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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: bildeston on Wednesday 02 May 18 17:16 BST (UK)
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Horace Gordon Cox Born London 30 June 1910
My father left the UK to sail to Australia on 9 January 1926 at the age of 15. I can see no record of him sailing with a relative or friend and am trying to find out where he went and who he stayed with.
I am assuming that he was met by relations and a number of Cox’s emigrated to Australia at the end of the 19th century and the early part of the 20th century.
He landed in Melbourne and I am aware he spent some time at the Yanco experimental farm in NSW leaving there about April 1926 – before it became a training farm for delinquent boys!
Interestingly, Yanco is close to Wagga Wagga where I believe there is a large Cox cemetery.
I also believe he worked on one or several sheep farms and I have a wages slip from Young Bros & Co , Stock and Station Agents in Horsham Victoria. He was very keen on Prahran football club which makes me think, at one time, he worked fairly close to Melbourne.
It is possible that he was recorded in The Werriwa area of NSW in 1930.
He returned to the UK in November 1932.
Any information anyone can give me about his whereabouts during his time in Australia would be gratefully received and hey I might even find some new relatives.
My father died on 30th January 1989.
Andy Cox
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Hi Andy,
Did he arrive on the Otranto? If so his address on arrival is given as C/o the Immigration Dept Sydney
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m00/
I see the Otranto brought out 31 Dreadnought boys and 5 "Little Brothers". Could your father have been a part of one of these groups?
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article153737330
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article43908077 (the ship and the voyage)
Ros
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In 1926 they are advertising for Big Brothers for boys undergoing training at Wagga Experimental Farm
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article145270251
Ros
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An article about the Big Brother movement - helping unemployed British boys by training them in farm work in Australia
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article223725945
Ros
adding : http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article203664785
....The purpose is to stimulate boy migration by means of an organisation
which will take the place of the absent relatives and friends, and accept a moral
responsibility to make of each boy arriving under the scheme a good Australian citizen.
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An article about the Dreadnought Scheme http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article168717006
and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheyville_National_Park#The_Dreadnought_Scheme
Boys from England were also brought out for training and employment and spent the first 3 months at a state government farm for agricultural training.
Ros
adding : Boys from 15-19 years and after the 3 months training are guaranteed employment
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article210057370
Boys are carefully selected and are of an excellent type http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article195782738
adding : some interesting insights into life as a Dreadnought boy - complaints from Dreadnought boys at Grafton Experimental Farm (a different farm but possibly similar conditions)
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article195632844
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Some contacts for info on the Dreadnought Boys
http://thedreadnoughtboys.blogspot.com.au/search/label/Dreadnought%20Association
https://www.findandconnect.gov.au/guide/nsw/NE01250
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/child-youth-migration-the-20th-century
Ros
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Here is a live link that should give you many hours of reading. A 15 year old lad would not have needed to be accompanied by a family member on the voyage to Australia in the 1920s, nor would he have needed to have relatives in Australia to receive him on arrival.
http://guides.naa.gov.au/good-british-stock/index.aspx
Between 1901 and 1983, thousands of unaccompanied young people, mainly from Britain, came or were sent to Australia as permanent settlers. For some it was a fresh start and relief from grinding poverty; for others it was a heartbreaking wrench from family. Records in the collection of the National Archives of Australia are a rich source of information about the processes of government decision-making and administrative practice on child migration, as well as the service organisations and churches that sponsored the children and provided for their education, placement and after-care.
JM
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Re Werriwa and 1930.
Werriwa is the name given to one of the Federal Electorates for the House of Representatives. You don't need to include it in a person's street address.
There are quite a number of males named Horace Cox to be found on the various electoral rolls uploaded to Ancestry including one in the NSW town of Mittagong, shown as a lineman (so unlikely to be trained for farming - linemen usually involved in installing the lines for carrying electricity or telephonic and/or telegraph signals, etc .) That chap's electoral roll entry does NOT include any middle name, although many others in that township do.
JM
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There is a Horace G COX, aged 23, a Farm Labourer, embarking Melbourne, proposed address in the UK as 8 Clover Rd, Forest Gate, on the Esperance Bay, heading for Southampton December 1932. Is this your chap?
