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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Worcestershire => England => Worcestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: sbunter on Saturday 17 February 18 02:20 GMT (UK)

Title: St Thomas, Dudley - lookup needed on original PR only
Post by: sbunter on Saturday 17 February 18 02:20 GMT (UK)
Please can anyone help with a lookup on the original Parish Registers for St Thomas, Dudley.
I have two records from FreeReg:
County   Worcestershire
Place (link for place information)   Dudley
Church name   St Thomas
Register type   Unspecified
Baptism date   10 Feb 1811
Person forename   Zacheriah
Person sex   M
Father forename   Tho.s.
Father surname   MANDER
Mother forename   Sarah

County   Worcestershire
Place (link for place information)   Dudley
Church name   St Thomas
Register type   Unspecified
Baptism date   10 Feb 1811
Person forename   Daniel
Person sex   M
Father forename   -
Father surname   -
Mother forename   Sarah
Mother surname   MANDER

I am convinced that Zachariah and Daniel (my ancestor) are related as the two baptised end up in Bury, Lancashire together and so do their families, and are witnesses at each other's events.

My problem is that I cannot find likely candidates for Thomas & Sarah, was perhaps Thomas a named father of an illegitimate Zachariah?
Were the two records together on the page?
Can they be read any other way?

I have loads of info on the families - it's just Thomas & Sarah I can't identify, I have traced the Birmingham and Banbury ones and don't believe that is them.

Thanks for any help,
in hope,
Sharon
Title: Re: St Thomas, Dudley - lookup needed on original PR only
Post by: goldie61 on Saturday 17 February 18 09:10 GMT (UK)
Familysearch have the film. No 378764 for births 1794 - 1812. https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/253264?availability=Family%20History%20Library
Looks as if you can view it at home (you need to be signed in - free to register), but unfortunately my computer is playing up and won't do it!
Title: Re: St Thomas, Dudley - lookup needed on original PR only
Post by: sbunter on Saturday 17 February 18 09:15 GMT (UK)
No, you have to be at an LDS centre to view - tried it :(
cheers
Title: Re: St Thomas, Dudley - lookup needed on original PR only
Post by: goldie61 on Monday 19 February 18 03:30 GMT (UK)
No, you have to be at an LDS centre to view - tried it :(


No this is not so.
I looked at it today for you.
At a friend's, logged into familysearch with my user name and password, and was able to view the film.
You don't need to go to a FS library. Anyone can view it at home as long as you are registered with an account. Very easy, and FREE!

Unfortunately it doesn't give any more information in the St Thomas register. The vicars, or clerks, of St Thomas were men of few words!
The baptism of Daniel, mother Sarah, just follows in order after the baptism of Zaheriah, son to William and Sarah.

I see there is also a baptism of a MAry Mander 23 Oct 1803, to William and Sarah, and one for a Hannah Mander 17 May 1807, 'mother Sarah' again. No more information again.

If you send me a PM on here with your email address (you're not allowed to put emails addresses on ordinary posts), I can send you what I found.

Title: Re: St Thomas, Dudley - lookup needed on original PR only
Post by: dcbnwh on Monday 19 February 18 10:41 GMT (UK)
I see that when Daniel married again in 1855, he left his father's name blank. It could mean that he couldn't remember it or that he was illegitimate.

David
Title: Re: St Thomas, Dudley - lookup needed on original PR only
Post by: sbunter on Tuesday 20 February 18 03:21 GMT (UK)
Yes, Daniel was certainly illegitimate.
It's the relationship of Zachariah and Mary that I cannot fathom.
Grave 1342 Brunswick Chapel, Bury owned by Zachariah has the following:
Thomas   Mander   buried   1845   9m son of Zachariah
Daniel   Mander   buried   1858   48 son of Sarah
John Eli   Mander   buried   1859   19m son of George son of Zachariah
Mary   Dikinson      buried   1862   58 daughter of William & Sarah
Elizabeth Alice   Mander   buried   1864   5m daughter of George son of Zachariah
Sarah   Talbert      buried   1865   80 mother of Daniel
Joseph   Mander      buried   1845   12 son of Zachariah

So we have a baptism for Mary at Dudley 1804 dau of William & Sarah
a baptism for Zachariah at Dudley 1811 son of Thomas & Sarah
a baptism for Daniel same day as Zachariah son of Sarah

I have had a lookup of the PRs for St Thomas and they are simple with no extra information, Zachariah's baptism is directly above Daniels.

