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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: tracy123 on Saturday 10 February 18 13:18 GMT (UK)
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Is any able to help confirm that i am on the right track. This is what i have
Thomas Ward Born 1732 Died 1812 age 72 married to Ellen Sawyer then Susannah Speakman
His parents were Henry Ward Bapt 10.03.1705(Liversay) & Alice Shorrock (blackburn) married 31.12.1733
Henry parents were Thomas Ward Bapt 07.03.1687 & Grace Smith Bapt 27.04.1670 married on 26.04.1698
If this is correct i will continue going back.
Thank you all :)
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When did he marry Ellen Sawyer?
Looks to me that he only married once.
And would be 20ish then.
Marriage:
24 Jul 1753 St Helen, Garstang, Lancashire, England
Thomas Ward - Winmarly
Susanna Speakman - Winmarly
Married by Banns
Nothing to say he was widowed.
Burial:
18 Apr 1812 St Helen, Garstang, Lancashire, England
Thos. Ward -
Age: 79**
Abode: Nateby
Burial:
23 Mar 1816 St Helen, Garstang, Lancashire, England
Susannah Ward -
Age: 83
Abode: Nateby
Trish :)
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I see the Marriage now but it may be another Thomas Ward;
Marriage: 3 Feb 1787 St Helen, Garstang, Lancashire, England
Thomas Ward - (X), Husbandman, Garstang
Ellin Sawyer - (X), Spinster, Garstang
Witness: Robert Hornby; John Foster
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I can find at least 7 children to Thomas/Ellin-Ellen in Garstang 1787-1802 on LancsOPC.
On last 2 Father a Labourer, abode Nateby.
Burial: 28 May 1807 St Helen, Garstang, Lancashire, England
Ellen Ward - Wife of Thos. Ward
Age: 46
Abode: Nateby
He looks to have remarried after Ellen died;
Marriage: 6 Jun 1815 St Helen, Garstang, Lancashire, England
Thomas Ward - (X), Widower, Garstang
Frances Longworth - (X), Spinster, Garstang
So unlikely to be the Thomas that died 1812.
Burial: 16 Jan 1830 St Helen, Garstang, Lancashire, England
Fanny Ward - Wife of Thomas Ward
Age: 64
Abode: Nateby
So this Thomas was still alive in 1830
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Yes thats the marriage i have 1787
and also to susannah 24 jul 1753
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Read what I have posted and I will be back tomorrow, just signing out now as its late in OZ.
Do you have any children born to Thomas/Susannah? or are you descended from Thomas/Ellen?
As I say I think two different Thomas's. If born 1732 married 1787 for a second time and having children until 1802 he would be very old when they were born!
Also there is a Thomas Ward born c 1766 living in Garstang in 1841 Census who I think is more likely the one who married 1787.
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Re the Thomas 1841 Census.
Death Reg GRO Index;
WARD, THOMAS, age 83
GRO Reference: 1847 D Quarter in GARSTANG UNION Volume 21 Page 318
Birth c 1764
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Is any able to help confirm that i am on the right track. This is what i have
Thomas Ward Born 1732 Died 1812 age 72 married to Ellen Sawyer then Susannah Speakman
His parents were Henry Ward Bapt 10.03.1705(Liversay) & Alice Shorrock (blackburn) married 31.12.1733
Henry parents were Thomas Ward Bapt 07.03.1687 & Grace Smith Bapt 27.04.1670 married on 26.04.1698
If this is correct i will continue going back.
Thank you all :)
What evidence do you have that Henry Ward (baptised 1705) & Alice Shorrock were parents of Thomas? They both have common forenames and surnames. Did they move from Blackburn to the Garstang area?
What evidence do you have that parents of Henry Ward were Thomas Ward & Grace Smith.
If those were the correct parents what is your evidence to connect the Thomas Ward who married Grace Smith with the Thomas Ward who was baptised in 1687? Was that Thomas Ward baptised not as an infant but as an older child or adult? If so, why?
Parish register entries of the period were sparse on detail.
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Thomas Ward's abode at marriage was Winmarleigh. I know that doesn't mean that he was born there. However he may have been born in the vicinity. In that case he may have been baptised at St. Michael, Cockerham. My ancestors from there are in Cockerham and Garstang parish registers. St. Helen's Church is not in the town of Garstang itself but a few miles outside it at Churchtown.
The surname Ward(e) was in registers of St. Michael, Cockerham registers in 17th + 18thC.
