 05 February 18 11:57 GMT (UK)
 :-[ :-[ just posted findagrave link as an addition then saw page 2 of thread!!
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: josey on Monday 05 February 18 12:04 GMT (UK)
? possible entry on the 1921 in Simcoe East.  Entered as Gladys Hare  :-\
Daughter Margaret's age mistranscribed as 4 - should be 1 I think.

ADDED: An Austin Ayre age 9 immigrated 1910 with mother Mary [going to husband, a builder] 43 & brother Ivor 16
Name:   Austin Ayre
Gender:   Male
Age:   9
Birth Year:   abt 1901
Date of Arrival:   18 Aug 1910
Vessel:   Corsican
Port of Arrival:   Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Port of Departure:   Liverpool, England

Birth
AYRE, AUSTIN  CYRIL     MARTIN     
GRO Reference: 1899  D Quarter in FULHAM  Volume 01A  Page 270
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Monday 05 February 18 12:14 GMT (UK)

Daughter Margaret's age mistranscribed as 4 - should be 1 I think.

Oe maybe 4 months - image is very difficult to read. (I do wish Canadian and US censuses were more like the UK ones! ).

It might be worth looking for Margaret Ayre or Hare.
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: josey on Monday 05 February 18 12:23 GMT (UK)
Struggling with that - also with Austin's death. Nothing on CWGC.
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Monday 05 February 18 12:25 GMT (UK)
Struggling with that - also with Austin's death. Nothing on CWGC.

They seem to disappear after the 1921. I've had a good look for trees. The FaG link has Gladys' first child as b. 1923 but that was with Gordon Rutledge  :-\
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Monday 05 February 18 13:07 GMT (UK)
Full info on the Compton-Ayre marriage

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKM5-CPTS
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: josey on Monday 05 February 18 13:52 GMT (UK)
Perhaps Austin did not die young & there was no Routledge/Compton-Ayre marriage?
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Monday 05 February 18 14:02 GMT (UK)
Perhaps Austin did not die young & there was no Routledge/Compton-Ayre marriage?

That is what I'm starting to conclude, Josey. 

Most of the online trees have the Compton-Rutledge  marriage as  either a vague 1920, Ontario or 1920 Carleton, Ontario but no supporting evidence  :-\
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: josey on Monday 05 February 18 16:27 GMT (UK)
I see sandyjose has been online today, wonder if she hasn't had notification that there have been replies & findings to this thread?
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: josey on Monday 05 February 18 16:49 GMT (UK)
TOT but I was looking for Austin's brother Ivor thinking that might find Austin [if he didn't die in 1921-3] & found this
https://livesofthefirstworldwar.org/lifestory/5552568
IVOR (JACK) AYRE, PIANIST Known At: 1919
From Collections Canada: "Jack Ayre, a pianist for silent films in Toronto, enlisted as a private in the Canadian Army during the First World War. He was chosen by Captain Mert Plunkett to be the pianist with the Dumbells concert party. He remained with that unit, with the rank of corporal, until demobilization, performing such favourite tunes as 'It's a Long, Long Way to Tipperary' and accompanying the singers. Ayre composed the Dumbells' theme song 'The Dumbell Rag,' which eventually sold over 10 000 copies of sheet music. This tune was often whistled by the troops as they marched to the battlefield.
On his return to Canada in 1919, Ayre joined the Dumbells as pianist when they transformed their act into a civilian touring show. He occasionally conducted the orchestra, and was the first Canadian to conduct an orchestra in a hit Broadway show (Biff, Bing, Bang at New York's Ambassador Theatre). After the demise of the Dumbells travelling show, Ayre continued to play the piano for club and charity performances. He was the last of the original Dumbells to die, passing away in 1977.
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Monday 05 February 18 17:08 GMT (UK)
Interesting, Josey  :)

I wonder if they went to US?  He just seems to disappear. I don't see any sign of Margaret, either  :-\

I noticed that Sandy had been on line, too. Notifications seem to be a possible problem.

Gadget
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: RunKitty on Monday 05 February 18 19:34 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Following up on Josey's information about Ivor Jack.... I found an obituary in the Toronto Star for Jack (May 10 1977, page B6).  It mentions much of what Josey found (and that he also played for the troops during WW2 with a group called the Lifebuoy group), and says that he leaves behind a niece named Violet Ashberry.  There is no mention of his brother.

