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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Nigel Porter on Tuesday 20 February 18 21:03 GMT (UK)
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My GG Uncle Joseph Asher (b.1848 Helpringham - d ?) moved to London between 1861 and 1866 when he married Emma Meacham (b. 1845 Wolverton -d.1907 Heckington) on 11th July 1866 in Islington. In 1871 they are living in West Ham with 3 children (Joseph b.1866 Islington, Emma Rosina b.1868 Islington and George b. 1870 Plaistow). However by 1881 Joseph is a lodger in Islington, but his family are living in Paddington and it appears that Emma has remarried to John Summers and they have a son James (b. 1880, possible baptism 8 Jan 1880). Living with Emma are the Asher children Joseph, George and Lizzie (I think?) (b. 1873 Paddington) and Emma Rosina had moved back to Lincolnshire. I have traced Emma Rosina and Joseph junior after 1881, but the others are a mystery.
So my questions are?
Where was Joseph senior after 1880?
I can't find a marriage between Emma and John Summers, or them and their family after 1881?
I'm struggling to find George or Lizzie Asher after 1881?
All help gratefully received.
Thanks
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George was registered as John William George, so may be lurking somewhere under that name
I'm not finding Joseph in Islington on 1881
The last Asher/Meacham child I find is ELiza b 1873 in Kensington - presumably your Lizzie
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James is registered with mmn Asher
Q1 1880 KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 16
Some more potential children
SUMMERS, ALICE mmn MEACHEM
Q1 1882 KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 55
Baptism 30 March 1882 to John, labourer and Emma
SUMMERS, FREDERICK JOHN mmn MEACHEN
Q1 1884 KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 186
Baptism 20 Feb 1884 to John a stableman, and Emma
SUMMERS, ANNIE mmn ASHER
Q3 1885 PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 30
SUMMERS, HENRY WILLIAM mmn ASHER
Q1 1887 PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 40
SUMMERS, ROSE mmn ASHER
Q1 1889 PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 37
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Asker in the 1881 index?
There's a Joseph Asher died in New Zealand in 1919, age 70. No idea if it's the right one.
That one does feature in NZ newspapers, wife was Hannah. A daughter Annie Bilton Asher was born in NZ in 1883. A methodist and freemason.
Not promising?
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No idea if it's the right one.
It isn't! I think he may be the one who married Hannah Read in Grantham in 1871
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Possible sightings of James, ALice and Frederick in the Fulham workhouse in APril and Oct 1890 - admitted togtehr.
Also 1891 - ALice Summers b c1883 is an inmate in the St Pancras [workhouse] school in Leavensden, Watford
An alternative option is
1891 - Stoney Stratford
John Hooton 35
Ellen Hooton 40
Harry Hooton 7 - b Wolverton
Herbert Hooton 5
Fredk Hooton 2
James Somers 10 - boarder, b Fulham, orphan
Alice Somers 9 - boarder, b Fulham, orphan
1901 the Hootons have one Frederick Somers b London c1883 living with them
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Possible death of Emma?
Name: Emma Summers
Born c1845
Registration Apr-May-Jun 1889
Age 44
Pancras Volume 1b page 24
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On A*try London Transport Staff Registers, 1863-1931 there's a listing for Joseph ASHER born ~1847 an "outside? policeman" formerly guard for something I can't make out. However,it says he died March 6,1885. I do not see a likely matching death. ???
Maureen
EDIT: There's a 36 yr old John ASHER who dies in Islington March Qtr 1885,though.
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I think you've cracked it Maureen!
Burial at Islington Cemetery, 10 March 1885 of a Joseph Asher.
And the Joseph in Islington in 1881 was a Railway Guard.
John
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Oh,that's great,John! Thanks for finding the burial. :)
Maureen
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Hi
It looks like it was a mistake in the original GRO index (it does say John on the image)
The new one says
ASHER, JOSEPH 36
GRO Reference: 1885 M Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 226
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Never even thought to look there. ::)
Maureen
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Many thanks for all the help and I think your findings are correct. John William George and Eliza check out as the Asher children and James does look very likely, but it's interesting that his mother is shown as Asher when her true maiden name, if it was her, would be Meacham? I still can't find an Asher/Summers marriage, but then I suspect there was none.
The Somers children living with the Hooton's looks likely too, as Emma Meacham was from Wolverton, so these could be relatives.
The death of Joseph in 1885 also looks likely given his age and railway employment, but until I get a death certificate I won't know.
Finally the Emma Summers death looks a strong possibility and again a death certificate would be the only way to confirm it.
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The three admitted to Fulham Rd Workhouse in April 1890 are almost certainly them. Their next of kin is uncle George Asher
An address in Lancelot Place, Knightsbridge is given, not sure if his or theirs
Digging in unindexed workhouse records I've found various records with the three of them - Fred often called Frank - listed as "deserted" They were definitley siblings and all were boarded out with the Hootons by Westminster poor law union. This union had a number of foster parents in Stony Stratford & Wolverton, so their arival there may be a total coincidence, despite thier background. All three were put into service/employment, although Frank/Fred was back and forth to the infirmary and Royal Orthopaedic Hospital as a child.
So forth nothing of their previous history
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Hello, Once again thanks for all the help 3 years ago and I've revisited this line and ordered the relevant death certificates. Firstly Joseph died of a heart attack on 6th March 1885 and it's confirmed as his brother William is the witness. He's listed as a Railway Policeman, so the other discoveries of railway records are also confirmed. The DC for Emma looks correct, with her death on 13th May 1889 at 54 New Compton Street, but I can't 100% prove it yet, so I'll keep checking. However although Emma's children with John Summers have been tracked, I still can't find what happened to Eliza Asher b. 1873 after the 1881 census.