You may like to consider this baptism from Nov. 1680: "Thomas Wade (?) son of John Wade (?), abode (?). Notes:[surname hard to read]"
There were 2 Ward(e) marriages at Cockerham 1682, 1683. John Warde' entry in register 1683 reads "(married by Asking)". There were also Wade entries.
There are no baptisms for St. Michael, Cockerham 1692-1700 on Lancashire Online Parish Clerks website, or marriages 1658-1660 or burials 1657-1701. I haven't checked if they are available elsewhere. Missing marriages and some burials may be so-called "Commonwealth Gap" which affected many parish registers of the time. Another factor to consider is that there was a plague in Cockerham in mid 17thC and some people who died during it were buried without names or with only surnames.
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Some background information on parish of Cockerham from "A History of the County of Lancaster" vol 8:
"The boundaries of this parish are peculiar. .........The parochial boundaries of Cockerham and Garstang are much intermixed."
The following notes about vicars of Cockerham provide insight into some reasons why some parish registers are less perfect than we would wish.
1650: William Calvert was Vicar. He was sequestered for "delinquency" that year. Thomas Smith, officiating minister died from a "pestilence" in August 1650. There was no minister during September & October . (This was the English Civil War and Commonwealth period. The king had been executed in 1649. His son later attempted to regain the throne and brought an army to England which briefly restarted the war. Clergy were removed if their views didn't accord with whatever religious dogma was in the ascendancy at the time, and that could change rapidly, one way and then another.)
1737-1781: Thomas Winder was Vicar. He "became deranged" in his later years and Cockerham was under sequestration for a long period before his death.
(A History of the County of Lancaster. Vol. 8
Originally published by Victoria County History, London 1914
Extracts on line as British History Online
www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/lancs/vol8/pp89-93
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This is my issue. I went to Northampton to do some research at the centre there, and was given some help. My first time this far back. All information I found on Ancestry, hoping to go to Preston next month
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Have you consulted Lancashire Archives online catalogue? What are you hoping to find at Preston?
Do you know what your Thomas Ward of Winmarleigh did for a living? Would he have made a will? You can order copies of wills from Lancashire Archives catalogue online. I paid £2 per page for mine + postage.
Are you a member of Lancashire Family History & Heraldry Society? It has branches which cover the relevant areas. Lancaster branch has its' own website. LFHHS has an online forum.
If you're going to Preston, visit Garstang on market-day. Buy local cheese and other local food. Plenty of places to eat in Garstang town and choice of 2 old pubs in Churchtown, 1 very near St. Helen's church. Garstang has more pubs than most towns of a similar size. That's because they were coaching inns. It was a busy place during the stagecoach era.
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The marriage of Henry Ward & Alice Shorrock was at St. Mary the Virgin, Blackburn, 31st Dec. 1730, not 31st Dec. 1733.
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Hi tracey123,
Could you please answer my question earlier please?
Do you have any children born to Thomas/Susannah? or are you descended from Thomas/Ellen?
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Sorry forgot to log out last night.
Children for Henry and Alice.
I have Thomas who was married to Ellen and susannah
I have Thomas's children John, Ann, William and Richard
Tracy
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Yes i am a decendent, Thomas Ward 1733 Would be my grandfather x5. I am trying to go back as far as i can including all siblings
Tracy
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My reasoning behind going to Preston is.
1. I can photograph any grave stones
2. Maybe go to the archives and research?
3. I have just goinged the LFH&H last night. so hoping to meet some of them.
4. Last of all my daughter is now at university there and a visit to her is overdue
I have booked onto some course by the SOG. and also been looking at Pharos for ideas.
I use Lancashire OPC. Only recently restated looking for family again
I will visit Garstang as I also live in a market town in Oxfordshire and believe in supporting them.
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Children for Henry and Alice.
I have Thomas who was married to Ellen and susannah
I have Thomas's children John, Ann, William and Richard
Tracy
Are these the children of Thomas you mean? All from baptism register of St. Helen, Garstang. Parents of all were Thomas & Ellen:
September 1787 William Ward, son of Thomas & Ellen, abode Catteral
May 1789 Ann Ward, daughter of Thomas & Ellin, abode Catteral
Jan. 1791 William Ward, son of Thomas & Ellin, abode Catteral
June 1792 William Ward, son of Thomas & Ellen, abode Nateby
June 1795 John Ward, son of Thomas & Ellen, abode Nateby
Jan. 1797 Richard Ward, son of Thomas & Ellen, abode Nateby
These 2 may have been children of the same couple:
Sept. 1799 Alice Moon Ward, daughter of Thomas & Ellen, abode Nateby
Jan. 1802 Edward Ward, son of Thomas & Ellen, abode Nateby
These births fit in well with the 1787 marriage and the burial of Ellen in 1807 at St. Helen's Garstang which were posted by trish on Saturday. Catterall and Nateby are both within 2 miles of Garstang so likely that Thomas moved around the parish, perhaps to different farms.
