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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Christianmpoulsen on Tuesday 20 February 18 21:45 GMT (UK)

Title: William Armstrong of Molla Burn, Chollerton
Post by: Christianmpoulsen on Tuesday 20 February 18 21:45 GMT (UK)
New mystery. This is what I know

William Armstrong farmer of St John Lee parish married Mary Ann Lowes on 9 Nov 1815 in Simonburn. He doesnít appear in 1841 census, wife is head living with children, same in 185, or 1861 wife is living alone, or 1871 wife is living with daughter and her husband.

I had assumed heíd died.

I then found a probate record (attached) which indicate he died 1 Jan 1866. I am fairly certain this is the same William as a) heís a farmer b) heís living near Chollerton c) his son is called Henry who is a miner in Blutcher Pit - all these things match

I then looked back at the census where heís missing, and I noticed that his wife is marked as married not widowed on the 41, 51 and 61 census and then widowed in 71

My question is what happened to him, did he live elsewhereor go to prison? Quite a few William Armstrong appeared for Northumberland criminal records at that time, but I donít know how to track if it could be him.

I was also wondering where Molla Burn is / was, google search didnít show anything.

If this probate is him, then I also have an estimated birth year of 1777 now.
Title: Re: William Armstrong of Molla Burn, Chollerton
Post by: Radcliff on Tuesday 20 February 18 22:59 GMT (UK)
Struggling to find it on a map but I suspect near Gunnerton
if you come up from Gunnerton to Hill Heads,Burn Cottages are on the left hand side of the road perhaps this was Molla Burn
Vision of Britain maps,search Chollerton
Title: Re: William Armstrong of Molla Burn, Chollerton
Post by: Christianmpoulsen on Tuesday 20 February 18 23:25 GMT (UK)
I missed off the fact that probate was granted 8 Sept 1884, but he died in 1866. Why would there be an 18 year gap between death and probate?
Title: Re: William Armstrong of Molla Burn, Chollerton
Post by: Christianmpoulsen on Wednesday 21 February 18 00:35 GMT (UK)
Struggling to find it on a map but I suspect near Gunnerton
if you come up from Gunnerton to Hill Heads,Burn Cottages are on the left hand side of the road perhaps this was Molla Burn
Vision of Britain maps,search Chollerton
Thanks, Iíve managed to find it now by going through the Gunnerton census. Itís actually Mallow Burn, misspelt. Looks likes 2 households there. Iím not finding William on the 1861 census there or anyone I recognise.
Title: Re: William Armstrong of Molla Burn, Chollerton
Post by: Tickettyboo on Wednesday 21 February 18 13:30 GMT (UK)
I missed off the fact that probate was granted 8 Sept 1884, but he died in 1866. Why would there be an 18 year gap between death and probate?

The probate calendar shows that Administration of the estate was granted, not probate (in other words there was no will). If his wife survived him she may not have bothered with getting a grant of admin and then, when she died, their son would have had to apply for admin of his father's estate as it would still have been legally in the father's name and had never been passed to the wife.
Do you know when she died?
Boo
Title: Re: William Armstrong of Molla Burn, Chollerton
Post by: JenB on Wednesday 21 February 18 14:25 GMT (UK)
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=16&lat=55.0794&lon=-2.1664&layers=6&right=BingHyb

and

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/847375
Title: Re: William Armstrong of Molla Burn, Chollerton
Post by: JenB on Wednesday 21 February 18 14:55 GMT (UK)
Quote
If this probate is him, then I also have an estimated birth year of 1777 now

Both the GRO index and his burial record http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lma/ give his age at death as 73, which by my calculation makes him born c.1793 if he died 1866  :-\

Quote
I am fairly certain this is the same William as a) heís a farmer

He's a farm labourer in 1866, which isn't the same thing  :)

Might this be him in 1861  :-\  :-\ ( I haven't followed this one through at all)

RG9 / 3868 / 134 / 17

Wellhaugh, Kielder

(amongst many other railway labourers)

William Armstrong, lodger, m, 68, railway labourer, Northumberland
Title: Re: William Armstrong of Molla Burn, Chollerton
Post by: Christianmpoulsen on Wednesday 21 February 18 16:37 GMT (UK)
I missed off the fact that probate was granted 8 Sept 1884, but he died in 1866. Why would there be an 18 year gap between death and probate?

