RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Essex => England => Essex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Olicana on Thursday 12 April 18 23:09 BST (UK)
-
Arthur Poulton married Rose ? in Q1 1888 Vol 4a P345. The entry is located between entries for Chelmsford St Mary the Virgin and Gt Waltham St Mary & St Lawrence. Is it possible for someone to look this marriage up and find Rose's surname please, and any other information there? Thank you.
-
Rose Hannah C Hawkes, according to FreeBMD.
www.freebmd.org.uk
-
Hi avm228 and thank you. May I ask you how you found the surname from FreeBMD? I found Arthur's marriage there, but couldn't see the bride's details.
-
Click on the page number (345 in this case) and you get to see everyone with that page reference.
-
D'oh! :-[ Thank you ;D
-
From the Pleshey Parish records: January 21 1888
Arthur Poulton 22 labourer lived in Pleshey, father James poulton
Rose Hannah Caroline Hawkes 21 lived in Pleshey father Samuel Hawkes (deceased)
Witnesses: William Wood and Lilly Elvina Wood
Arthur baptised Great Waltham to James and Harriet Poulton 4 Mar 1866. She was harriet Miller and they married 14 Oct 1854 great Waltham. He was 24, father was James. She was 18, father was Thomas. All labourers.
Can’t find a rose baptised in great or little Waltham, or Pleshey, but there is a Hannah baptised in little Waltham to Samuel and Mary Ann in 1866. Samuel married Mary Ann Feast in Pleshey on 16 April 1853. He was 22. She was 20. His residence at time of marriage Broomfield. Hers Pleshey. His father Jonathan. Hers was Thomas. All labourers except Thomas feast who was a butcher.
-
Thank you nannyj :)
-
Are you researching this line or did you just need her name. Didn’t want to go back further in case you didn’t need it.
-
Hi nannyj and thank you for your help. I was actually trying to find the maiden name of the Rose that married Arthur John Wright Poulton about 1886 in Chelmsford. This marriage was the only one I could find on FreeBMD for an Arthur Poulton and Rose in Chelmsford and the date fitted, but unfortunately it is the wrong marriage as Arthur's father was Emmanuel and I think Rose's middle name was Beatrice. The Arthur you found was the son of Emmanuel's brother James, so the information you found was still useful :)
-
Are you going by the 1911 census for Arthur and Rose?
It states married 25 years and only one child, surely that is Lily born circa 1887.
ref 1891 and 1901 census
The census has also been wrongly transcribed on ancestry, if you look at the image her name is Rose
Poulton, a lodger has the name Beatrice.
-
I found Arthur’s birth with Emmanuel. So is it his line or just his marriage you want?
-
What makes you think that Emmanuel’s son Arthur also married a Rose?
-
only one child, surely that is Lily born circa 1887.
ref 1891 and 1901 census
Birth reg as Lily Emily Hawks, Dec qtr 1886 Chelmsford.
-
Any idea what Parish that is avm228? I could look up the parents to see why surname is hawks.
-
(Edit) Important to note in 1901 Arthur and Rose POULTON live next door to one Mary Ann HAWKE who is 68 and has been deaf since she was 42. The child Lily is present with parents Arthur and Rose.
A later census , already mentioned, states Arthur has a spinal & hip disease which started when he was 13. years.
In 1881, when he is still with his parents, Mary and Emmanuel POULTON, Arthur is listed with the second initial W.
This does not quite fit with the name you are seeking Arthur John Wright POULSON
Rose and Arthur have lied about their number of years married in order to place Lily's birth inside a marriage.
Sue
-
Any idea what Parish that is avm228? I could look up the parents to see why surname is hawks.
Census says she was born in Pleshey. Hawk(e)s was Rose Hannah’s maiden name.
-
So we have:
1. Arthur Poulton mmn Miller, birth reg Mar qtr 1866 Chelmsford. Parents James and Harriet. Married Rose Hannah. Daughter Lily born before the marriage.
2. Arthur John W Poulton b ?? who died in NSW, Australia in 1945 naming parents as Emmanuel & Mary. This Arthur is 4 b Great Waltham, with parents in Stockwell in 1871.
-
Emanuel Poulton married Mary Sorrell, Dec qtr 1856 Chelmsford.
Their son Arthur may have been registered as Male Poulton, mmn Forrell [sic], Jun qtr 1866 Chelmsford.
-
Arthur John wright poulton baptised 3 Jun 1866 to Emmanuel and Mary at great Waltham.
-
Lily Emily Poulton baptised 16 jan 1887 Pleshey as poulton to rose Hawkes unmarried, but it does say poulton Hawkes in the parents surname section.
The Arthur poulton who then marries Hannah rose caroline Hawkes in jan 1888 in Pleshey, is therefore not the one who went to Australia, as his father was James.