If the same couple, Thomas and Ellen were parents of all 8 of the children then they seemed to be very keen on the name William, 3 sons baptised with the name. This leads me to think that William was the name of a grandfather.
I wonder why Alice (1799) has middle name Moon.
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Thank you for that Maiden Stone.
I agree with all you have posted as I had found that also.
What I am trying to say to you tracy123 is that I am pretty sure that the Thomas who married Ellen Sawyer was not born 1733.
There is no indication he was a Widower at the 1787 Marriage.
Please read through this again;
I can find at least 7 children to Thomas/Ellin-Ellen in Garstang 1787-1802 on LancsOPC.
On last 2 Father a Labourer, abode Nateby.
Burial: 28 May 1807 St Helen, Garstang, Lancashire, England
Ellen Ward - Wife of Thos. Ward
Age: 46
Abode: Nateby
He looks to have remarried after Ellen died;
Marriage: 6 Jun 1815 St Helen, Garstang, Lancashire, England
Thomas Ward - (X), Widower, Garstang
Frances Longworth - (X), Spinster, Garstang
So unlikely to be the Thomas that died 1812.********
Burial: 16 Jan 1830 St Helen, Garstang, Lancashire, England
Fanny Ward - Wife of THOMAS*** Ward
Age: 64
Abode: Nateby
So this Thomas was still alive in 1830
Hes is likely the one born c 1766 in Garstang 1841 Census.
Died 1847 age 83***
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Hi again tracey123.
I also gave you the Burials of a Thomas/Susannah WARD
Burial:
18 Apr 1812 St Helen, Garstang, Lancashire, England
Thos. Ward -
Age: 79**
Abode: Nateby
Burial:
23 Mar 1816*** St Helen, Garstang, Lancashire, England
Susannah Ward -
Age: 83****
Abode: Nateby
So born born c 1733**
Possible;
SUSANA Speakman christening: 21 May 1732, Pilling, Lancs, Father JOHN
So if Susannah died after Thomas how could he have remarried 1787?????
Trish :)
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Children for Henry and Alice.
I have Thomas who was married to Ellen and susannah
I have Thomas's children John, Ann, William and Richard
Tracy
Are these the children of Thomas you mean? All from baptism register of St. Helen, Garstang. Parents of all were Thomas & Ellen:
September 1787 William Ward, son of Thomas & Ellen, abode Catteral
May 1789 Ann Ward, daughter of Thomas & Ellin, abode Catteral
Jan. 1791 William Ward, son of Thomas & Ellin, abode Catteral
June 1792 William Ward, son of Thomas & Ellen, abode Nateby
June 1795 John Ward, son of Thomas & Ellen, abode Nateby
Jan. 1797 Richard Ward, son of Thomas & Ellen, abode Nateby
These 2 may have been children of the same couple:
Sept. 1799 Alice Moon Ward, daughter of Thomas & Ellen, abode Nateby
Jan. 1802 Edward Ward, son of Thomas & Ellen, abode Nateby
These births fit in well with the 1787 marriage and the burial of Ellen in 1807 at St. Helen's Garstang which were posted by trish on Saturday. Catterall and Nateby are both within 2 miles of Garstang so likely that Thomas moved around the parish, perhaps to different farms.
If the same couple, Thomas and Ellen were parents of all 8 of the children then they seemed to be very keen on the name William, 3 sons baptised with the name. This leads me to think that William was the name of a grandfather.
These seem to be burials of the first 2 sons named William:
29th July 1788 St. Helen, Garstang, Wm Ward son of Thomas, abode Catteral.
5th June 1791 St. Helen, Garstang, Wm Ward son of Thomas, abode Nateby.
This fits with presumed movements of the family around the district as taken from abode at baptisms.
If these were the deaths of the 2 sons baptised in 1787 and 1791 then the family moved from Catterall to Nateby during 1st half of 1791.
If my asssumptions are corrrect then I'm inclined to think that the father of Thomas was William, unless Willliam was Ellen's father, or one of them was very fond of a brother or an uncle called William. Do you know anything about Ellen's family?
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A quick look using "Ancestor Search" page of Lancashire Online Parish Clerks results in 24 baptisms, marriages or burials for the name Thomas Ward 1740-1780 within a 10 mile radius of Garstang and 21 for William. So plenty of men named Thomas Ward around.