The probate calendar shows that Administration of the estate was granted, not probate (in other words there was no will). If his wife survived him she may not have bothered with getting a grant of admin and then, when she died, their son would have had to apply for admin of his father's estate as it would still have been legally in the father's name and had never been passed to the wife.
Do you know when she died?
Boo
Hi Boo, she died in 1878 I believe, so this would fit what youíre explaining. There was then a six year gap for him to start and finish the process.
Title: Re: William Armstrong of Molla Burn, Chollerton
Post by: Christianmpoulsen on Wednesday 21 February 18 16:39 GMT (UK)
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=16&lat=55.0794&lon=-2.1664&layers=6&right=BingHyb

and

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/847375
Thanks JenB. Itís quite a beautiful place.
Title: Re: William Armstrong of Molla Burn, Chollerton
Post by: Christianmpoulsen on Wednesday 21 February 18 16:43 GMT (UK)
Quote
If this probate is him, then I also have an estimated birth year of 1777 now

Both the GRO index and his burial record http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lma/ give his age at death as 73, which by my calculation makes him born c.1793 if he died 1866  :-\

Quote
I am fairly certain this is the same William as a) heís a farmer

He's a farm labourer in 1866, which isn't the same thing  :)

Might this be him in 1861  :-\  :-\ ( I haven't followed this one through at all)

RG9 / 3868 / 134 / 17

Wellhaugh, Kielder

(amongst many other railway labourers)

William Armstrong, lodger, m, 68, railway labourer, Northumberland

Iíll have a look at this tonight thanks
I did have a look at Mallow Burn occupants for 1861 and 1871 and neither of the two families at that address in those years seemed to be a known link to William. There was an Armstrong at Gunnerton Hill Head however, which was an extra after Mallow Burn in one of the census, but again, not an Armstrong I recognise or have on my tree as yet. Iím curious to know why he was there in 1866, in what capacity, was it family or was he lodging. Also why all those years living away from his wife.
Title: Re: William Armstrong of Molla Burn, Chollerton
Post by: JenB on Wednesday 21 February 18 17:39 GMT (UK)
I see that on his son's marriage cert. of 1854 William is described as a quarryman
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=784356.msg6392437#msg6392437

so....  one to think about  :-\

1851 census

HO 107 / 2411 / 76 / 35
Richard Street, Longbenton

in the household of Hannah Taylor, widow and her brother Thomas Forster, a journeyman stonemason

William Armstrong, lodger, m, 54, stone cutter, Northumberland Chollerton

in the 1841 census, have you discounted:

HO 107 / 837/19/9/11
Birtley Village  (some 8 miles n. of Chollerton)

William Armstrong, 40*, Ag. lab., Y

*ages were rounded down so he could have been anything up to 44 years old.
Title: Re: William Armstrong of Molla Burn, Chollerton
Post by: JenB on Wednesday 21 February 18 18:11 GMT (UK)
Interestingly, I see that on the baptism of his daughter, Mary Ann, at Chollerton in 1828 http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lmb/
William's residence is given as Burn Mouth, which is a very short distance south from Mollaburn
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=16&lat=55.0663&lon=-2.1599&layers=6&right=BingHyb
and
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=389336&Y=575205&A=Y&Z=120 (look above and below the arrow)
Title: Re: William Armstrong of Molla Burn, Chollerton
Post by: Christianmpoulsen on Thursday 22 February 18 00:47 GMT (UK)
Quote
If this probate is him, then I also have an estimated birth year of 1777 now

Both the GRO index and his burial record http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lma/ give his age at death as 73, which by my calculation makes him born c.1793 if he died 1866  :-\

Quote
I am fairly certain this is the same William as a) heís a farmer

He's a farm labourer in 1866, which isn't the same thing  :)

Might this be him in 1861  :-\  :-\ ( I haven't followed this one through at all)

RG9 / 3868 / 134 / 17

Wellhaugh, Kielder

(amongst many other railway labourers)

William Armstrong, lodger, m, 68, railway labourer, Northumberland

Thanks for the burial record, this does make him born circa 1793. The 1861 census looks like a distinct possibility, its near where he was living, he's working as a labourer and he is listed as married.
Title: Re: William Armstrong of Molla Burn, Chollerton
Post by: Christianmpoulsen on Thursday 22 February 18 00:59 GMT (UK)
Interestingly, I see that on the baptism of his daughter, Mary Ann, at Chollerton in 1828 http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lmb/
William's residence is given as Burn Mouth, which is a very short distance south from Mollaburn
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=16&lat=55.0663&lon=-2.1599&layers=6&right=BingHyb
and
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=389336&Y=575205&A=Y&Z=120 (look above and below the arrow)
Thanks Jen B. Also, I have bookmarked your National Library of Scotland Map site, very useful!