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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Monmouthshire => Topic started by: pomp on Sunday 04 March 18 12:55 GMT (UK)

Title: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: pomp on Sunday 04 March 18 12:55 GMT (UK)
Good afternoon all

Does anyone know where I can access an old on line map of Tredegar (1850-1900)? I'm trying to look at the movements of my ancestors.

Thank you

David
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 04 March 18 13:06 GMT (UK)
There's one here. Zoom in and look around:

http://maps.nls.uk/view/101605940#


Added - also a later one

http://maps.nls.uk/view/102186082#


Gadget
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 04 March 18 13:11 GMT (UK)
The 25 ins to mile are more detailed but you'd need to select particular parts of the town:

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/find/#zoom=12&lat=51.7351&lon=-3.2813&layers=101&b=1&point=51.7204,-3.2423
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: pomp on Sunday 04 March 18 13:20 GMT (UK)

Thanks Gadget  ;D
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: MarMnkly on Sunday 04 March 18 13:51 GMT (UK)
Additionally the tithe maps  are recently available locating properties and occupants that had land/fields associated with them. It was previously called Cynefin whilst being digitalised, and now called 'Places of Wales' https://places.library.wales/ on the National Library of Wales website.
You can type in Tredegar into 'find a place' at the above link, and then overlay the tithe map (right hand side of page) when the modern map comes up
I'm afraid it is a bit addictive  ;D ;D

Mar
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 04 March 18 15:25 GMT (UK)
I understood pomp to be interested in addresses between 1850-1900 and the tithe maps were produced  between 1838 and 1850   ( https://www.llgc.org.uk/index.php?id=7347 ), so some of the later addresses would not show and the occupants would not be the same.


Gadget

Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: MarMnkly on Sunday 04 March 18 17:17 GMT (UK)
Yes, a little bit early - 1846
Mar
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 04 March 18 17:38 GMT (UK)
I must agree with you that the Tithe maps are addictive.  I found two different sets of ancestors occupying fairly close fields, houses and gardens. They're also interesting to track the local gentry  :D
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: pomp on Saturday 10 March 18 09:32 GMT (UK)
Thanks everybody - sorry about being tardy in my reply: a busy week teaching.

David
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: Mart 'n' Al on Saturday 10 March 18 09:41 GMT (UK)
David, I don't think there's any need to apologise for being late in giving your thanks. It always strikes me as a slightly pointless exercise comma and there are in fact some forums where you can just click an icon to send thanks. I once even had a very unpleasant email from somebody who actually checked up on what other comments I posted on instead of sending her thanks. I actually hate getting a reminder email saying that a new comment has been added to a thread that I am following only to find out that is just one or two words or even one of those cartoon faces.  Naturally, please don't thank me for this comment.  I will now remove my tongue from my cheek. No doubt somebody else will give me a tongue lashing for my cheek.

Martin
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 10 March 18 11:43 GMT (UK)
Not a tongue lashing but wondered about your post as it doesn't seem to be anything about maps of Tredegar  ???
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: pomp on Saturday 10 March 18 14:22 GMT (UK)
Hi Gadget

I wanted to look into the streets of Tedegar to see where my ancestors were living. They were in Pit Row and Iron Row in the main, possiblly Pond Row too, hence my request.

Good fun this family history malarkey :-)
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 10 March 18 14:33 GMT (UK)
Hi pomp - no problem with your request. It was Mart'n'Al, I was querying as he was commenting on your thanks :-\

I think I remember going around the old maps looking for those rows a while back. I think it might be that you have to look at the 25 ins to the mile map that might show them. Have you looked at the enumerators descriptions of the 'walk' in the pieces that your ancestors lived on any of the censuses. Or even just looking through the adjacent pages.  It might help you pinpoint where they are.

If you list some names, DofB, etc. we might be able to help as well.

Gadget
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 10 March 18 15:45 GMT (UK)
 :D

Iron Row:

http://maps.nls.uk/view/102186079#zoom=6&lat=3349&lon=2502&layers=BT


Gadget
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: pomp on Saturday 10 March 18 15:55 GMT (UK)
:D

Iron Row:

http://maps.nls.uk/view/102186079#zoom=6&lat=3349&lon=2502&layers=BT


Gadget

Oh fantastic thank you (if I’m allowed to say that)

 :D
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: BushInn1746 on Saturday 10 March 18 15:59 GMT (UK)
I understood pomp to be interested in addresses between 1850-1900 and the tithe maps were produced  between 1838 and 1850   ( https://www.llgc.org.uk/index.php?id=7347 ), so some of the later addresses would not show and the occupants would not be the same.

Gadget

Tithe Map
The Tithe Maps were produced 1830s to mid 19th Century, to map out, only the Tithable Lands the old properties and fields liable to Tithe. Tithable Lands were the older Inclosures of Property; Farms and Fields.

The old Tithe payment was being commuted to a 'Rent Charge', so Parishes with old Tithable Lands were surveyed.

Parliamentary Enclosure Acts
From the previous 18th Century, the Parliamentary Inclosure of Land by Parliamentary Act (after 1730 in our Town) were often exempt of Tithe and therefore depicted as blank areas on our 1842 Tithe Map, despite them being inhabited with Houses; Farms and Fields, well before the Tithe Map was Surveyed.