It's possible his baptism wasn't recorded. (Remember the "deranged" Vicar of Cockerham, incumbent at the time, whom I mentioned in an earlier post.) He may have been from another parish. His parents may not have been C. of E. This was a staunchly Catholic area. There was a Quaker presence in Lancaster. There may have been Methodists and other Non-Conformists. NB Inclusion of a child's name in 18th C. of E. Parish register is not proof the family were C. of E. Clergy kept account of children of other religious denominations too in order to provide statistics to Diocese or government. There was a tax on births twice during 18thC which Anglican Clergy collected, so they had to know and register all children born in their parish. Some clergy differentiated babies of other denominations in their records, others simply added them to the baptism register.
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Marriage bond for marriage of Thomas Ward to Frances Longworth in Lancs. Archives:
5th Jan. 1815
Groom: Thomas Ward, age 50; occupation husbandman. Marital status not given. Abode: Place 1 Nateby; Place 2 Garstang.
Bride Frances Longworth, age 50; marital status/occupation spinster. Abode: Place 1 not given; Place 2 Garstang.
His age corresponds with the age trish found in other records, giving him estimated YOB 1764-6.
Keep these 2 in mind as well in case there's a connection, possibly to extended family:
1. Marriage bond 1760
Groom: Thomas Ward, age 24; occupation husbandman. Abode: Place 1. Inskip; Place 2 St. Michael's-on-Wyre.
Bride: Margaret Williamson, age 30; Abode: Place 1 Winmarleigh; Place 2 Garstang.
Bondsmen Thomas Greaves, Barnacre-with-Bonds, husbandman, Henry Whiteside, Garstang, innkeper.
2. Marriage bond 1768
Groom: William Ward, age 37; occupation blacksmith. Marital status not given. Abode: Place 1 Cabus; Place 2 Garstang.
Bride: Jennet Abbot, age 24; Abode: Place 1 Cabus; Place 2 Garstang.
Given that William was 37 at time of his marriage it occurred to me that he may have been married before and may have had children from previous marriage. If so he would be a candidate for a shortlist of possible father of Thomas Ward who was born c1765.
There were plenty of other Ward bridegrooms in Lancs., 150 marriage bonds. I picked out ones which seemed relevant by date and locality.
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Another parish I would be inclined to look at is Kirkham. Plenty of Wards in parish registers. It's also stronghold of Moon. A child of a Thomas & Ellen baptised at Garstang had middle name Moon. That may have come from mother's family of course. It may have been a child of a different Thomas & Ellen. A Richard Ward married a Moon bride in 1800.
Inskip, abode of the Thomas Ward whose bride lived at Winmarleigh in 1760, is midway between Garstang and Kirkham.
Also consider Wyresdale, Preston and Lancaster for origins of your Ward family.
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This 1847 death registration of Thomas Ward is worth attention. Thomas Ward aged 83, Garstang district.
Edit. I see trish already found this (Post #6)
He fits in well with the husband of Francis Longworth (married 1815) and the Thomas trish found on 1841 census.
If it was my ancestor I'd consider sending for a copy of the death certificate. I buy mine from Preston. It should be a photocopy of original certificate.
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Returning briefly to the Thomas Ward who married Susanna Speakman in 1753 at Garstang.
Were there any children of their long marriage? The only likely one I saw on LAN OPC was Matthew Ward baptised at Cockerham 1760. Mother's name not mentioned so can't be sure. I checked burials for infants who may have died before baptism but there was nothing obvious. Thomas and /or Susanna may have belonged to another denomination.
There were a lot of Speakmans at Pilling. My 6xGGF may have been witness at a Speakman wedding at Cockerham.
Edit. I agree with trish that Thomas Ward who married Susanna was a different man from Thomas who married Ellen. 1st Thomas Ward was still married to Susanna when 2nd Thomas Ward married Ellen in 1787.
PS I'm blaming any spelling errors in previous posts on gloomy condition outside making it hard to see keyboard in spite of sitting by window.
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Among many bearers of the Ward surname in the parish of Garstang were Edward and Richard, buried 1751 & 1752 respectively, abode Nateby. There was an earlier burial of a Richard in 1742, also abode Nateby. These are worth looking at, considering that 2 sons of Thomas & Ellen were Richard and Edward. Possibly 2 names handed down the family? (A caveat here: I have umpteen Richards in 2 of my GM's and GF's lines from this region. It seems to have been a popular name. Most of mine had fathers and brothers called Thomas, John or William.)