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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Shropshire => England => Shropshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Carliol on Wednesday 21 February 18 18:16 GMT (UK)
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I have hit a brick wall tracing the parents of Alfred John Lloyd, born 1849/1850 in Coalport, and think that he might have been the illegitimate son of Susannah Lloyd. His marriage certificate might reveal the name of his father. I would be grateful to hear if anyone might have access to his marriage certificate.
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Hi the marriage 29th May 1871 gives his father as Alfred BA?NALL occ Labourer
Alfred John Lloyd was a Chair Maker
Keyboard86
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Hi the marriage 29th May 1871 gives his father as Alfred BA?NALL occ Labourer
Alfred John Lloyd was a Chair Maker
Keyboard86
Alfred Bagnall
Susannah Louisa Lloyd married Alfred Bagnall in 23 June 1851, Madeley
On the1851 Alfred was age 2, living in his grandfather's household, therefore Alfred Bagnall could be his step father.
Have you found Alfred Lloyds' birth record?
JJ
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:) The reason I put the ? in name is that it looked possibly to be a "Y" and an Alfred Baynall b c 1829 occ Labourer is a visitor with a Roberts family in Coalport in 1851 census?
Census ref HO107/1989/244/55
Keyboard86
:D Why do amendments not show up with "Red Writing"
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Hi again, in 1861 census Alfred J Bagnall aged 12 with other siblings, parents Alfred 26 and Susannah L 34 residing at 4, Indine Road, Madeley
Census ref RG09/1858/58/42
Keyboard86
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Hi in 1871 Alfred Bagnall 21 occ Chair Maker b Coalport is with his married mother Susannah and siblings in Madeley
Census ref RG10/2756/24/44
His father Alfred Bagnall married aged 42 occ Railway Labourer is a boarder in Llandovery, Carmarthenshire
Census ref RG10/5478/32/11
EDIT the 23rd June 1851 marriage was:-
Alfred Cornelius Bagnal Full age occ Blacksmith Father Cornelius Griifiths occ Boat Builder
Susannah Louisa Lloyd Full age Father John Owen Lloyd occ Waterman
Marriage Dawley Magna, both resident Dawley
Keyboard86
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I would suggest if the 1861 census is recording that father Alfred is 26 and son Alfred John Bagnall is 12 then it is unlikely that Alfred fathered him at 14 - although not impossible!
Pheno
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I would suggest if the 1861 census is recording that father Alfred is 26 and son Alfred John Bagnall is 12 then it is unlikely that Alfred fathered him at 14 - although not impossible!
Pheno
:) I would suggest age is wrong in 1861 but 1851 and 1871 about right?
An Alfred Bagnall was baptised 27th Sept 1829 Madeley Mother Ann shown as Illegitimate.
Susanna Louisa Bagnall was buried 12th February 1883 Madeley aged 55 address Madeley Wood.
Their is a daughter Susannah Elizabeth Bishop Bagnall b Sept qtr 1870 Madeley mmn Lloyd with parents Alfred 58 and Susannah 54 and Grandchildren Frederick 8 and Lora ( Laura ) aged 1 in 1881 Madeley
Census ref RG11/2638/79/14
Alfred 62 Susan 20 Laura 12 and Fred 17 are at Iron Bridge, Madeley in 1891 census ref RG12/2099/79/14
In 1901 census Alfred uses the middle initial "C" aged 72 with his two Grandchldren Frederick & Laura
Census ref RG13/2526/66/13
And he is still alive aged 82 with Lloyd relatives in 1911
Keyboard86
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Hi again, I do hope I have followed the correct Alfred C Bagnall, as the one in 1911 lived at 11, Hillside, Iron Bridge and died 9th March 1919 occ Retired Platelayer Probate Shrewsbury 1st April to Joseph William White occ Officer in His Majesty's Army RAMC Effects £256 17s 8d, and the "Grandchildren" in 1911 do not appear to be those of Alfred Lloyd b c 1849 and Hannah, and why does his yob show as c 1829 after death of Susannah?.
Keyboard86
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Many thanks everyone for all your research into Alfred and demolishing my brick wall!! It confirms that he was the illegitimate son of Susannah Lloyd. I have now found his baptism -
18 May 1849 - Madeley - Alfred John Bagnell. Father - Alfred Bagnell, Mother - Susan Lloyd
Interestingly, his birth does not appear to have been registered until 1852. GRO online index -
June Quarter 1852 - Madeley - Alfred John Bagnall. MMN - Lloyd
After being baptised and registered with the surname Bagnall, quite why he changed it to Lloyd in adulthood we shall never know. Perhaps he resented Alfred Bagnall for 'having his way' with his mother!! Regarding your last post, keyboard86, in the 1911 Census Laura L Lloyd is in the 1881, 1891 & 1901 Censuses as Laura (Lora) Bagnall, grand daughter of Alfred Bagnall. She married Thomas W Lloyd. I cannot follow your last comment about Alfred's yob! So it is the correct Alfred Bagnall.
