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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: Mariposaloca on Friday 09 February 18 12:17 GMT (UK)
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Hello Fellow Genealogists
I haven't been doing this very long, i got into it in 2005 but lost contact with it. So here i am picking up. My nana is 89 next week and she has dementia. She is currently in hospital with a broken neck so im trying to piece this together so i have something to talk to her about as she doesnt remember very well. I have been struggling to find some info on my GG Nana. I was hoping some of you could help fill in the gaps please.
Elizabeth Kilpatrick Possibly born in 1877 Banbridge Ireland (need birth date)
Parents William Kilptrick and Mary O'Neil (need birth dates)
Elizabeth Kilpatrick married Thomas Kelly in 1901 (id like to know more about him) (divorced or deceased??)
Edward McMullen (my GG Grandad) married Annie Sheridan 13/04/1896 in Scotland (divorced or Deceased??)
Elizabeth Kilpatrick then met and married Edward McMullen in 1913
(apparently they had my Great grandma out of wedlock as catholic so had to wait for one of their spouses to die)
Elizabeth and Edward McMullen had my g.gran in 1905 - Agnes McMullen, she was 8 when they married in 1913
Id like to know:
Elizabeth's parents birth dates, location of birth, deaths??
Edwards parents Peter McMullen and /Mary Ann McGill - DOB's? Location of birth, deaths etc?
Annie Sheridans parents (i bought some documents but the dates don't fit so she cant be the right Annie!) all i know about Annie is:
SHERIDAN ANNIE Possible Birth??
F
1875
282/2 280
St Mary
SHERIDAN ANNIE Possible Death??
32
1902
644/9 788
Kelvin
Cant be sure!
And Thomas Kelly - i know nothing except he possibly died on the docks.
The child of EM and EK Agnes McMullen married my G.Grandad William Diamond 31/12/1923 and she lived at Lived at 107 stobcross street, Glasgow when she married William.
This is all i have and i keep spending out money on documents hoping to get more but i find they're wrong.
Id appreciate any help anyone can offer. I struggle with the Scottish and Irish sides as i cant be sure where they were born as some moved over from Ireland and vise versa.
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Elizabeth Kilpatrick Possibly born in 1877 Banbridge Ireland (need birth date)
Parents William Kilptrick and Mary O'Neil (need birth dates)
Why do you think she was born in Banbridge?
Extracted birth record of Eliza Jane Kilpatrick, daughter of William & Mary (O'Neill), born 16 Apr.1876 Strabane district, Co. Tyrone-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPTZ-G5F
Actual record shows family lived Main St., Strabane and father William was a labourer-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03056/2120764.pdf
A son William born 1870- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FP17-S5S
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03347/2227284.pdf
A daughter Jane born 1873- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG5P-LLQ
Possible daughter born 1867 Scotland- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQH9-CS8
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Elizabeth Kilpatrick then met and married Edward McMullen in 1913
Hi , and welcome :)
Have you looked at that marriage cert. to check their marital status(single / widowed ?).
ev
Added -
SHERIDAN ANNIE Possible Death??
32
1902
644/9 788
Kelvin
Other surname showing as McNeil :-\
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Hello aghadowey
Thank you for your links, so useful!
Why do i think she was born in Banbridge? When searching i came across some information that suggested she was my Elizabeth. This is why i wrote possibly born in 1877 Banbridge.- i get confused with all this info so i try and keep track, then im not sure which is 100% or which is just guess work.
Im not sure Eliza Jane is right as i have her Marriage certificate to Edward and her name is
Elizabeth Kilpatrick Or Kelly (as she was widowed by Thomas Kelly) Also she gave birth to Agnes in 1901. This is why i am so confused, i come across all this information then something like this doesnt add up.
Hi Ev
Yes i have just noticed Elizabeths says widower so Thomas must have dies. im aware that elizabeth and edward were together before but couldnt marry until someone died, so when Thomas died they were able to marry.
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Annie Sheridan marriage certificate to Edward shows her parents were
James Sheridan, a coal miner (deceased)
Elizabeth Sheridan M.S?? Calder?
(apologies i struggle with the old English handwriting. The "M.S" or "M.&" im assuming this means maiden name or name before married name?
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Familysearch has Ann Sheridan birth 25th July 1869 New Monkland Lanark , parents James Sheridan and Elizabeth Calder.
M.S. is maiden surname.
ev
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There is a death for an Annie Sheridan(other surname McMullan) , age 60 , 1929 Airdrie or New Monkland :-\
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Ev, Thank you so much for that. I will try this family search. I had Annie being born in dundee!! i dont know where this info all came from! And thank you for clearing up the MS :) Much appreciated.
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Im looking at this link that aghadowey sent me, it seems Eliza Jane Kilpatrick has a sister called Elizabeth. Could this be my Elizabeth??