Our 1842 Tithe Map (Nuneaton Parish) only shows Properties, Farms and Old Fields (about 6,000 acres) Inclosed before 1730, despite the remaining 6,000 acres of our Parish being inclosed under the first Parliamentary Act of 1730 and the last Parliamentary Act of 1802 (but blank on our 1842 Map of the Titheable Lands, despite persons and farmers occupying the blank land).

Summary
Therefore, residences and people might show in an 1841 Census (and be the Owner or Main Occupier), but may NOT always be on the Tithe Map, nor listed in the Tithe Apportionment Schedule of 1842.

So in 1841 they might live in an area, depicted as a blank area on an 1842 Tithe Map, for which there is no numbering and no listing in the Tithe Apportionment Schedule, but the Land has already been inclosed (divided up into individual properties and fields) as Tithe Exempt before the Tithe Map Survey date.

If this is the case, you then need to look for Enclosure Acts and accompanying Maps, or Deeds.

Tithable Property - Exempt of Tithe
For a payment (usually one-off payment) to the Queen Anne's Bounty Office, you could become exempt of Tithe Payment.

Mark
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 10 March 18 16:01 GMT (UK)
Link to location of Pond Row:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=674334.0

Mark - the tithe maps aren't relevant to this query - interesting as they are.

Gadget

Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: pomp on Saturday 10 March 18 16:17 GMT (UK)
Hi pomp - no problem with your request. It was Mart'n'Al, I was querying as he was commenting on your thanks :-\

I think I remember going around the old maps looking for those rows a while back. I think it might be that you have to look at the 25 ins to the mile map that might show them. Have you looked at the enumerators descriptions of the 'walk' in the pieces that your ancestors lived on any of the censuses. Or even just looking through the adjacent pages.  It might help you pinpoint where they are.

If you list some names, DofB, etc. we might be able to help as well.

Gadget

I have attached the street visited before Pit Row Tredegar, are you able to decipher?

Regards

David

Copyright Image removed
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 10 March 18 16:20 GMT (UK)
Is it Queen Street?
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 10 March 18 16:24 GMT (UK)
This link has a Queens Square, leaing from Queen Victoria Street with a Disused Pit to the West.

http://maps.nls.uk/view/102186079#zoom=5&lat=3336&lon=1998&layers=BT
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: pomp on Saturday 10 March 18 16:30 GMT (UK)
Is it Queen Street?

I'm sorry Gadget this reference is in Blaina

David
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 10 March 18 16:31 GMT (UK)
Is it Queen Street?

I'm sorry Gadget this reference is in Blaina

David

Your census ref or mine map ref?
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 10 March 18 16:36 GMT (UK)
Just noticed Aberystruth at top of your snip - am looking at the Blaina maps now
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 10 March 18 16:38 GMT (UK)
Queen Street here:

http://maps.nls.uk/view/102186091#zoom=5&lat=2501&lon=4035&layers=BT

Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: pomp on Saturday 10 March 18 16:40 GMT (UK)
Just noticed Aberystruth at top of your snip - am looking at the Blaina maps now

In the census there is a Hope St and Church St I think but difficult to read
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 10 March 18 16:50 GMT (UK)
Yes - close to Queen Street on modern OS map. Problem is that the very large scale maps for Tredegar-Blaenau are not available at NLS map site and you need to be a signed up member for the Old-maps site.

The only  6 ins ones at NLS don't show Pit Row and are 1915+.  Could they have been demolished before then?
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 10 March 18 16:54 GMT (UK)
The link that I gave has

Queen Street
Hope Street
Pump Street
Church Street

http://maps.nls.uk/view/102186091#zoom=5&lat=2411&lon=4045&layers=BT

There are some buildings/a row of houses to the north of Queen St that aren't labelled - a public house at both ends.
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: pomp on Saturday 10 March 18 16:57 GMT (UK)
I think the pit was the Globe and also known as Globe Pit Row
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 10 March 18 17:05 GMT (UK)
Been 'walking' through the 1881 census.  Pit Row seems to be sandwiched between Queen Street and Hope Street/Queen Street as if it was adjacent/at right angles to both streets  :-\

It has

Hope Street.....
Queen Street.........
Pit Row
Hope Street
Queen street
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 10 March 18 17:14 GMT (UK)
Can you see a  Globe Pit Row. It's on the same description/leader  page as Hope Street. It's just before Pump Street.

Added - Missed you post about it being called Globe Pit Row - sorry
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 10 March 18 17:20 GMT (UK)
Reading the census description against the map, I'm thinking it might be that part that has Picture Theatre on one side of the street and Cross Street on the other.

Added - Globe Pit Row is the boundary road on the East of the Census ED, so would be on  the colliery (east)  side of the block of streets I've listed.
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: pomp on Saturday 10 March 18 17:29 GMT (UK)
Reading the census description against the map, I'm thinking it might be that part that has Picture Theatre on one side of the street and Cross Street on the other.

Happen you’re right - looks to be the spot
Title: Re: Old map of Tredegar
Post by: ozlady on Sunday 11 March 18 22:13 GMT (UK)
There is an interesting interactive map of the town on www.tredegar.co.uk genealogy page.