Thanks again everyone for all your help. It really is much appreciated.
Geoff
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:) Forgot about Laura possibly marrying a Lloyd!
Just found it odd that the census age of Alfred ( C ) Bagnall varied until 1891/1901/1911 and death ie 1829?
Who were the parents of Frederick & Laura?!
Suggest that Alfred b 1849 knew he was illegitimate and reverted to his mothers name?!
Keyboard86
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Have found the GRO online birth index entry for Laura Louisa Bagnall in Dec 1879 Quarter in Madeley but MMN is not given. The only possible entry I can find for Frederick Bagnall is Mar 1871 Quarter in Market Dayton, again MMN is not given, but this does not match with his YOB on census entries i.e. 1873/1874. Cannot find any baptism records for either one.
If anyone has access to Laura's marriage certificate this might give her father's name. She married Thomas W Lloyd on 26 June 1904 in Madeley.
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Hi again, their is a Private baptism 18th December 1872 address Ironbridge of a Frederick Josiah Bagnall Mother Elizabeth Anne, no apparent mention of illegitimancy, although the one above states illegitimate?!
Keyboard86
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Hi again, just getting notes on pad onto thread, at present purchase of certificate for Laura L and Thomas W Lloyd marriage only route, but believe she was illegitimate.
The only child of Thomas W and Louisa L I can locate, was a Thomas Alfred Lloyd ,his deatb could possibly be born 12th November 1904 death Dec qtr 1969 Dudley, Laura L Lloyd possibly died June 1958 Rowley Regis aged 78
Thomas W Lloyd b c 1882 Dec qtr 1946 Wenlock aged 64
Keyboard86
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Hi again, just getting notes on pad onto thread, at present purchase of certificate for Laura L and Thomas W Lloyd marriage only route, but believe she was illegitimate.
The only child of Thomas W and Louisa L I can locate, was a Thomas Alfred Lloyd ,his death could possibly be born 12th November 1904 death Dec qtr 1969 Dudley, Laura L Lloyd possibly died June 1958 Rowley Regis aged 78
Thomas W Lloyd b c 1882 Dec qtr 1946 Wenlock aged 64
Keyboard86
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Thanks for the information Keyboard86. The transcription of Laura's 1904 marriage certificate on 'Find My Past' does not give names of either her or Thomas' father and the image is not available. I have traced Frederick's marriage in 1901 in Madeley, but only from the GRO entry. I was wondering if I made a separate lookup request for Laura's full marriage certificate details it might bring some response?
Geoff
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Hi only a thought, if the marriage was not in a Church but a Register/Registry Office it will be necessary to purchase it?
Keyboard86
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Good point. I will first request a separate lookup and see what response it brings.
Geoff
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Good point. I will first request a separate lookup and see what response it brings.
Geoff
Please link this thread to any new thread, the baptism of Laura Louisa and Frederick ( if not the Frederick Josiah) might help?
Keyboard86
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OK located Laura Louisa and Thomas William Lloyd in 1939 Wenlock, names "swapped" around, Louise Laura Lloyd b 7th September 1879, same "Swap" for Thomas William eg William T.
Looks as though Wenlock is the whereabouts of Ada Bagnall as possibly a Widow, Frederick Arthur Bagnall married an Ada Wilde Sept qtr 1901 Madeley, and also son Alfred William Bagnall b June qtr 1903 married to an Emma, and with a Fletcher link, an Alfred W Bagnall married an Emma Fletcher June qtr 1939 Madeley.
Keyboard86
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Have been out of action due to illness. Thanks for additional information keyboard86. As per my last two messages, I am going to request a look up for Louisa's full marriage details, but would appreciate you elaborating on your comment -'please link this thread to any new thread....'
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Have been out of action due to illness. Thanks for additional information keyboard86. As per my last two messages, I am going to request a look up for Louisa's full marriage details, but would appreciate you elaborating on your comment -'please link this thread to any new thread....'
Hi all that was suggested was to link this thread to any new one or at least mention what has been already obtained to stop people "doubling up" on searching for information that has already been provided?
Keyboard86
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How do you link a new thread to an existing one?