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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: Marmalady on Monday 12 March 18 15:49 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone help with a date for this wedding group? And how old do you think the children are?
The older seated couple are my great-grandparents Edward & Margaret Wainwright.
My sister thinks it is the wedding of their eldest son Edward William Wainwright & Lillian Cooling which took place in Sept qtr 1916
I am not convinced of this because of the lack of military uniforms amongst the male guests and also my estimated ages of the children do not match the ages Edward & Margaret's grandchildren would have been in 1916
Edward died in 1917 so it must have been before then!
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I am not a dating expert Marmalady, I'm sure they'll be along soon.
However, I notice your gr.grandmother is wearing a very interesting belt and chatelaine.
The belt features a crown, possibly a St. Edwards crown. This crown was revived by George V
for his coronation in 1911. Maybe this is just co-incidental.
I am guessing the age of the children left to right as 9 months, and the other two little ones
2 and a half to 3. Possibly the child on the knee is a little younger than the child in the centre.
Jen.
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What a lovely family group. Edward and Margaret look so jolly and nice. :)
If it wasn't for the lack of military uniforms as you so rightly point out, I would say that 1916 might be about right, though that is just a guess.
I think there will be some clues in the hats and sleeves, but I will leave it to those with more knowledge to point out the dating clues. :)
I'm not too good at aging children but I think the little girls (so sweet!) look to be about 3 years old, and the baby, about 1.
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I think it could be a a couple of years or so later but not sure...Children could be 1, 3 & 4 years old.
Carol
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Superb photograph, I would say 1920's.
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I agree it is later than 1916. The following site is useful for dating fashions.
http://www.fashion-era.com/Weddings/1921_old_wedding_photos.htm
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It does have a look of a 1920-21 wedding dress.
Gadget
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When were the children born Marmalady? That would be a good indication of the date of the
photo.
Added: The bridesmaid's flowers contain daffodil type flowers, and gr.grandfather has one in his
buttonhole so you are looking for a spring wedding date. (if that is when daffodils flower in UK)
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As the daters agree that your photo is most likely early 1920's, several years after the
death of your gr.grandfather Edward Wainwright, is it possible that your gr.grandmother
remarried and the older gentleman in the photo is her second husband?
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Thank you for all your replies -- tho the consensus of it being a 1920's wedding is puzzling
Edward definitely died in 1917 and Margaret in 1921 without re-marrying.
Their children were:
1 Matilda married Sept 1908 -- the bride is not Matilda as we have other photos of her
2 Edward William married Sept qtr 1916
3 Arthur married Jun qtr 1915 -- groom is not Arthur who was a short man
4 Margaret Alice married Dec 1913 -- wedding is not a winter one
5 Harold married Dec 1921 -- (my grandfather) definitely not this one
Grandchildren born before Edwards death in 1917:
1 Matilda bn May 1909
2 Hubert bn June 1911
3 Alice bn Sept 1913
4 Clifford bn Dec 1914
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There are very few WW1 photos online. I'll check some of my books* but I recall that there weren't many in there either.
Are you certain that the older couple are Edward and Margaret?
* now checked but nothing that suggests anything earlier :-\
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Have to agree with the dates of around 1920. How sure are you that the older chap is Edward. It's an odd seating arrangement to have the parents of the bride or groom sitting apart like this.
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We have 3 studio photos of the elderly gentleman taken around the same age that my father identified as his grandfather Edward.
It is, of course, possible that this identification was wrong given that both his grandparents died before he was born and he was sorting through a suitcase of old un-named family photos whilst in the early stages of dementia.
But if it is not Edward, I am at a loss to know who he is!
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How old was Edward when he died in 1917? The gent in the photo looks to be in his 50s? "Margaret" looks (perhaps) older than "Edward". She appears to have completely white/grey hair. :-\
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I may have got it wrong but I thought the white haired older lady was on her own and the relative of the bride and the guy with the moustache was with the lady on his right and the family of the groom.
Carol
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Edward was born 4 July 1849, died 14 May 1917 so was 68 when he died
Margaret was born 9 Nov 1852, died 7 Oct 1921 so was 69 when she died
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I may have got it wrong but I thought the white haired older lady was on her own and the relative of the bride and the guy with the moustache was with the lady on his right and the family of the groom.
Carol
You might have something there Carol.
Marmalady, Well the moustached gent can't be Edward if he died in 1917 and the photo was taken in the 20s. I suppose if the photo was taken in 1920/1 the older lady could be Margaret, aged 68/9. She looks very hale and hearty though doesn't she? :) She is sitting alone so perhaps was a widow by that time?
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Marmalady, Well the moustached gent can't be Edward if he died in 1917 and the photo was taken in the 20s.
Which is why you have all thrown a spanner in the works!
We thought Edward was the one person we could definitely identify -- but it looks rather like my father mis-identified the photos we have of this gentleman
So now we haven't a clue who he is and even less clue as to who the bridal couple is!
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Edward was born 4 July 1849, died 14 May 1917 so was 68 when he died
Margaret was born 9 Nov 1852, died 7 Oct 1921 so was 69 when she died
Could it be Margaret's family?
Carol
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Both Edward & Margaret's parents were all long dead by this time (death dates ranging from 1854 - 1883) as were most of their brothers & sisters -- in fact out of 11 siblings on each side, only Edward's brother James would still have been alive when this photo was taken
There were some nephews & nieces on both sides, but I have not yet tracked all their marriages for consideration.
I have, however, found more photos of various family members for comparison -- I hope to have time to scan & post them this evening
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Here are some more photos of various members of the family for comparison purposes:
1 Studio photo of man in wedding group
2 Matilda Wainwright, his daughter
3 Possibly Edward William Wainwright
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1 Matilda & Hubert -- are these the children in the wedding photo? this photo was sent as a postcard to Edward & Margaret in Dec 1912
2 Matilda & Grandmother Margaret (is she the lady in the wedding photo?
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And finally, One of Matilda's family taken in early/mid 1920's
Matilda jnr & Hubert are on the left. Youngest child born April 1921
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I'm sure someone will be kind enough to put together some side by side images to make comparing easier, but from an initial first look, it seems to me that there are four different gents - the one in your original photo and three others - I'm not sure that any of them are the same chap.
The same with the elderly lady in your original photo and the lady with Matilda on her knee ... I think they might be different ladies. :-\
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The lady next to the groom, in the dark suit bears a strong resemblance to the photo of Matilda. I don't see the man you refer to as Edward in the male photos that you posted.
Carol
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Agree with Carol, the lady in the dark suit next to the groom does resemble Matilda.
I also think that the man on the extreme left of the wedding photo looks very much like the
photo you posted of possible Edward William Wainwright. This man also resembles the older
gent. in the wedding photo wearing the buttonhole.
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I studied the history of costume although many years ago. I think this might be just before the outbreak of WW1. Maybe 1913. Hence no military uniform. I don't think its as late as 1920s
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Brides dress is too short for 1913.
See these 1912 weddings:
http://www.fashion-era.com/Weddings/1912_old_wedding_photos_titanic.htm
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Thank you all for your thoughts on the people & dates -- it has given us much to think about!
As I am going into hospital tomorrow for a major operation, I will lay this aside for a while untill I can get back to family history
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Good luck with the op and I hope you have a speedy recovery :)
Carol