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/9QKJ-LYN?1=1&parents=M3SV-GB1_M3SJ-CFP
William Kilpatrick
1842–1902 • M3SV-GB1
Mary O'Neil
–1910 • M3SJ-CFP
Marriage: 1863
Of,,Misc,Scotland
Children (7)
Margaret Kilpatrick
1859–1930 • KZJG-S8L
Charles Kilpatrick
1865–1927 • 93B7-J82
Elizabeth Kilpatrick
1867–Deceased • 93N6-F84
Ann Kilpatrick
1867–Deceased • 934G-MCG
William Kilpatrick
1870–Deceased • 9WLL-X3F
Jane Kilpatrick
1873–Deceased • 96NW-QYQ
Eliza Jane Kilpatrick
1876–Deceased • 9QKJ-LYN
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It's VERY IMPORTANT to make a note of the source of information found so that you can evaluate it properly and also find it again!
The latest Family Search details you've posted are from a submitted tree which, like all such trees, may contain errors and need to be carefully checked.
This is a perfect example of the problems that happen when you don't take good notes-
Why do i think she was born in Banbridge? When searching i came across some information that suggested she was my Elizabeth. This is why i wrote possibly born in 1877 Banbridge.- i get confused with all this info so i try and keep track, then im not sure which is 100% or which is just guess work.
I can see no birth in Banbridge district for that period with those parents.
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Sorry , I've added a bit to my last post.
Could that be the correct death for the Annie Sheridan who married Edward McMullan in 1896 ?
ev
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Thank you for your help, i am new to this so sometimes its easy to miss something important and make the wrong detail.
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The "M.S" or "M.&" im assuming this means maiden name or name before married name?
Assuming you are quoting from a Scottish rather than an English certificate, it is M S and it means 'Maiden Surname'.
English, Welsh and Irish certificates don't include nearly as much information as Scottish ones, and the only place you get a mother's maiden surname is on a birth certificate. However it isn't recorded as "M S ...." but as "formerly ...."
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Sorry , I've added a bit to my last post.
Could that be the correct death for the Annie Sheridan who married Edward McMullan in 1896 ?
ev
Where is that information please?
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There is a death for an Annie Sheridan(other surname McMullan) , age 60 , 1929 Airdrie or New Monkland
ev
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Thank you Ev. Where did you find the death? on what site please?
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Thank you Ev. Where did you find the death? on what site please?
Scotland's People
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Hi Ev, yes this looks like her, thanks for that. I have bought the death cert but i cant really read the reason of death, Ye Olde English writing (or Scottish) lol
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Hi Ev, yes this looks like her, thanks for that. I have bought the death cert but i cant really read the reason of death, Ye Olde English writing (or Scottish) lol
Post it here - someone will know.
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It won't let me upload it. Says it's too big :(
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Maximum size is 500kb.........
Can you cropped the part you can't read , don't post the full image as it's copyright......
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=130922.0
ev
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Can anyone translate this please? ;D
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Annie looks to have died from a carcinoma (cancer) of the stomach.
Monica
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Are you sure that the Edward McMullen's that married in 1896 and 1913 are the same person ?
Edwards parents Peter McMullen and /Mary Ann McGill - DOB's? Location of birth, deaths etc?
Edward Patrick McMullen , birth 3rd October 1870 , Tradeston Glasgow Lanark , parents Patrick(or Peter ?) McMullen and Mary Ann McGill.
Death Edward Patrick McMullen , age 63 , 1934 Springburn Lanark.
ev
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MonicaL
Thanks for that translation :) much appreciated
Ev
see attached marriage certificate.
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Thank you Ev - i see what you have noticed which i failed to notice. The parents of my GGGGrandfather are Peter McMullen and /Mary Ann McGill
On this new Annie Sheridan Marriage certificate to Edward in 1896, Edwards parents are Edward McMullen and Mary Collins!!! So this is NOT my Edwards ex wife :( (when you think you've made progress!!!)
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I see Edward is a widower on the 1913 marriage cert.
Death Edward Patrick McMullen , age 63 , 1934 Springburn Lanark.
Wonder if both his wives are named on that death cert. ?
ev
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good thinking Ev and it seems you are right.... both wives are named except Annie isnt one of them :( at least now i have someone else to search :)
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so, it now seems my GGG Granddad didnt marry Annie at all and that is just a big fat coincidence that didnt accurately match.
Im now searching for his 1st wife Margaret Reilly. To start ive attempted to find their marriage cert looking at both Scottish and Irish records but ive come up with zilch! What am i doing wrong?
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Margaret Reilly / Edward McMILLAN marriage 1894 Anderston Lanark ....... maybe.
Death Margaret McMULLEN(or Reilly) , age 27 , 1901 Anderston Lanark.