There is also an article about the Dumbells in the Toronto Star on Aug 2 2014, page U8.  There is a photo of Jack (Ivor) playing the piano.

RK
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Monday 05 February 18 20:36 GMT (UK)
Just thinking that if Gladys did marry Austin Ayre in 1920 (and all evidence suggests this), she and Gordon may have married (if they did)  much later and thus less than 75 years ago, so difficult to find. Nothing in newspapers so far.

Gadget
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: RunKitty on Monday 05 February 18 20:46 GMT (UK)
Trying to find other obits etc in the papers as well.  Looking for  Ernest Ayre (father of Jack/Ivor and Austin)... found a notice that his wife Mary Ellen Ayre of Ottawa was going to apply to Parliament for a divorce from Ernest Ayre, late of Toronto but now of parts unknown, builder - on the grounds of adultery and desertion.   November 1924.

RK
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Monday 05 February 18 21:01 GMT (UK)
So it might run in the family, RK. 

On the Find a Grave link there is a pic of who the granddaughter thinks is Gladys but no source given. The wedding dress does look 1920s.
 
Any chance of finding  wedding announcement 1921-1930 ish for Gordon and Gladys - Ontario or BC  :-\


Gadget
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: josey on Monday 05 February 18 21:27 GMT (UK)
she and Gordon may have married (if they did)  much later and thus less than 75 years ago, so difficult to find.
Good thinking.

Good find RK.
says that he leaves behind a niece named Violet Ashberry .  There is no mention of his brother.
No other siblings mentioned on immigration other than Austin. Wonder if he changed his name to Ashberry? Might be worth seeing who she is though she could be related to Jack/Ivor's wife Sarah Ann Smithson.
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: sandyjose on Monday 05 February 18 22:11 GMT (UK)

 Thanks again for all the help,I will follow up on your suggestions and see what I find
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: sandyjose on Tuesday 06 February 18 22:25 GMT (UK)

 I have found the marriage of Gladys Compton and Austin Cyril Ayre it took place on the 2 Nov 1920 in York Ontario.Is it possible that he,did a runner for whatever reason? I can't find anything about him in latter years in Canada or Uk.
  Whether she married Gordon Rutledge I don't know,if she did,was she committing  bigamy?
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 06 February 18 22:33 GMT (UK)
Full info on the Compton-Ayre marriage

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKM5-CPTS


Also, they were together in 1921 in Simcoe East with daughter Margaret. After that he seems to disappear. We've all done lots of searching as you can see from the postings on this thread.

No sign of a marriage to Gordon Rutledge  but if there was one and no divorce and Austin was still alive, it would have been bigamous.

Gadget
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: sandyjose on Tuesday 06 February 18 22:42 GMT (UK)
 I contacted the registery office in Toronto,who directed me to archives,they couldn't find a Rutledge/Compton marriage but now it's looks like it's Rutledge/Ayre I'll try again for the 1st marriage.If there was a second it must have been some years later.
  What does it say on the birth certificates of their children,does it give a marriage date?
  Having said that,I've come across people who lied about marriages on a childs birth certificate.
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: sandyjose on Tuesday 06 February 18 22:57 GMT (UK)
Gadget Hi
  Are you saying that Gladys and Austin had a daughter Margaret?
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 06 February 18 23:00 GMT (UK)
If they find anything, do let us know.

I wonder if it's possible to find out and contact the granddaughter on the Find a Grave link?
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 06 February 18 23:01 GMT (UK)
Gadget Hi
  Are you saying that Gladys and Austin had a daughter Margaret?

On the 1921 census in Simcoe East. I'll see if I can find the link again.
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 06 February 18 23:10 GMT (UK)
?204 Denelday Street, Simcoe East (District 126).

Search on Gladys Hare. Daughter Margaret looks to be 1 on original.

Gadget

(an aside - I remember visiting  Simcoe one hot summer in the late 1960s!)
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: sandyjose on Tuesday 06 February 18 23:33 GMT (UK)

 I told Susan,the grandaughter that I would look for her grandparents marriage as she couldn't find it.That's when I found the other marriage for Gladys Crompton.I was waiting until I'm absolutely certain of the facts before contacting her.Obviously if you feel that she can help,I can't stop you contacting her. I feel it could be quite upsetting as she knew her gran Gladys had been married before and,either didn't marry Gordon or commited bigamy
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 06 February 18 23:41 GMT (UK)
I meant you contacting her. I certainly wouldn't unless she wanted me to.  I now see that you're doing it for her.