JM
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I can check some of the relevant indexes when next I am at NSW State Archives
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/child-youth-migration-the-20th-century
Unidentified card index to immigrants [11/23095-23100]
Appears to index immigrants under the age of 21 who probably arrived under the Dreadnought Trust Fund.
1921-1947
Card index to migrant passport clearances issued [11/23094]
Appears to be an index to immigrants brought out under the Dreadnought Trust Fund who returned to England. The index is incomplete (Abbott-Myson only).
1924-1940
Card index to immigrants under youth group schemes [11/23093.2]
Indexes youths assisted under the Big Brother Movement, The Dreadnought Trust Fund, the Salvation Army and the Church of England (Council of Empire Settlement).
c.1930-1946 (possibly too recent)
Card index to assisted immigrants [11/23045-23054, 11/23056-23065] 1919-1926
Card index to assisted immigrants [6/994-1000, 11/23066-23074] 1925-1939
Ros
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Thank you for your interest. He travelled out on the Oronsay on 9 January 1926. As far as I am aware he went freely and was supplied with a number of contact points for introductions. Even though he was at Yanco my understanding is that this was before it became a corrective establishment.
Regards
Andy Cox
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Yes before it became a corrective establishment, Yanco was used as a training place (as well as other state government farms) for boys from Britain who were selected to be given agricultural training for 3 months and then employment elsewhere.
Apparently the Otranto was substituted for the steamer Oronsay in Jan 1926. http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article43898837
The Dreadnought scheme (I know it sounds like boys who had problems at first glance for some reason but was NOT) was in fact a prestigious scheme to bring the better class of boys to Australia to satisfy a demand for more agricultural workers so they were carefully selected and given training at state government farms before being guaranteed employment elsewhere.
Ros
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Yanco Boys Child Welfare - Reform home did not start until July 1928, so Horace would have been 'too old' for any placement there, IF he had violated any NSW law.
JM
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Yes indeed (as was stated previously). But it was used as a training place for selected boys from Britain (as well as other state government farms).
Ros
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Yanco Boys Child Welfare - Reform home did not start until July 1928, so Horace would have been 'too old' for any placement there, IF he had violated any NSW law.
JM
Yes indeed (as was stated previously). But it was used as a training place for selected boys from Britain (as well as other state government farms).
Ros
I have not seen any previous reference to the date I noted. Please note I am well aware of Yanco history and your own earlier post had already noted the selection process for Dreadnought scheme traineeships.
JM
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Exactly :) This was prior to being used as a correction establishment.
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Exactly :) This was prior to being used as a correction establishment.
Ros, I am quite sure that we all know that chronologically 1926 occurred before 1928. I think you are again hectoring, perhaps to make out that I have not realised this.
From Andy’s opening post we all learn that Andy has Horace Gordon Cox as born London 30 June 1910, off to Australia 9 January 1926, and ‘he spent some time at the Yanco experimental farm in NSW leaving there about April 1926 – before it became a training farm for delinquent boys.’
Your reply (#11) noted that before it was a training farm for delinquent boys, it had been a training farm for selected boys from Britain to receive 3 months farm training etc. and you mentioned the Dreadnought scheme was a prestigious scheme.
I then (#12) I posted the date that Yanco became a Child Welfare farm (July 1928) to confirm Andy’s info and to note that Horace would have been too old to have been at Yanco Boys Reform home. (July 1928 minus June 1910 = 18 years, 0 months) May I further explain, so even IF Horace had violated any NSW law, he was, at 18 years, too old to be sentenced under any NSW Child Welfare Law. My reply #12 does NOT contradict any information you had posted.
You then (#13) confirmed my post #12 and noted ‘as was stated previously’ HOWEVER, Ros, I cannot find any post on this thread that gives the date (July 1928) or notes that by July 1928 that Horace was 18 years of age and therefore outside of the protection of the Child Welfare Act of 1923 (with amendments this Act operated until 1939). Child is defined there as under eighteen years of age for Part IX. https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/acts/1923-21.pdf
You also mentioned at #13 ‘But it was used as a training place for selected boys from Britain….’ And so I replied at #14 that ‘I am well aware of Yanco history and I further noted that you had already noted the selection process for Dreadnought scheme traineeships.