If that's the correct Margaret then perhaps it was Thomas Kelly that prevented Edward and Elizabeth from marriage until 1913 :-\
Looking at the Valuation Rolls on SP there is an Edward MacMILLAN/MacMullen listed at 107 Stobcross Street Glasgow in 1915 , 1920 , 1925 , and 1930.
Have you found Edward McMullen or Elizabeth Kilpatrick/Kelly on the 1911 Census ?
ev
Added -
I would use M*CM*L*N on the surname search for McMullen.
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Hi Ev
I found him under Edward McMillan, married to Margaret Reilly 2nd April 1894 :)
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Hi Ev, Sadly yes it is Margaret. so Edward didnt have an affair then! he was widowed and met Elizabeth after. My great gran Agnes was illigitamate so it mustve been Thomas Kelly that was still married to Elizabeth, which is why they couldn't marry until 1913, 8 years after Agnes was born.
I felt like id wasted time with Annie but im so glad you're helping me Ev :)
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Glad you seem to be on the right track now :)
1911 Census index , Anderston , Lanark , Ref. 644/11 2/ 24
Edward McMullan 39
and
Agnes McMullen 6
Different spelling on surname but same reference number on index , and they do seem to be together :-\
ev
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Great Thanks!!!
Can anyone read this please?
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On the fourteenth day of October 1889 at St Andrews Chapel Great Clyde Street Glasgow a Marriage (after banns) was solemnized between us according to the Forms of the Roman Catholic Church. (Signed) James 'x' his mark Rielly, 26, 35 Hill Street, Labourer, Bachelor, Peter Riley, mason, ? Riley maiden name Masterton. (Signed) Mary 'x' her mark Fairley, 22, 95 Saltmarket Street, Glasgow, weaver, spinster, Peter Fairley, Labourer, Ann Fairley maiden name Winters. (Signed) John ?Gray? (Signed) Jane McManus, witness, (Signed) James Lennard, witness. above marriage was registered by me at Glasgow on the 17th day of October 1889, John Steven, Registrar.
Some of it is pretty hard to read and I don't guarantee to be 100% correct!
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On the fourteenth day of October 1889 at St Andrews Chapel Great Clyde Street Glasgow a Marriage (after banns) was solemnized between us according to the Forms of the Roman Catholic Church. (Signed) James 'x' his mark Rielly, 26, 35 Hill Street, Labourer, Bachelor, Peter Riley, mason, ? Riley maiden name Masterton. (Signed) Mary 'x' her mark Fairley, 22, 95 Saltmarket Street, Glasgow, weaver, spinster, Peter Fairley, Labourer, Ann Fairley maiden name Winters. (Signed) John ?Gray? (Signed) Jane McManus, witness, (Signed) James Lennard, witness. above marriage was registered by me at Glasgow on the 17th day of October 1889, John Steven, Registrar.
Some of it is pretty hard to read and I don't guarantee to be 100% correct!
That's Is a pretty good try!! Thank you so much!!
What does his mark mean and after banns?
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His or her mark, X, simply means that both James and Mary were illiterate (could not write or read). They made an X by their names instead of a signature.
Banns to a marriage are legal requirements to a marriage. See here for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banns_of_marriage
Monica
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Very Interesting, so basically Banns is "speak now or forever hold your peace" kinda thing??
Forfarian, could you translate this please?
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Yes. Any couple intending marriage had to be proclaimed three times from the pulpit in the parish kirk (though there were ways round this), and if there were no objections, the wedding could then take place.
Edinburgh, 20th February 1854. Proclaimed 19th February 1854. Patrick McMullin, Seaman on Board the Victoria Steam Ship, and Mary Ann McGill, lately residing at No 11 Greenside Street, Greenside Parish, daughter of Peter McGill, Porter, Granton, have been Three times Proclaimed, in Order to Marriage, in the Parish Church of Greenside, and no objections have been offered. Married at Leith on the 28th day of February 1854 by the Rev Archibald Macdonald Roman Catholic Clergyman.
You didn't really need a transcription of that - it is beautifully written and really easy to read :)
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Yes. Any couple intending marriage had to be proclaimed three times from the pulpit in the parish kirk (though there were ways round this), and if there were no objections, the wedding could then take place.
Edinburgh, 20th February 1854. Proclaimed 19th February 1854. Patrick McMullin, Seaman on Board the Victoria Steam Ship, and Mary Ann McGill, lately residing at No 11 Greenside Street, Greenside Parish, daughter of Peter McGill, Porter, Granton, have been Three times Proclaimed, in Order to Marriage, in the Parish Church of Greenside, and no objections have been offered. Married at Leith on the 28th day of February 1854 by the Rev Archibald Macdonald Roman Catholic Clergyman.
You didn't really need a transcription of that - it is beautifully written and really easy to read :)
Forfarian, again thank you, and yes unfortunatley i did need your help as i dont have very good eyesight and i really struggled with a few of the words so i needed your help to help me make sense of it :) much appreciated
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No problem :)