RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: Molly M on Thursday 15 February 18 11:59 GMT (UK)
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Hi Everyone,
I'm new to RootsChat and hoping that someone can help me. I'm trying to track down my great grandfather. His name was James Griffin and he was born around 1865-1867. His parents were Mary Griffin (nee Kelly) and George Griffin. He moved to Scotland and first appeared on the Scotland census in 1891. He married my great grandmother Ellen McKillop in 1894 in Scotland and they had 4 children. I cannot find a James Griffin in Ireland at all with those parents. I found a James Griffin born to Ned Griffin and Mary Griffin (nee Kelly) but that's as close as I can get. On all the census forms it shows him as born in Ireland and my grandmother always said her father was Irish but never said whereabouts he was from. I also found a family tree (not mine) with a George Griffin and Mary Griffin (nee Kelly) in Cavan with a son John born in 1855. I've looked at Ancestry.com/Family Search/Findmypast & Irish Genealogy. Any help or suggestions would be very welcome. Thank you!
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Civil registration of births started in 1864 and for the first few years it is believed that many births weren't registered. So, it's possible that James was either born a little before 1864 or his birth wasn't registered.
What is listed as father George Griffin's occupation?
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Religion?
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Hi Aghadowey, his father's occupation was listed as Farm Labourer.
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Hi Hallmark, I am not absolutely certain. He married into a Roman Catholic family and lived in a Catholic area in Glasgow & I would have assumed was RC however my mother vaguely remembers her mother saying her father had been a convert, this is not definite though. I can't find him in any convert records in Scotland & they married in a Catholic church in Glasgow.
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The years covered by the release of the historic Indexes to the Civil Records of Births, Marriages and Deaths are:
Births: 1864 to 1916
Marriages: 1845* to 1941
Deaths: 1864 to 1966
*non-Roman Catholic Marriages are recorded from 1845, so have you searched for Parent's Marriage if non-Roman Catholic
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Hi Hallmark,
I have searched for the parents' marriage on Ancestry but cannot find it. I've also looked on Irish genealogy with no joy.
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If his birth was registered it's possible it was without his name so a check of Unknown Griffin might get a result.
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Hi Sinann, thanks. Do you actually put Unknown into the search? I hadn't thought of that.
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Hi Sinann, thanks. Do you actually put Unknown into the search? I hadn't thought of that.
Yes...you can then . if online
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Hi Sinann, thanks. Do you actually put Unknown into the search? I hadn't thought of that.
Yes...you can then . if online
;D ;D Yes...you can then . . if online
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Not sure why..
but I typed you can then . if online
twice!!
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crikey
view
Image
keep going missing
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Hi Hallmark,
I've just looked back at my marriage searches & I think they may have all been RC. Where do you look for non RC marriages?
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Hi Hallmark,
Did you post something. It just says
'crikey
view
Image
keep going missing'
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Non RC marriages should be registered from 1845 but I tried George Griffin and didn't get a result.
Just put Unknown in the space for the first name.
I tried looking for a George and a Mary from 1865 to 1870 on the thinking the parents would probably name a child after themselves but I didn't see any with a father George and mother Mary Kelly.
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Hi Hallmark,
Did you post something. It just says
'crikey
view
Image
keep going missing'
Yes...those 2 words kept being deleted from my post they went after the word "then"!!
Yes...you can then . . if online
should have contained those 2 words!!
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Thanks Sinann, I found one 'unknown' which was mother Mary Griffin and 'formerly' crossed out and that was put in incorrectly in the father's column first then that was crossed out too in 1867 which was the year we believed he was born. I guess it's a possibility. i've been through them all from 1863-1870. There weren't any civil records that I could find before that.
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Thanks Sinann, I found one 'unknown' which was mother Mary Griffin and 'formerly' crossed out and that was put in incorrectly in the father's column first then that was crossed out too in 1867 which was the year we believed he was born. I guess it's a possibility. i've been through them all from 1863-1870. There weren't any civil records that I could find before that.
The years covered by the release of the historic Indexes to the Civil Records of Births, Marriages and Deaths are:
Births: 1864 to 1916
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Thanks Sinann, I found one 'unknown' which was mother Mary Griffin and 'formerly' crossed out and that was put in incorrectly in the father's column first then that was crossed out too in 1867 which was the year we believed he was born. I guess it's a possibility. i've been through them all from 1863-1870. There weren't any civil records that I could find before that.
This one?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1867/03483/2280399.pdf
This child would be illegitimate so his mother was never Kelly.
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Hi Sinann,
Yes that's what I thought at first but then the wrong box had been written in first ie father not mother & crossed out. Then 'formerly' was crossed out separately in both boxes. Someone else had registered it a 'Margaret Vaughn' who couldn't write herself so it may be the registrar was having a bad day as the one above is crossed out too.
'This one?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1867/03483/2280399.pdf
This child would be illegitimate so his mother was never Kelly.
[/quote]'
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Formerly is crossed out because she doesn't have a former name, he made a point of writing formerly so he could cross it out again, he wasn't leaving any doubt.
The Registrar was having a bad day, the one above was crossed out and written out below the Griffin one and he started filling in Mary Griffin's name in the box for father. Margaret Vaughan could possible write, people were often intimidated by officialdom and simply did as they were told, "Put your mark here." it's impossible to say for sure from one record.
James could have made up his parent's details, many did to hide the fact their parents were unmarried but there isn't usually any way to prove it, not finding a birth cert or baptism for James doesn't mean he was fibbing just that he may not have been registered and his baptism either didn't survive or isn't online.
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Right ok. Hard to know what to do next. I wondered if he was illegitimate since I couldn't find any records.
Formerly is crossed out because she doesn't have a former name, he made a point of writing formerly so he could cross it out again, he wasn't leaving any doubt.
The Registrar was having a bad day, the one above was crossed out and written out below the Griffin one and he started filling in Mary Griffin's name in the box for father. Margaret Vaughan could possible write, people were often intimidated by officialdom and simply did as they were told, "Put your mark here." it's impossible to say for sure from one record.
James could have made up his parent's details, many did to hide the fact their parents were unmarried but there isn't usually any way to prove it, not finding a birth cert or baptism for James doesn't mean he was fibbing just that he may not have been registered and his baptism either didn't survive or isn't online.