-
There’s something on ancestry about his record on board ship and I think it’s says that he absconded whilst near Hobart or Melbourne in 1891.it says something about him owing money to people and the police should he be recaptured?
Gave his height as 5’ 4” and birth as 24th April 1866.
-
Very interesting, but perhaps you should wait until Olicana comes back on-line before spending more time on this subject. I see that he/she was on-line this lunch-time, so has presumably seen your responses. :-\
-
Hi and thank you all so much.
I started to answer your questions 3 times, and each time I tried to post, it said there had been new posts whilst I was writing with further information, so I had to change what I was writing. Then I was called away after I posted my last message, or so I thought - on returning just now, I see I only pressed "preview", not "post", so apologies for not replying sooner.
I was very excited by everything you found; it seems you have sorted everything out now :) You really have gone above and beyond. I am very grateful.
It is all very interesting. Do you think Arthur John Wright Poulton was a sailor and absconded or was he being transported to Australia?
Thanks again :)
-
These dates are too late for convict transportation to Australia, which was wound down from the 1840s and ended completely by 1868.
-
They were Royal Navy records.
-
Thanks again :)
-
Still haven’t answered your original question though? If both married a rose and the one you were looking forward ended up in Australia, we haven’t found his rose?
-
Interestingly a tree on Ancestry (that I can't see) has Arthur John Wright, wife Rose, dying in France.....
-
Just looked it up. He was also born in little Waltham, lived on powers farm, but his father is called Charles. He was almost 26 when he enlisted in 1916, so that would make his birth date 1890 ish. So not your Arthur.
It’s on their tree as being Arthur son of Emmanuel, but they obviously didn’t look at the actual age on enlistment as it couldn’t be him and the father is wrong. The mother is Elizabeth, as she is the one his effects are sent on to.
-
Thank you nannyj :) He might well be related. Little Waltham and Great Waltham seem to be bursting with Poultons in the 1800s! ::)
If Arthur John Wright Poulton was born in 1866, absconded from the Royal Navy in 1891 (aged abt 25) and died in NSW in 1945 (aged abt 79), I wonder if he left a wife behind in England or had one in Australia....
-
Hi Olicana.
I have located your John Arthur living in NSW.
He used the surname WRIGHT I believe.
This may be to conceal himself from a deserted wife and the law or from the Navy, or both.
Funeral Notice, Sydney Morning Herald August 5th 1945
POULTON (WRIGHT) The funeral of the late Arthur John Poulton (Wright) ex-Sudan, Egyptian , and South African Wars will leave Malloy Bros Parlours, 240 King Street Newtown this Friday Afternoon at 2 o’clock for the Methodist Cemetery Woronora. Home Papers please copy. …….
From the Cemetery Register
Arthur J. POULTON
Date of death: 02/08/1945
Date of Interment:
Type- Burial
Location- Primitive Methodist Monumental - Section Dd – 0019
There are several men named Arthur John WRIGHT registered to vote in the city area of Sydney up to 1945. One possible is….
1943
WRIGHT, Arthur John
9 Pemell Street, Newtown. Labourer
No others of the surname share that address.
Contacting the cemetery may reveal any others buried with him.
https://woronoramemorialpark.worldsecuresystems.com/contact-us?_ga=2.55406507.1202205893.1524003319-2147222114.1505456483
Sue
-
Hi Sue,
Thank you very much for finding out so much extra information :)
Arthur must have had quite an interesting life whilst his siblings stayed home in Great Waltham!
I have already emailed the cemetery and will let you know if I get a response.
-
You're welcome ;D
I would be very interested to hear any findings from the cemetery.
Sue
-
Me too!
-
Their automatic reply said they would try to answer within 2 working days, but they are 9 hours ahead, so might not hear until next week.
Will keep you posted and thanks again for all the hard work ;D
-
Hi,
Depending on your level of curiosity about the man, the purchase of an image of the death certificate could be a worthwhile step.
The cost is about $25 but the content is extensive.
Name
Date
Death place
Age
Occupation
Cause of death
Parents' names
Spouse names
Marriage details
Chns names
No of chn
Birthplace
https://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/research-and-family-history/search-your-family-history
Sue
-
Thanks for letting me know :)
-
Hi again. This is the reply from Woronora cemetery:
"The only details we have from 1945 for the Late Arthur J Poulton is his age (89 years) & date of death (2.8.1945). The owner of the grave is Miss May James from Petersham NSW".
It hasn't really helped. The age is incorrect (should be 79), but according to the Funeral Notice in the Sydney Morning Herald, the grave seems to belong to the right Arthur John Wright Poulton. No idea who Miss May James could be!
-
There are several men named Arthur John WRIGHT registered to vote in the city area of Sydney up to 1945. One possible is…. .
1943
WRIGHT, Arthur John
9 Pemell Street, Newtown. Labourer
Is there by any chance an Arthur John Wright or Poulton registered in John Street, Petersham? Possibly no. 74?