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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: rkive82 on Monday 21 May 18 17:56 BST (UK)
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Caroline Bartlett was born about 1820 in Hastings, Sussex the daughter of William Henry Bartlett and Caroline (maiden name unknown).
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Caroline (the daughter) married Rev. John Hobart Caunter on 25th July 1845 in Pancras with her father listed. Rev. John died in November 1851 in London.
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Caroline, now widowed, married a Charles Edwin Bennett on 26th December 1861 in St Pancras Camden. Her father was William Henry Bartlett and his father was John Bennett.
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I can find nothing definite about Charles Edwin Bennett before or after the marriage. What happened to him - and to Caroline - and to Hobart Caunter, the son of Caroline and Rev. John Hobart Caunter?
Thanks
Richard
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In 1861 Hobart is in Whitstable transcribed as Robert
RG09/524 f30 p27
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Possible death? -
Hobart Caunter
Death Date - 1937
Death Place - New South Wales
Father's name - John Hobart
Mother's name - Caroline
Registration Place - Rockdale, New South Wales
JJ
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I saw the Australian connection on some trees on Anc***** and at least one had Caroline Caunter dying in NSW in 1902, but they don't seem to have noticed the 1861 marriage to Chas. Edwin Bennett.
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Some also have Hobart Caunter as Robert Hobart Caunter which may or may not be true.
Richard
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Widowed Caroline is with her parents in 1861, there is an unmarried Charles Bennett an engineer age 20 lodging with them - can post details if you haven't got them
Jan
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Marriage -
The Sydney Morning Herald Aug 15 1874
Caunter - Walker. Aug 1 at Newton Robert Hobart, son of the late J H Caunter of Sussex and Marylebone, London to Alice youngest daughter of Mr John Walker of Blacktown
JJ
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Thanks.
I saw the 20 year old Charles Bennett the lodger. He is much younger than Caroline, but is he Charles Edwin Bennett son of John Bennett?
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So Hobart Caunter born 1847 is Robert Hobart Caunter and this NSW connection is correct. Thank you.
Richard
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Weird the marriage 26th April 1862 Parish Chapel St Pancras of a Caroline Caunter?
Keyboard86
;D Ignore Bennett not Bartlett as father!
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Hmmmm. Could that be Caroline Caunter the mother?
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(I have to take a break for 90 mins. I'll be back).
Richard
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Weird the marriage 26th April 1862 Parish Chapel St Pancras of a Caroline Caunter?
Keyboard86
Very intriguing. Father William Henry Bartlett, Caroline's signature looks the same as on the 1861 cert. The groom is Edwin Hossock engineer, father John Hossock Engineer - is this a second marriage to the same fellow under a different surname?
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If it was, I think this Edwin Hossack was b c 1841 son of John occ Engineer etc in Manchester 1851? Census ref HO107/2227/0/0
Keyboard86
But I agree, the signature of Caroline Caunter looks very similar in 1861 & 1862?
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There's an article in the New South Wales, Australia, Police Gazettes 12 Feb 1868. Where a warrant was issued for the arrest of Edwin Hossack charged with about to leave the Colony with intent to defeat a Magisterial order for the support of his wife Caroline Hossack. He is about 30 years old (includes more details of his build etc.) An engineer.
Perhaps Caroline moved to Australia to be with her son Hobart.
JJ
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Perhaps Caroline reverted back to the name Caunter as there is this death -
Caroline Caunter
Death Date - 1902
Father's name - William
Mother's name - Caroline
Registration Place - Newtown, New South Wales
JJ
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Burial -
Caroline Caunter
Age 81
Death or burial date - 2 Feb 1902
Rookwood General Cemeteries Reserve Trust
Rookwood, Cumberland Council, New South Wales, Australia
PLOT Zone B Section 4 Grave 1822
JJ
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So ... The 1902 death/burial does appear in a tree or two on Ances*** I shall take another look and see if there any more supporting documents.
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The C E Bennett and Hossock/Hossack connection remains a mystery.
Thanks everybody for your help.
Richard
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Hi would I be correct that the Bartlett family were for many years in Acton Street, St Pancras 1851 HO107/1495/641/15 1841 HO107/ 682 9/3 / 1
Odd that the William on 1861 marriage was an Engineer yet 1862 a Smith which compares with 1841/51/61 even if the surname is incorrect, and a possibility in 1861 an Engineering ref/Smith
The Signature of Caroline in 1861 and 1862 is exactly the same in my opinion, would appreciate others views please.
William and Caroline had a son Archibald March qtr 1839 St Pancras v1 page 228 mothers maiden name GEARING
Keyboard86
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The Signature of Caroline in 1861 and 1862 is exactly the same in my opinion, would appreciate others views please.
I think it’s exactly the same signature, also the first witness is the same, Frederick? Robert Bartlett.
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The Signature of Caroline in 1861 and 1862 is exactly the same in my opinion, would appreciate others views please.
I think it’s exactly the same signature, also the first witness is the same, Frederick? Robert Bartlett.
In total agreement.
JJ
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Hi again thanks all, the age of Caroline varies in the same way as her birth place, is this the 1851 for her?
John Hobert Caunter 56 Occ Curate of Prittlewell
Caroline 32 b St Mary Le Bone, Middx
Alice 4 ( A witness? at 1861 marriage )
Robert 3 ( looks to be Hobart on original)
Blanche 1
Census ref HO107/1777/297/16
Keyboard86
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Could this be the death record for William Henry Bartlett?
