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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: dorothyl on Thursday 17 May 18 11:56 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone.
I am in need of some help again and hopefully there's someone who can help me.
It's a bit tricky for me this as I'm completely stuck. What I'm trying to find out is family members. All I have is the names and date of birth of each one. But I really don't know if there are siblings.
The 1st one is Minnie Johnson she married Richard edgeley.
Minnies birthday is 23rd of may 1901. And there Bertram Johnson .his birthday is 2nd of August 1892.
He was born in Hyde his parents are George Johnson and Mary Johnson mary Johnsons maiden name was Hoffman.
Please can anyone help me with this? I am completely stuck. I don't know where else to look I've even tried the electoral roll & electoral register. Yesterday when I was in manchester.
If there's anything anyone can help me with I would really appreciate it.
As I've mentioned I've tried. But I'm now stuck. I can't even find a birth certificate for Minnie Johnson.
Thank you again for your help I really do appreciate everyone's help.
Thank you all again.
Dorothy
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Hi Dorothy
I looked at the 1901 and 1911 censuses.
Bertram is with his parents in 1901 but just his father in 1911 as his mother had just died in 1910.
I can't see Minnie with them.
There is a birth in 1901 of Minnie Johnson with a mothers maiden name of Jones in Newcastle under Lyme which is where the family are in 1939 with Eveline Jones later Owens and Patricia.
Why do you think Minnie is Bertram's sister?
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Do you have the marriage certificate for Richard Edgeley and Minnie Johnson?
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Hello,
There is a marriage Newcastle under Lyme September quarter 1927 volume 6b Page 103
Richard Edgeley and Minnie Johnson
Heywood
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Bertram's birth registration in 1892 gives his mother's maiden name as Heffernan.
As dawnsh says, Minnie's birth registration in 1901 gives her mother's name as Jones.
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There is a Minnie Johnson b 1900 December quarter Ashton under Lyne registration district but Hyde area. She has a mother Braddock and can be found in 1901 3281/27/8 with parents Frank and Florence.
I don’t think there is a connection to Bertram’s family.
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Marriage found on FreeBMD
George James JOHNSON, same page as Mary HEFFERNAN - Dec qtr 1872 Hunslet
Possible siblings of Bertram JOHNSON mmn HEFFERNAN found on GRO:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp
Thomas George - Mar qtr 1873 Hunslet
Edward - Mar qtr 1877 Stockport
Ann - Dec qtr 1878 Stockport
(female) - Dec qtr 1880 Stockport
Charles - Dec qtr 1885 Stockport
Harry - Dec qtr 1887 Stockport
Leonard - Mar qtr 1890 Stockport
Bertram - Sep qtr 1892 Stockport
All the best
Philip
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There is a birth in 1901 of Minnie Johnson with a mothers maiden name of Jones in Newcastle under Lyme which is where the family are in 1939 with Eveline Jones later Owens and Patricia.
Possible siblings of Minnie JOHNSON mmn JONES found on GRO:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp
Alfred - Mar qtr 1897 Newcastle Under Lyme
Arthur - Mar qtr 1899 Newcastle Under Lyme
Minnie - Sep qtr 1901 Newcastle Under Lyme
Wilmot - Mar qtr 1907 Newcastle Under Lyme
I have only checked Newcastle Under Lyme as there are too many possibles otherwise.
All the best
Philip
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Great finds philipsearching!
Minnie appears to have named one of her children the same as the very unusual 1907 W.
We are not permitted to do 1911 census lookups but Wilmot Johnson should be easy for dorothyl to find herself.
PB
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Minnie's parents seem to be Caleb and Emma.
Jennifer
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Dorothy,
Are you looking for a Minnie Johnson from Hyde or the one who married Richard Edgeley?
Heywood
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From info in the original post, I think dorothyl is looking for the Minnie who married Richard Edgeley. She would need to obtain their marriage certificate to ascertain if the father's name matches these particular findings.
