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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: NessHandler on Monday 12 February 18 12:51 GMT (UK)
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My 3rd great Grandfather was John Courtney. He was definitely a Colour Sergeant and ended up at St Helier Jersey as I have a record of his son's Baptism in 1824. I have found a couple of Military records :
Attestation 1807 age 21 at Athlone Ireland.
and UK military campaign 1793-1815 battle of Vimeiro. these may be the same man or different.
Can anyone help me find the correct John Courtney or regiment that definitely ended up on Jersey?
Thank you in anticipation
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I have also found a record that says the Regiment served in Canada. Can anyone confirm this please?
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As background, the battle of Vimeiro was in 1808 and the 97th wasn't raised until 1824 so the medal roll of the 97th which has C Sgt Courtney must have been compiled after that date. So we are looking for the same name, before 1808 but not in the 97th.
The 97th was headquartered in Winchester from about May 1824 and went to Ceylon in early 1925, I can't find any mention of them being in Jersey.
However, if the birth was Sarah, then the birth is in the Regimental Birth Indices at the GRO and you can apply for details. The reference is Volume RA 22 Page 65 Line number 24 year 1824.
But the register is shown as RA which, and I may be mistaken, indicates the father was in the RA. The Sgt John Courtney 1807-1828 is in the Fold 3 bit of Ancestry which I don't have access to although the transcription says Royal Regiment of Artillery.
You mention another 1807 Athlone attestation, can't find that, are there any other details?
You were very definite about him being a Colour Sergeant, may I ask where that comes from? Ancestry doesn't always get its details right and Sgt John Courtney could well be him but I suggest you concentrate on the birth first.
MaxD
PS Canada in 1848 to 1853.
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I have found reference to other 97th Foot:Six regiments of the British Army have been numbered the 97th Regiment of Foot:
97th Regiment of Foot (1760), raised in 1760
97th Regiment of Foot (1780), raised in 1780
97th Regiment of Foot (Inverness-shire Highlanders), raised in 1794
97th (Queen's Own Germans) Regiment of Foot, brought into the Army in 1804 and renumbered as the 96th in 1816
97th Regiment of Foot, raised as the 98th in 1804 and renumbered as the 97th in 1816
97th (The Earl of Ulster's) Regiment of Foot, raised in 1824
Records: John Courtney
Age: 21
Birth Date: abt 1786
Birth Place: Kellashand, Cavan
Military Date: 3 Oct 1807
Unit: 97th Foot Soldiers
John Courtney
Service Date: 1793-1815
Service Place: Europe
Campaign or Service: Napoleonic Wars
Regiment or Unit Name: 97th Regiment of Foot
John Courtney
Start of Muster: 25 Dec 1813
End of Muster: 24 Mar 1814
Stationed or Muster Place: Kinsale
Regiment or Unit: 97th Regiment of Foot
Piece Number: 9667
The baptisms were on Jersey but it may have been after he left the army or he was at Garrison.
The colour Sergeant reference is on the son's Marriage Certificate.
Of course I may have it all wrong.
Vanessa
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You haven't got it wrong at all, I had concentrated on the 1824 plus period and overlooked the previous incarnations, my fault. I also missed the fact that the baptism was a son so unless they called him Sarah, forget the bit about the army index.
I think I have him and it looks as if the references are all him:
The 1828 discharge in Gibraltar of Colour Sergeant John Courtney born in Killasandra County Cavan has the following detail:
Re-enlisted, but into the 12th Regiment of Foot on 25 November 1818 at Limerick at the age of 31. His total service was 20 years 357 days comprising:
25 Sep 1807 to 24 Nov 1818 11 year 61 days and 25 Nov 1818 to 15 Sep 1828, 9 years 295 days.
His first 11 years plus of service was in what the discharge document calls the 96th (it was when he joined it). The document also mentions that he was at Vermeiro (the name is obscured but the correct date is given).
He was therefore serving in the 12th Regiment of Foot in 1824. I'll check out Jersey again.
MaxD
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Thank you
Really appreciate your help
I am assuming he was Irish as he married Harriet Farrell, which is a very Irish name. She was on Jersey with him but I cannot find any further records of her.
I am keen to prove the link to Jersey to confirm that I have the right John Courtney
Thomas was born 1824 James 1827 on Jersey
Vanessa
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97th Regiment was in Canada 1814/15, battle of Plattsburg. Queen's Regiment I think, Royal blue collars and cuffs so Royal regiment.
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This is a history of the 12th Regiment of Foot https://archive.org/details/cihm_48347 in which he served in from November 1818. It confirms that the regiment went to Jersey and Guernsey in 1821 although they left in 1823. That may well mean, as you surmised earlier, that although still belonging to the 12th, he remained on Jersey for a period although he was in Gibraltar in 1828. He was by then fairly senior in rank and it was by no means unusual for men to be attached to a garrison away from their parent unit. His missing service record would tell us that! I can't find any muster books for the two critical years which might have told us. The births are not registered in the Army indices and I think that there will be no other military records to solve your query. Have you thought to contact Jersey for records of the garrison?
MaxD
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Thank you so much. I will have a good read. Looks like this puts him on Jersey at the right time.
I have contacted the Jersey records office and they have been very helpful but they do not hold records of the men in Garrison. Apparently these records were not kept by Jersey.
They did find the baptisms and a death of a John Courtney in 1840 and confirm that Courtney is not a Jersey name so this JC was not born on Jersey.
You have been more than helpful
Vanessa
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Been thinking>>>>
he must have been on Jersey in 1827/28 as James was born in 1827. Can't be him if he left in 1823 for Gibraltar.
Such a puzzle
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The battalion left for Gibraltar but as I suggested in my post he, as a senior man by that time, could well have stayed on Jersey employed away from his regiment for a time. An alternative explanation, although I don't know how realistic it is, is that the wife stayed on Jersey and he had two spells of leave in the critical years! Dare I suggest she had two children by someone else which he was content to call his?
A puzzle indeed but this was after all 200 years ago!
MaxD
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Yes you are right there could be several explanations.
Wonderful to be able to place him on Jersey
Thank you
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I have another piece of info
He may have been Royal Artillery as RA is on the marriage certificate after Colour Sergeant
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A quick look at newspaper reports show there were certainly artillery units on Jersey in the time frame. No luck however finding a John Courtney of the Royal Artillery in on-line records.
MaxD
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Bless you for looking.
I have foundName: John Courtney
Enlistment Age: 25
Discharge Age: 59
Birth Date: abt 1779
Birth Place: Killincan Cavesh
Enlistment Year: 1804
Discharge Year: 1838
Regiment: Royal Regiment Of Artillery
But it is in Fold3 which I do not have access to at the moment.
I'll keep looking