She seems very fond of them both. If I were you I wouldn't mention anything to her unless you're absolutely certain.  You could ask her about the wedding photo though. That might help getting a date and in finding a marriage for them.


PS. Have you tried finding a marriage for them in BC?
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: sandyjose on Wednesday 07 February 18 00:34 GMT (UK)
No I haven't tried looking for the Compton/Ayre marriage but I will.As you say I want to be sure of my facts before I tell her anything.I remember seeing the wedding photo but at that time I couldn't offer any info
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: josey on Wednesday 07 February 18 12:44 GMT (UK)
Are you saying that Gladys and Austin had a daughter Margaret?
This was mentioned earlier in the thread and found by Gadget as was the 1920 marriage.
? possible entry on the 1921 in Simcoe East.  Entered as Gladys Hare  :-\
Daughter Margaret's age mistranscribed as 4 - should be 1 I think.
I would try looking for this Margaret's birth, as well as Gadget's suggestion of a later marriage in BC.

I wonder if Gladys was the bridesmaid, not the bride, in the photo uploaded by the granddaughter  ???.

Josey
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: RunKitty on Wednesday 07 February 18 16:36 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Here is the 1921 census for Gladys Hare in Midland, Simcoe (that Gadget found). 

http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1921&op=img&id=e003034268

In case it is your Gladys. 

RK
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 07 February 18 16:50 GMT (UK)
Austin looks like Aus/Ast on the original - Art in the transcription.

Given Simcoe is so close to the border, I'm wondering if Austin might have gone south/east. I did have a quick look for him in US but not thorough. Also, given what RK found about the family, he might have changed his name.

Gadget
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: bbart on Wednesday 07 February 18 17:09 GMT (UK)
In trying to track the child Margaret:

With reference to that 1921 census, I think it really is Art (Arthur) Hare who married Gladys Wright.
Anc has a marriage for Margaret, daughter of Arthur and Gladys Wright, which says she was 16 (the marriage took place in 1936, so year of birth 1920ish), and that she was born in Midlands, Ontario (place of that 1921 census).  She married Edwin Cotton.
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: josey on Wednesday 07 February 18 17:17 GMT (UK)
OK bbart, good find. Bride's mother gives consent so it appears Arthur probably died Dec 1934 aged 34 informant Mrs Gladys Hare.
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: RunKitty on Wednesday 07 February 18 17:20 GMT (UK)
Hi bbart,

So that 1921 census is likely not Austin and Gladys Compton Ayre.   

I am not seeing any other possibilities on the 1921 Canada census.   I think I see Austin's mother in Ottawa, as a housekeeper.  Ernest is not with her... she says she is a widow.     

The family, or Austin on his own, could certainly have gone to the USA or to another part of Canada.  It is always possible that Austin deserted the family and Gladys remarried later.  Or, that Austin died somewhere other than Ontario and Gladys remarried in Ontario, BC, the USA??   

There are so many possibilities!! 

As Gadget suggested - there could be some clues in the wedding photo.  Perhaps the style of clothing could hint at a date?   Maybe there are some clues to location in the photo as well.  It would be worth having a really close look at that photo. 

RK
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 07 February 18 17:25 GMT (UK)
Good find re 1921bbart - so where were Gladys and Austin in 1921?

RK - as you might have noticed, I do a fair amount of photo dating on the photo board and the outfit certainly looks like 1920s. There's also a photo of Gladys as an older lady - I'll go see if there is a  likeness.
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 07 February 18 17:30 GMT (UK)
I've done a couple of tiny snips from the larger pics -

Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: josey on Wednesday 07 February 18 17:33 GMT (UK)
Certainly the jawline and nose look similar....
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 07 February 18 17:38 GMT (UK)
The bridal photo has Gladys's sister on it - not sure who. She looks younger/not as tall. Could that be a clue?
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 07 February 18 17:46 GMT (UK)
The Find a Grave link to Gladys's mother has  only one other daughter  - Mary Compton 1893-1979

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/19088525/com

Gadget
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: dbree on Wednesday 07 February 18 18:37 GMT (UK)
Hi,

