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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Suffolk => England => Suffolk Lookup Requests => Topic started by: dbray220 on Thursday 08 February 18 22:15 GMT (UK)

Title: Lily May Marsh
Post by: dbray220 on Thursday 08 February 18 22:15 GMT (UK)
Good evening,
I'm looking for any information on Lily May Marsh, all I know is that she married Harry E Collins in Bury St Edmunds in 1913. Harry passed away in 1933.
I also know Lily had 2 children (born 1936 & 1939)with Charles Redvers Chatten. Lily never married Charles but they were partners until Charles death in 1967.
Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 08 February 18 22:39 GMT (UK)
Have you looked for her on the 1939 register to establish her birthdate?

There are only 2 birth entries for a Lily May Marsh that fit a marriage in 1913 - both in 1895 in Islington and Camberwell

I notice the 1913 marriage entry shows her just as Lily - where did you get her middle name from?

None of the Lily Collins deaths in Suffolk were old enough to have married in 1913.  Do you know where and when she died?  Charles R Chatten died in Hull and was b 1902 so considerably younger than Lily
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 08 February 18 22:55 GMT (UK)
Apart from the 1913 marriage there is nothing at the moment to connect her to Suffolk.  There are no births in Suffolk for children of that marriage although there are possibilities in Colchester and the 1936 birth you mention also appears to have been in Essex

Harry died in Essex and Charles Chatten died in Hull 

Do you have a copy of the 1913 marriage cert showing her fathers name/witnesses and possibly her age?
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 08 February 18 22:59 GMT (UK)
A Lily May Collins born 18.4.1894 died in Colchester 1983 but no Lily May Marsh birth that fits that birthdate

She left a will and there is a probate entry - address Scarletts Hostel Recreation Rd Colchester - died 15.10.1983

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#Wills
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 09 February 18 12:46 GMT (UK)
What information does the 1939 register give for her date of birth
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: dbray220 on Friday 09 February 18 14:01 GMT (UK)
Someone checked the 1939 register for me and on the age part were question marks for Lily and Charles
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 09 February 18 14:06 GMT (UK)
Someone checked the 1939 register for me and on the age part were question marks for Lily and Charles

Suggest looking at original, odd?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: dbray220 on Friday 09 February 18 14:20 GMT (UK)
I have a pic of the 1939 register that I was sent, but I don't know how to attach to a post so you can see it
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 09 February 18 14:23 GMT (UK)
The transcript of 1939 gives no year of birth but the original document has birth dates
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 09 February 18 14:25 GMT (UK)
The transcript of 1939 gives no year of birth but the original document has birth dates

It's the "other" dates written above, that are confusing?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: dbray220 on Friday 09 February 18 14:26 GMT (UK)
Do you have to have full subscription to FindMyPast or can you pay just to look at one?
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: Kay99 on Friday 09 February 18 14:30 GMT (UK)

There are only 2 birth entries for a Lily May Marsh that fit a marriage in 1913 - both in 1895 in Islington and Camberwell


There is a death for one Lily May Marsh age 4 Mar Qtr 1900   Islington    1b   196  :-\

Kay
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 09 February 18 18:26 GMT (UK)
For Lily to have married in 1913 she must have been born in the mid-late 1890s at least.

Charles Chatten was born 1902 so was several  years younger than her.  Harry Edwin Collins was b 1891 in Essex

There are quite a number of Lily Marsh and Lily Collins and without some more info to go on its guesswork.

Are either of the 2 children born to the Chatten relationship still alive who could perhaps answer your questions?

If not - you are dependant on the 1939 register having her birthdate and if that does not materialise then you will have to buy a copy of the 1913 marriage cert in the hope it gives sufficient info to trace her ancestry.