I cannot identify a Thomas & Sarah at Dudley, or a William & Sarah at Dudley.
I suspect that Sarah was the mother to all of them, but then maybe I want to make an easy assumption :(
The families were definitely connected, followed each other around the country, and witnesses at each others marriages, lived in the same places.
It's annoying me because I would like to put them in my tree :D

thanks for any extra eyes on this problem,
cheers,
Sharon
Title: Re: St Thomas, Dudley - lookup needed on original PR only
Post by: Dundee on Tuesday 20 February 18 04:12 GMT (UK)
No, you have to be at an LDS centre to view - tried it :(


No this is not so.
I looked at it today for you.
At a friend's, logged into familysearch with my user name and password, and was able to view the film.
You don't need to go to a FS library. Anyone can view it at home as long as you are registered with an account. Very easy, and FREE!


Well I am logged in and can't view it...

To view these images you must do one of the following:

Access the site at a family history center.
Access the site at a FamilySearch affiliate library.


Debra  :)
Title: Re: St Thomas, Dudley - lookup needed on original PR only
Post by: Dundee on Tuesday 20 February 18 04:51 GMT (UK)
If they are related at all wouldn't it be possible that Thomas, William and the unmarried Sarah are all siblings?

Debra  :)
Title: Re: St Thomas, Dudley - lookup needed on original PR only
Post by: sbunter on Tuesday 20 February 18 05:58 GMT (UK)
William was born 1793 so not old enough to be Mary's father, and there was no Thomas, so no.
Title: Re: St Thomas, Dudley - lookup needed on original PR only
Post by: goldie61 on Tuesday 20 February 18 07:51 GMT (UK)
No, you have to be at an LDS centre to view - tried it :(


No this is not so.
I looked at it today for you.
At a friend's, logged into familysearch with my user name and password, and was able to view the film.
You don't need to go to a FS library. Anyone can view it at home as long as you are registered with an account. Very easy, and FREE!


Well I am logged in and can't view it...

To view these images you must do one of the following:

Access the site at a family history center.
Access the site at a FamilySearch affiliate library.


Debra  :)

Well how very very odd!  :-\
I definitely could see the whole film. No little lock next to it, but the usual magnifying glass and camera icon.
A real mystery!
Title: Re: St Thomas, Dudley - lookup needed on original PR only
Post by: sbunter on Tuesday 20 February 18 09:10 GMT (UK)
No, you have to be at an LDS centre to view - tried it :(


No this is not so.
I looked at it today for you.
At a friend's, logged into familysearch with my user name and password, and was able to view the film.
You don't need to go to a FS library. Anyone can view it at home as long as you are registered with an account. Very easy, and FREE!


Well I am logged in and can't view it...

To view these images you must do one of the following:

Access the site at a family history center.
Access the site at a FamilySearch affiliate library.


Debra  :)

Well how very very odd!  :-\
I definitely could see the whole film. No little lock next to it, but the usual magnifying glass and camera icon.
A real mystery!

You were/are very lucky goldie61, I tried loads of times and ways with no luck here!
You had better make the most of it :)
Title: Re: St Thomas, Dudley - lookup needed on original PR only
Post by: Dundee on Tuesday 20 February 18 11:41 GMT (UK)
William was born 1793 so not old enough to be Mary's father, and there was no Thomas, so no.

I don't understand.  William and Sarah had a child named Mary baptised in 1803.  Thomas and Sarah had a child baptised in 1811, and a (probably) unmarried Sarah had a child baptised in 1811.  This suggests to me that William, Thomas and Sarah were of a similar generation.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: St Thomas, Dudley - lookup needed on original PR only
Post by: Dundee on Tuesday 20 February 18 12:03 GMT (UK)
From another thread:

There's a marriage (transcription only) of a -
Sarah Mander, 11 Aug 1811, place Sedgley, to an Edward Grifffiths

Did Sarah then remarry to Thomas TALBOT?

Name: Thomas TALBOT
Spouse's Name: Sarah Mander GRIFFITHS
Event Date: 18 Apr 1813
Event Place: Tipton,Stafford,England

Sarah   Talbert      buried   1865   80 mother of Daniel

I would say that the William MANDER connected to these families was definitely not born in 1793.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: St Thomas, Dudley - lookup needed on original PR only
Post by: sbunter on Tuesday 20 February 18 12:12 GMT (UK)
Correct on the marriages for Sarah, there was no sibling Thomas, no gaps where one would fit.
Title: Re: St Thomas, Dudley - lookup needed on original PR only
Post by: philheeks on Saturday 24 February 18 12:24 GMT (UK)
Hi There

give this site a try

www.genealogylinks.net/uk/england/worcestershire/parish-registers.htm

Ive not tried it for some time but I know Dudley st Thomas registers used to be on it but only in transcript form

All the very best

Phil

ps Ive just had a look at this site & was unable to get on so I wonder if the data has been purchased by Ancestry or the like - sorry about that