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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: iolaus on Wednesday 09 May 18 10:02 BST (UK)

Title: Lilian Pugsley's death - help please
Post by: iolaus on Wednesday 09 May 18 10:02 BST (UK)
I'm trying to find a death record for a relative

Lilian Pugsley was born 3am on 30th Aug 1905 at 8 Dinas Road, Dinas
Her mother was Sarah Ann Gillard, father Thomas Pugsley (who had died on 5th Apr 1905) - the 5th of 6 child (Edith Mary was born 15 minutes later)

Sarah goes on to marry Evan Coxley in 1910

1911 census
Sarah and Evan are in Abercynon with Thomas (14) and Charles (8)
Benjamin (10) and Mary (5) are with their maternal grandparents in Dinas

The other daughter (Lily) born 1898 was buried in Trealaw cemetary in 1899 when she died at 11months old

I've tried looking on the 1939 census and can't find Lilian, noone remembers Edith Mary ever mentioning a twin sister - so everything points to her having died between 1905 and 1911

Can I find her though?  Checked with Pugsley, Coxsley and Gillard as the surnames

Please say someone else is better than I am
Title: Re: Lilian Pugsley's death - help please
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 09 May 18 12:22 BST (UK)
Aren't Lilian and Lily the same person?
Lily is a diminutive form of Lilian ;D
Title: Re: Lilian Pugsley's death - help please
Post by: Jomot on Wednesday 09 May 18 12:58 BST (UK)
A possible:

PUGHSLEY, LEAH   aged 1     
GRO Reference: 1906  S Quarter in PONTYPRIDD  Volume 11A  Page 264

ADDED: Or possibly not as a Leah Louise Pughsley was born 1905 Pontypridd  :-[
Title: Re: Lilian Pugsley's death - help please
Post by: Jomot on Wednesday 09 May 18 13:12 BST (UK)
Lilian Pugsley was born 3am on 30th Aug 1905 at 8 Dinas Road, Dinas
Her mother was Sarah Ann Gillard, father Thomas Pugsley (who had died on 5th Apr 1905)

Perhaps Lilian didn't die but was adopted out, given that Sarah Ann was a widow with 5 other children to support?
Title: Re: Lilian Pugsley's death - help please
Post by: iolaus on Wednesday 09 May 18 20:45 BST (UK)
KGarrad
Lily died 6 years before Lilian was born - so definately not the same person (though wouldn't be surprised if Lilian wasn't named after Lily)

Jomot was getting hopeful with that one there, but as you said probably not

I suppose it is possible that Lilian was adopted out - but I'd imagine if that was the case then her twin would have been too
Title: Re: Lilian Pugsley's death - help please
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Wednesday 09 May 18 21:36 BST (UK)
So - there's a Lilian Snook with the correct date of birth in Pontypridd area on the 1939 register. It appears her maiden name is Matthews. Have found her on 1911(born Dinas!) with a sister who has mmn Gordon. Can't find a Lillian Matthews with mmn Gordon, or any other mmn b Pontypridd, apart from one born and died 1904.

Can't find an appropriate Gordon/Matthews marriage either.

Maybe she was adopted out as widowed mother couldn't cope with twins

Title: Re: Lilian Pugsley's death - help please
Post by: Jomot on Wednesday 09 May 18 22:19 BST (UK)
I suppose it is possible that Lilian was adopted out - but I'd imagine if that was the case then her twin would have been too

I would have thought it would have been hard to give up one, never mind two...all very 'Blood Brothers'.    Given the lack of a death record I think it's a possibility.  Mabel's find is certainly interesting.
Title: Re: Lilian Pugsley's death - help please
Post by: iolaus on Wednesday 09 May 18 22:20 BST (UK)
OOH! interesting
Title: Re: Lilian Pugsley's death - help please
Post by: iolaus on Wednesday 09 May 18 22:23 BST (UK)
And the Matthews family live in Cwm Cottages, Cilfynydd - I'm sure another family member lived in Cwm Cottages

ETA probably just coincidence - the family members who lived at 1 Cwm Cottages at the same time were the Coopers - Mary Ann's granddaughter marries Edith Mary's Pugsley's son
Title: Re: Lilian Pugsley's death - help please
Post by: iolaus on Wednesday 09 May 18 22:44 BST (UK)
I think it's John Matthews and Fanny Godwin (rather than Gorden) who married in 1903 - they live a few doors apart in Mary Street, Cilfynydd in the 1901 census and birth places match with the 1911 Cwm Cottages parents

Can't find any Matthews births though to fit - so maybe they did adopt 'my' Lilian
Title: Re: Lilian Pugsley's death - help please
Post by: Jomot on Wednesday 09 May 18 23:10 BST (UK)
I was puzzled by the marriage being John, but looking at the image of the index it looks like there's been an alteration from John to George.
Title: Re: Lilian Pugsley's death - help please
Post by: iolaus on Friday 10 August 18 18:36 BST (UK)
Just to update everyone

I sent a message to someone on ancestry who had Lilian Matthews born 1905 on their family tree, askign if they knew if there was a possibility that she was 'mine' or if they knew if she had been adopted etc

Got this reply back today

Hi there sorry for the late reply didnt see the message on my feed ive just spoken to my mother and can confirm lillian was adopted and yes she was one of twins her sister was known to my grandfather as mary so i think with 99.9 percent this is the lillian your looking for my mam knew her obviously as aunty lil and was well loved in the family


Well fathomed out Mabel Bagshawe,

Puzzle solved