PB
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That’s what I thought PB especially as there is a date of birth but as there is a Minnie Johnson of a similar age in Hyde, i just wondered.
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Marriage at St John, Alsager's Bank - 1896 - Caleb Johnson and Emma Jones.
There are two Caleb Johnson birth registrations March quarter 1871 - mmn either Durber or Sproston confirmed by census results. The other Caleb married Alice Titterton in 1897 - Register Office.
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Hi everyone.
The Minnie I'm trying to find out about is the one who married Richard edgeley. They had 2 son's called Wilmot and Henry. The address at the time was 1.council houses, Newcastle upon Lyme. R.D. Staffordshire. England.
Edgeley household. (6 people )
The address is on the 1939 Register. And gives 4 names.
Patricia owens ( Jones ) Richard Edgeley 17th Jan 1882. Married Minnie edgeley 23rd may 1901.
Eveline owens (Jones )
On both Minnie edgeley and eveline Jones it says unpaid domestic duties.
And the other 2 names are not listed. The son's of Richard and Minnie edgeley. It says sorry this record is officially closed.
Patricia and eveline are my mum and my gran.
I got this information on the 29th of march from the library.
And from what I've been told. Bertram Johnson had married twice. He had married annie shulman who was originally married to david Joseph shulman. When he passed away Annie married Bertram Johnson. Then when Annie passed away Bertram Johnson married Phyllis Miles.
Bertram Johnson was born what looks like Shepley street Hyde number 24. On the 2nd of August 1892.
His mothers name is Mary Johnson formally Hoffman from what it says on the top of the certificate.
Registration District. Stockport. Sub district Hyde. In the county of Chester.
So I was wondering if Minnie edgeley was born Minnie Johnson and was she the sister of Bertram Johnson.
I'm not sure but I think Minnie Johnson married Richard edgeley 1927 in Newcastle upon Lyme. I'm not quite sure. I might be wrong.
I hope I can find out if she is the sister of Bertram Johnson.
Thank you again for your help everyone. I can't do this without help.
Thank you again
Dorothy
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Having looked into this a bit more, I can't see any connection between Bertram Johnson and Minnie Johnson.
Bertram is the son of George James Johnson, born Norwich and married Mary Heffernan. His parents are Thomas Johnson and Harriott Gurney, married 1838 in Norwich.
Minnie is the daughter of Caleb Johnson and Emma Jones. Caleb's parents are Abel Johnson and Sarah Spros(t)on, married 1865. OR Daniel Johnson and Mary Ann Durber, married 1865.
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Thank you bumbleb.
What does the word celb mean in the names. I know it sounds daft asking. But some words I've never heard of before. Or even names.
Thank you again for helping me with this. I really do appreciate everyone's help. Thank you all again.
Dorothy
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Minnie's father was called Caleb, it's a biblical name.
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I cannot see anything in any of the documents to suggest that Bertram and Minnie are in any way related to each other. Their families are from different parts of the country, and going back through the census returns, there is absolutely nothing to connect them, other than the surname Johnson :)
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Hi everyone.
Does anyone know when Bertram Johnson passed away?
I can't find it anywhere. I'm going round in circles again. I have also Googled the name caleb.
Here is what I found out. Which I think is strange.
From the word "dog" in Hebrew, a symbol of devotion to God. In the Bible, Caleb leaves Egypt with Moses and is one of only two followers to make it to the promised land.
Thank you all again.
Dorothy
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This is most probably the death entry you are looking for
Sept 1964
JOHNSON, BERTRAM, aged 71, HYDE 10A 256
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There's an entry in the probate calendar
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I think you already have a copy of Bertram's death certificate:
23 July 1964 at 9 Higher Henry Street, Hyde.
Age 71
Occupation Boiler Fireman (retired).
Cause of death: Diffuse Diopathic Fibrosis (Hamman-Rich Syndrome)
Informant: P Johnson, widow of deceased present at the death
However, I can't see a location for his burial/cremation from Tameside Council website.