But you still persist and at #15 you continue to press a point as though I have somehow missed the obvious that prior to Yanco being a correction establishment it had been a training farm for a selection of British boys who came for three months farm training, with the expectation of further employment because of the farming skills they would have received from that training, and that such training was NOT provided as a some form of punishment to reform British Boys.
None of my posts on this thread give any person any reason to consider that I did not know that Yanco had been a training farm for lads from Britain prior to it becoming a Boys Reform home in 1928.
Ros, Please do re-read the OP’s opening post. Clearly he had already appreciated that when his father was at Yanco (ie as a 15 year old, from arrival in Australia until April 1926, ) it was not an institution operated under any NSW Child Welfare scheme designed to reform delinquent NSW boys.
Here is a link to NSW State Archives re Yanco https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/agency/570 where the opening remarks under Administrative History include In 1928 the Yanco Experimental Farm, controlled by the Department of Agriculture was accepted by the Child Welfare Department as a site for a Training Farm for delinquent boys. On 4 July 1928, in pursuance of provisions of the Child Welfare Act (No. 21, 1923) the farm was proclaimed "an Industrial School for reception, detention and maintenance of children". The farm was known as "Riverina Welfare Farm for Boys, Yanco".
JM
ADD, and of course, before 1928, it was operated by the NSW Dept of Agriculture, and it was not just for boys sent out from Britain.
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Exactly :) This was prior to being used as a correction establishment.
I was agreeing with you JM.
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Here is a pdf on Yanco Experiment Farm.
http://www.andicom.com.au/content/YAI-calendar.pdf
JM
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Here is an interesting article in 2011 on Dreadnought Boys https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/history/australias-lost-boys-2365531.html
Ros
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Thank you those who have responded with useful information. I have part of a letter signed by Reggis 2nd name possibly Partridge on behalf of the Government Experimental Farm dated 25 April 1926. I quote 'I wish you the best of everything and I trust that we will ever remain the best of friends'
Presumably given the short period of time from his arrival in Australia he must have had an introduction to here. I'd love to know where he went from here. He was an unaccompanied 15 year old!!!
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There is a Horace G COX, aged 23, a Farm Labourer, embarking Melbourne, proposed address in the UK as 8 Clover Rd, Forest Gate, on the Esperance Bay, heading for Southampton December 1932. Is this your chap?
JM
That is a very similar address to the one given when he was departing from the UK in 1926 ....
Anyways, here's some thoughts for Andy to consider if he wants to follow up.
On RChat’s NSW Resources Board are many live links, including the one for Sands Directories. These are freely available online via the City of Sydney’s Archives. http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/search-our-collections/sands-directory
In the 1920s Yanco was not part of the Wagga Pastoral District. Yanco was part of the Narrandera Pastoral District, and Yanco’s nearest town is still Leeton.
https://www.cartoscope.com.au/maps/riverina/riverinareg.pdf
If you were to consider following up on the Cox or Partridge surnames in the 1920s, then Sands would likely be the best online option. I would suggest that Reggis may be a slight mis-read … perhaps Reggie may be a better option? Reggie would likely be a contraction of Reginald.
There was a NSW State election in October 1927, and so the NSW State Library would have the electoral rolls covering all the electoral divisions across the entire state. The electorate covering the polling place of Yanco at that time would be The Murrumbidgee.
http://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/research-and-collections/ask-librarian
Here is the live link to RChat’s NSW Resources board
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369703.0
Here is the live link to RChat’s Victoria Resources board
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369963.0
There is actually nothing unusual in a 15 year old lad being unaccompanied (in the sense, 'without immediate family member to supervise him') in the 1920s in rural NSW or Victoria. There would likely be many 15 year old lads looking for work, afterall, unless they intended to go on to University, they would have left school by 15 years of age, with or without any formal education certificates. Yanco Irrigation Experiment Farm for three months training Feb-April 1926 would have given Horace quality training, and likely it had all been pre-arranged prior to departing the UK if under the Dreadnought schemes.