If you know where and when she died - tell us.  If she died from 1969 onwards her full birthdate should be shown
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: dbray220 on Friday 09 February 18 18:53 GMT (UK)
Unfortunately both Chatten children have passed away.
My cousin is looking for the relevant paperwork. I've spoken to my dad tonight and he remembers Charles and Lily, he is sure that Lily died in Hull, as she was living with her daughter Rose around 1966. he's not sure what year she died
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: avm228 on Friday 09 February 18 19:08 GMT (UK)
Where does middle name May come from?  Shes just Lily Marsh on the 1913 marriage, and Lily Chatten in the free 1939 index.
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: dbray220 on Friday 09 February 18 19:13 GMT (UK)
I was told by her granddaughter that her middle name was May.
I've just taken a months sub out on Find My Past and on the 1939 register her date of birth is 5 Aug 1896.
She is down as Lily Chatten on the register, but I have been told by a few people that her and Charles never married
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 09 February 18 19:23 GMT (UK)
Hi did the daughter a SHELIA M Chatten b 15th April 1936 Lexden mmn Marsh, marry a Green and her death was as Sheila May Green b 15th April 1936 March qtr 1978 Hull?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 09 February 18 19:52 GMT (UK)
Hi again, I see the 1939 Lexden birth Chatten also had a middle initial "M" but this time mmn Collins?
And married a Thomas Br****** 1957 and died recently in Hull.

Also a a death of a Lily CHATTON b 8th August 1891 died Dec qtr 1970 Hull aged 79?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: dbray220 on Friday 09 February 18 20:44 GMT (UK)
Hi Keyboard86
The 1939 Chatten is my aunty, Thomas was my dads brother.
My aunty was definitely Chatten.
Only problem is that she never really spoke about her family, so I'm going off a lot of hearsay.
I think the best thing for me to do is purchase the marriage cert for Lily and Harry E Collins
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 09 February 18 20:48 GMT (UK)
Agree, but as you can see from birth registrations, both the 1936 & 1939 births in Lexden had middle initial "M" and one had mmn Marsh the other Collins?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: dbray220 on Friday 09 February 18 21:03 GMT (UK)
I know my Aunty Rose had a middle initial M
I presume the other is Lily with the middle initial M.
I won't know for definite until I get the wedding cert, then I can at least work backwards as hopefully it will have Lily's fathers name on it
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 09 February 18 21:06 GMT (UK)
Hi did the daughter a SHELIA M Chatten b 15th April 1936 Lexden mmn Marsh, marry a Green and her death was as Sheila May Green b 15th April 1936 March qtr 1978 Hull?
Keyboard86

And also note the possible sister of your Auntie?
Keyboard86

PS hopefully you will only order the certificate through www.gro.gov.uk
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: jonw65 on Friday 09 February 18 21:13 GMT (UK)
SHELIA M Chatten b 15th April 1936 Lexden mmn Marsh, marry a Green and her death was as Sheila May Green b 15th April 1936 March qtr 1978 Hull?

She was buried in the Northern Cemetery, Hull, in 1978
Charles Redvers Chatten buried Northern Cemetery 1967

death of a Lily CHATTON b 8th August 1891 died Dec qtr 1970 Hull aged 79

Also indexed as Lily COLLINS b 8 Aug 1891
Burial at the Northern Cemetery of a Lily Collins near the end of 1970.
The relevant register(s) are not yet digitized by FamilySearch
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 09 February 18 23:10 GMT (UK)

Freebmd has 3 Lily Marsh births in the Sept qtr 1891 - all in different areas so you need that 1913 marriage cert
 
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 09 February 18 23:12 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much for your help johnw65, now have a problem of the marriage of Sheila M Chatten to a Green, as their is a Sheila M Chatten who married a Thomas E Downs Dec qtr 1955 Hull 2a 600

Sheila married as Downs to a Green 1969 Hull.
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: avm228 on Friday 09 February 18 23:16 GMT (UK)
Sheila M Downs married Robert W Green, Sep qtr 1969 Hull 2a 808.
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 09 February 18 23:22 GMT (UK)
 :) Well, as I see see it, what is the significance of "May" in the children of Lily?
Married 1913 to Harry Collins he died 1933 any children?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: avm228 on Friday 09 February 18 23:34 GMT (UK)
Cissie A Collins mmn Marsh, birth reg Dec qtr 1922 Colchester.

Married Denis Samuel Carroll, b 1921, in Colchester, Jun qtr 1943 (he died 2005).

Died Dec 1996 Hull as Cissie Agnes Carroll (born 1 Dec 1922).
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 09 February 18 23:51 GMT (UK)
 :) Colchester and Collins seem relevant as the female births 1919/1920 with "M" as middle name mmn Marsh?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: dbray220 on Saturday 10 February 18 07:32 GMT (UK)
Thanks to everyone for all your information. I've ordered Lily and Harry's marriage cert(1913) from gro
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: jonw65 on Saturday 10 February 18 10:21 GMT (UK)
on the 1939 register her date of birth is 5 Aug 1896.