From Canadian Headstones, Fonthill/Browns Burying Ground Cemetery, Pelham, Niagara, Ontario

Austin Cyril Ayre d. July 5, 1953
Information taken from Town Records, no headstone.
https://canadianheadstones.com/view?id=859735

DB

Added: Austin seems to be the only Ayre in that cemetery.
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: dbree on Wednesday 07 February 18 18:46 GMT (UK)
Hi,

There is an obituary for Austin in the Welland Tribune Newspaper, page 16, 06/07/1953.
You can try contacting the Welland Library for a copy.
http://localhistory.welland.library.on.ca/newspaper/asp/

DB

Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: RunKitty on Wednesday 07 February 18 19:42 GMT (UK)
Excellent find DB :) :) :) :)

RK
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: bbart on Wednesday 07 February 18 19:53 GMT (UK)
Awesome find, Dbree!

But look how the newspaper index lists him !

1.  Austin, c. (Jack) Ayre,  Welland, Welland Tribune, page 7, 08/07/1953,  F.
2.  Austin, Cyril Ayre,  Welland, Welland Tribune, page 16, 06/07/1952,  D.
3.  Austin, Cyril Ayre,  Welland, Welland Tribune, page 16, 06/07/1953,  D.


Does this mean he rearranged his name, so instead of Austin Cyril Ayre, he became Cyril Ayre Austin?
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 07 February 18 19:59 GMT (UK)
Well done Debs - that was great find.  ;)

Cheers
Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 07 February 18 20:00 GMT (UK)
What a find  :D

So are we looking for Austin or Ayre - and does the Jack refer to him or his brother or was it a family nick name ?
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 07 February 18 20:04 GMT (UK)
A private tree which includes him on Ancestry.

Add - and only Gladys listed as spouse.
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: bbart on Wednesday 07 February 18 20:31 GMT (UK)
Finally found a hint from the directories:

1922 Toronto directory
Ayre, Austin C  moving picture opr, rms, 138 Monarch Pk Av

And, in the same directory, searching 138 Monarch Pk Ave for the owner.....Charles Compton......

Aghh!

Edit:  Charles Compton also lives at that address.
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 07 February 18 21:50 GMT (UK)
Gladys Compton's sister, Mary, married John Henry Seedhouse on 6 June 19291920*, St Johns, Toronto. (same church as Gladys's marriage to Austin- see my link in earlier post)   Gladys  was a witness.
Gladys address is given as 138 Monarch Park Avenue.

I've been looking through trees for any photos of Mary's marriage in case the pic was of her.

Put a 9 instead of a zero - new laptop  :-[ ::)
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: dbree on Wednesday 07 February 18 22:15 GMT (UK)
 :)

Well done bbart, picking him up in the Toronto Directories. And well done Gadget for linking that
address.

Browsing through the Welland Tribune index of names, I think Austin's was just a transcription
error. They seem to have a number of them back to front. Barbara Smith, not Smith, Barbara.

DB
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: josey on Thursday 08 February 18 10:18 GMT (UK)
Great stuff, all of you. Looking less & less likely there was a Compton[Ayre] - Rutledge marriage...
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: sandyjose on Friday 09 February 18 00:27 GMT (UK)
I found a marriage between Austin Ayre and Gladys Crompton 1920 looking at the details,family etc,there doesn't seem any doubt to me that this marriage took place
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: Gadget on Friday 09 February 18 08:18 GMT (UK)
I found a marriage between Austin Ayre and Gladys Crompton 1920 looking at the details,family etc,there doesn't seem any doubt to me that this marriage took place


Hi Sandy

No one's doubting the Compton-Ayre marriage. I put this link up a few days back:

Full info on the Compton-Ayre marriage

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKM5-CPTS

It's the marriage of Gordon Rutledge to Gladys that we can't find.


Gadget

Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: sandyjose on Friday 09 February 18 22:30 GMT (UK)
Yes I agree seems to be quite a mystery
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: sandyjose on Saturday 10 February 18 21:23 GMT (UK)
 
I don't want to say anything to the grandaughter until I'm sure of my facts.
 Many thanks to all the folk who have been helping
Title: Re: Finding a marriage
Post by: sandyjose on Saturday 17 February 18 21:51 GMT (UK)

 Maybe they married in the USA? Maybe because she was committing bigamy and thought it less likely she would be found out?  People did all sorts of things for love as I know from my own family!