Earlier I posted information for the December 1932 arrival in the UK and I have quoted that reply at the top of this post.
:) To me, it is the same address as found on the outward bound journey in January 1926 under “Oransay” Mr H.G. COX, 8 Clove Road, Forest Gate E7. Occupation “None” age 15, on ticket no. 55.
:) If you look at others with similar ticket numbers you will notice many are teenagers, and are not travelling with anyone with a matching surname. For example
ticket no. 3 is for a 14 year old Mr E.L. HOLMES, a schoolboy from the Police Orphanage
ticket no. 30 is for a 15 year old Mr R.W.H. Dearing, from Plymouth, again occupation “None”
ticket no. 45 is for a 15 year old Mr. A.S. COX, 217 Westbourne Grove W.11 - Have you searched for a family connection to that Mr Cox?
JM
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Slightly off topic ....
There may be a connection to Horace and Mr A.S. Cox, however looking at the houses at those addresses I think that the Westbourne Grove address indicates someone of a higher class. Both are very nice. More research required to find out for sure. :)
It is possible though that these were address/es of employers or other contacts rather than their own family homes. :)
added:
I believe the road may be Clova rather than Clove or Clover as there is a Clova Road in Forest Gate. I can't see a number 8 though, but renumbering may have occurred.
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Dear Andy,
I suggested that your father was possibly a Dreadnought boy - remember this is a selective scheme for traineeships and not punitive or corrective in any way - and that he sailed on the Otranto (which replaced the Oronsay at the last minute).
Here we have the ship's log for the Otranto in 1926 which includes a list of the Dreadnought Trainees. Among the boys listed as Dreadnought Trainees is Horace G COX (and also Allan E COX)
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=466350
Ros
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The outward bound passenger list for the Oransay includes given names for the ticket holders.
At page 41 of 42 on the naa.gov.au digitised list under the heading Dreadnought trainees there's just one with a given name of Reginald. NOTE page 22 of 42 confirms the Oransay passenger list is to be used.
So back to the Oransay outward passenger list ... Ticket no. 43, Mr R.J. HOCKRIDGE, aged 18. (two entries above Mr A J Cox)
I feel sure that "Reggis Partridge" in longhand could well be a slight mis-read for Reginald J HOCKRIDGE. :)
JM
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To find out where he went to after the farm training :
(1) I hope to find some records at NSW archives about the Dreadnought boys (among those indexes which I listed before) although they sound to be rather patchy.
(2) The NAA has lists and other documents about the Dreadnought scheme
http://guides.naa.gov.au/good-british-stock/chapter3/dreadnought%20.aspx
You could use the Ask an Archivist service to request information about your father http://www.naa.gov.au/about-us/contact/
Ros
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Here is a live link that should give you many hours of reading. A 15 year old lad would not have needed to be accompanied by a family member on the voyage to Australia in the 1920s, nor would he have needed to have relatives in Australia to receive him on arrival.
http://guides.naa.gov.au/good-british-stock/index.aspx
Between 1901 and 1983, thousands of unaccompanied young people, mainly from Britain, came or were sent to Australia as permanent settlers. For some it was a fresh start and relief from grinding poverty; for others it was a heartbreaking wrench from family. Records in the collection of the National Archives of Australia are a rich source of information about the processes of government decision-making and administrative practice on child migration, as well as the service organisations and churches that sponsored the children and provided for their education, placement and after-care.
JM
.......
(2) The NAA has lists and other documents about the Dreadnought scheme
http://guides.naa.gov.au/good-british-stock/chapter3/dreadnought%20.aspx
.....
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WWII nominal roll info :
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=149699
The service records held at the National Archives of Australia for that chap have not yet been uploaded to their website. They have not yet been examined, so are not yet on open access. DoB for that chap is 8 July 1907.
JM
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Sydney Morning Herald
28 April 1990
Reginald John HOCKRIDGE died 27 April 1990, aged 82
http://www.ryersonindex.org/
JM
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Marriage in 1929 in NSW
I wonder if Mr Cox was one of the official witnesses
# 3863/1929
Reginald J HOCKRIDGE and Dorothy NAPPER registered Waverley district.