Seems to be some doubt as to Lily's exact date of birth (and year!)
For what it's worth, there is a school record from Stanton in Suffolk
Lily Marsh
admitted 30.4.1900
born 5.8.95
father James
residence Wyken
withdrawal 27.7.09
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: jonw65 on Saturday 10 February 18 10:48 GMT (UK)
Stanton was in Bury St Edmunds registration district from 1908.
There's a birth possibility
Sep 1895 Thingoe 4a 795
Marsh, Lily
mother Savory

Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: jonw65 on Saturday 10 February 18 11:17 GMT (UK)
I've ordered Lily and Harry's marriage cert(1913) from gro

Just as well, looks like it wasn't a parish church marriage.
Other marriage with the same GRO ref in Dec 1913, 4a 1938, is Arthur C Moss + Maud Cawston.
There's an army service record for Arthur, and the marriage was at Bury St Edmunds Register Office, 13 Dec 1913

Lily May - might be a daughter
Birth, June 1919 Colchester 4a 1049
Collins, Lily M.
mother Marsh

Possible marriage
March 1937 Colchester 4a 1709
Barnett, James H.
Collins, Lily M.
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: jonw65 on Saturday 10 February 18 12:30 GMT (UK)
Sep 1895 Thingoe 4a 795
Marsh, Lily
mother Savory

In Bardwell in 1901. Father James a Shepherd
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSVS-D2T

and in Stanton in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7GV-3XM

Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: keyboard86 on Saturday 10 February 18 18:02 GMT (UK)
I've ordered Lily and Harry's marriage cert(1913) from gro

Just as well, looks like it wasn't a parish church marriage.
Other marriage with the same GRO ref in Dec 1913, 4a 1938, is Arthur C Moss + Maud Cawston.
There's an army service record for Arthur, and the marriage was at Bury St Edmunds Register Office, 13 Dec 1913

Lily May - might be a daughter
Birth, June 1919 Colchester 4a 1049
Collins, Lily M.
mother Marsh

Possible marriage
March 1937 Colchester 4a 1709
Barnett, James H.
Collins, Lily M.

Hi just tidying up the item on my note pad:-

Lily M Barnett also Lily M Collins married an Ernest J Swatman March qtr 1953 Colchester 4a 1229 and her death was as Lily Matilda Swatman b 26th May 1919 Sept qtr 2005 Dudley aged 86
Ernest J Swatman possibly married a Martha S Crouch June qtr 1936 Tendring, Martha S Swatman died March qtr 1945 Colchester 4a 1246 aged 28
Keyboard86



Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: dbray220 on Tuesday 20 February 18 15:50 GMT (UK)
Thanks to all that replied.
I have received the marriage cert. On this Lily is down just as Lily Marsh age 21 years, Fathers name James Marsh (Shepherd).
Harry Edward Collins age 22 years, Fathers name Hugh Bourne Collins (Market Gardener).
They married at The Register Office, Bury St Edmunds on 19 Dec 1913.
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: Kay99 on Tuesday 20 February 18 16:06 GMT (UK)
Where were the couple living when  they married?

There is this Lily with father James who  was a shepherd   https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7GV-36T
She is rather young, but may have lied re her age

Kay
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 20 February 18 16:11 GMT (UK)
Where were the couple living when  they married?

There is this Lily with father James who  was a shepherd   https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7GV-36T
She is rather young, but may have lied re her age

Kay

That is the family John has already suggested  :-\
Sep 1895 Thingoe 4a 795
Marsh, Lily
mother Savory

In Bardwell in 1901. Father James a Shepherd
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSVS-D2T

and in Stanton in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7GV-3XM
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: Kay99 on Tuesday 20 February 18 16:12 GMT (UK)
Sorry - I missed it  :-\

Kay
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 20 February 18 16:28 GMT (UK)
No need to apologise, it is easy to do  :)   Always good to reach the same conclusion though  ;D
Title: Re: Lily May Marsh
Post by: dbray220 on Tuesday 20 February 18 21:31 GMT (UK)
Thanks
They were both living in Stanton, on the date of the marriage. So everything fits into place with the links from the previous posts.
Thanks again to everyone who has helped