An official transcription will have all the info, but NOT the actual autograph signatures which should be on the 1929 image.
Dorothy died 17 August 1999, aged 92, late of Riverwood. Daily Tele 19 Aug 1999.
JM
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Hi Andy,
From card index for Horace G COX ex S.S. Otranto
Yanco
On leaving the training farm :
16/6/1926 A. Pedley, Box 45, Griffith
21/5/1927 Letter returned unclaimed
11/6/1927 J. McGilvray, Pineholme, Brucedale, via Wagga
1/8/1927 c/o P.O. Wagga
Ros
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A snippet about J.A. McGilvray of Pineholme winning a Wagga agricultural prize in 1925 - 50 acres of
wheat for hay
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article102324716
A family notice for Albert PEDLEY of Griffith losing his daughter http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article155827560 in 1922. A possibility ...
A farm in Mirool transferred to Albert PEDLEY in 1916 shows an Albert PEDLEY was a farmer near Yanco earlier and possibly kept contacts http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article156529637
Not much so far ...
adding : 1930 Electoral Roll
Albert PEDLEY, Farm 465, Griffith, farmer
1930 Electoral Roll Wagga Wagga
James McGilvray, 124 Peter St, farmer
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Thank you for the Australia research - this has been really helpful. Disappointed that he did not appear to have any relatives to go to in Australia. There goes another holiday opportunity!
Am now pursuing the Hockridge line in this country through a number of trees to see if they kept in touch.
Andy
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adding : 1930 Electoral Roll
Albert PEDLEY, Farm 465, Griffith, farmer
1930 Electoral Roll Wagga Wagga
James McGilvray, 124 Peter St, farmer
An obit for this James McGilvray of Peter St, Wagga Wagga who died in 1937. It says he retired from his farm in 1925 but he does have a son James Martin McGilvray
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article102696799
Ros
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Another source for information about your father and his time in Australia is The State Library of NSW http://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/
They have some information which is closed to the public for 100 years but if you use the "Ask a librarian service" and include a copy of your birth certificate they will be happy to provide you with the information
http://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/research-and-collections/ask-librarian
Ros
adding : I have pm'd you a contact/reference number for this enquiry
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Another source for information about your father and his time in Australia is The State Library of NSW http://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/
They have some information which is closed to the public for 100 years but if you use the "Ask a librarian service" and include a copy of your birth certificate they will be happy to provide you with the information
http://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/research-and-collections/ask-librarian
Ros
Fascinating ... a NSW BDM certified copy of a birth certificate is certainly a fundamental document for proof of identity purposes, as it is a very tightly restricted access document under the 100 year rule. However, a UK GRO certified copy of a birth certificate surely is not recognised as proof of identity for access to records held at NSW State Library under the 100 year rule... I understand that UK certificates carry a warning that they are not evidence of identity. I hope bildeston will be able obtain access to the restricted documents for his late father, perhaps by offering to supply copy of the certificate for his father's death may be sensible.
I have had experience at trying to access closed documents held by the Mitchell Library (part of the NSW State Library) and it was not an easy task, but it can be very worthwhile once access is made available. I also have contributed to family papers held by the Mitchell, and I support the restrictions imposed by the original contributor.
ADD I can confirm that the UK GRO certified copies of birth certificates can be ordered online by any member of the general public, including people residing outside of the UK. You do not need to be related to the person of interest named on the birth certificate.
https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp
My elderly relatives are fascinated too ... and are looking forward to hearing about the success or otherwise of the NSW State Library's '100 year' rule.
JM
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I think it is more likely that Andy has an original birth certificate, which is proof of identity, rather than a recent GRO replacement. (but none of our business)
A call to the Library and the duty Librarian confirmed that an English birth certificate is fine as the directive (for Andy's case) says birth certificate without any qualification or restriction.
However I have also added a written query under our ref-tracker question so you should receive written confirmation and/or clarification Andy. I'm just leaving it up to you to follow through with this overall query about your father's time in Australia Andy (but I'm happy to help if you need me :) ).
The library staff are extremely helpful. You've probably seen that they also suggested several books which you may find interesting.
Ros