BARTLETT, WILLIAM HENRY 74 Order
GRO Reference: 1870 S Quarter in PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 54 Occasional Copy: A
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What is an occasional copy?
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Another tree had him as dying in South Africa in 1867, but i think they confused him with someone else.
Richard
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Hi again Richard do you agree or disagree with the signature of Caroline in 1861/2 marriages?
Keyboard86
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I agree about the 1861 and 1862 marriages. I have enlarged them and they look similar with the bold C for Caroline and Caunter.
Richard
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Hi again Richard please read through all the replies given to you, I agree the death of William Henry Bartlett in 1870, as Caroline is a Widower in 1871 she is with her married daughter in 1891 aged 93 in Pirbright, Surrey
Abel Hill occ Commercial Clerk Father Thomas Hill married Louisa Bartlett Father William Henry Hill occ Engineer, both of Acton Street, 25th December 1856 Parish Chapel, St Pancras
Abel Hill was a School Master on census returns b Derbyshire
From prevoius threads/experience, do not rely on authenticity of "Trees" on Ancestry!?
Keyboard86
PS who is your direct ancestor in this family?
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Thank you Keyboard.
I agree that one should not rely solely on the authenticity of trees on Ancestry. In this case, with its many twists and turns, the records and dates given are mostly correct even if there's not much explanation of "the story."
The Caunter family is related to my aunt by marriage. While looking again at this branch yesterday, I was baffled and challenged by the limited solid data on my tree.
Thanks very much for your help. I saw the Abel Hill connection and am satisfied that we researched this branch as thoroughly as possible. I shall finish adding the data to my tree.
Richard aka Rkive
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"Weird the marriage 26th April 1862 Parish Chapel St Pancras of a Caroline Caunter?
Keyboard86
;D Ignore Bennett not Bartlett as father!"
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Re Ignore - I'm not sure what you mean here.
R
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:) All sorts of unanswered questions like who was Charles Edwin Barrett, and why did Caroline revert to her previous married name of Caunter when she married Edwin Hossack and then possibly revert to it once again at her death in Australia?
Interesting also the Matilda Bartlett 6 and Anne/Sarah Ann 3 Grandaughters with William & Caroline in 1861 RG09/108/4/12 as if I recall they show as children of Caroline in 1871?
Keyboard86
PS Ignore my "Ignore"?
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Barrett / Bennett / Bartlett ! ::)
A complex family to be sure.
Because they are a little distant from my direct line, I shall limit myself to the Carolines (mother and daughter).
Thanks
Richard
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Hi again, really a puzzle Charles Edwin Bennett/Edwin Hossack, as in 1861 census shown as lodger with William Bartlett and family by the looks of it, is a Charles Bennett 20 occ Engineer b Manchester, the same as the Edwin Hossack Iocated in 1851?
Census ref RG09/108/4/12
Keyboard86
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I see a death record for an Edwin Hossack in 1887 in Victoria, Australia with father John and spouse Maria Morrison.
A private tree supports this record and it appears he married Maria after Caroline.
Richard
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OK so Caroline in fact married the same man who was using different surnames in 1861 & 1862, he is consistent with a father called John occ Engineer, but why therefore did Caroline die as a Caunter and not a Bennett/Hossack
Keyboard86
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OK so Caroline in fact married the same man who was using different surnames in 1861 & 1862, he is consistent with a father called John occ Engineer, but why therefore did Caroline die as a Caunter and not a Bennett/Hossack
Keyboard86
Presumably he left her or vice versa? What puzzles me more is why she seems to have married him twice ???
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Hi again, the two girls on the 1851 census Prittlewell with John Hobart Caunter and Caroline were Alice aged 4 and Blanche 1, cannot locate birth registration of Alice, but were they in 1861:-
Alice COUNTER 14 b Kennington/Kensington at St Marys Hall, Eastern Road, Brighton
Census ref RG09/593/20/34
Blanche Caunter 10 b Prittlewell
Clergy Orphan Asylum, St Johns Wood Road,
Census ref RG09/89/34/60
What happened to them?
Keyboard86
Edit I did what you do and and a fairly well researched tree tells me both girls become a Governess with Alice's death being in the UK unmarried and Blanche marrying in South America and returning after the death of her husband to Fulham RG12/46/147/60 with daughter Blanche Nicol, then it states next she is in America aged 108?
The Alice death is also rubbish she also married in South America?!
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"Name: Alice Caunter
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 29 Apr 1846
Baptism Date: 11 Jun 1846
Baptism Place: Old Church,Saint Pancras,London,England
Father: John Hobart Caunter
Mother: Caroline
FHL Film Number: 598166, 598167, 598168"
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Alice married Ewart Carthew in Montevideo on 31st December 1873.
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I haven't seen Alice's birth record yet either. I wonder if she is recorded as Alice CARTER born in June Quarter in St Pancras vol I page 330?
Richard
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Hi again, still attempting to sort out the Bennett/Hossack problem, this is possibly the Edwin Hossack who married Caroline Caunter in 1851 census:-
John Hossack 39 occ Engineer etc b Liverpool
Jane 39 b Liverpool
Ann J 18
George 16
Elizabeth 14
John 13
EDWIN 10
Emma 7
Walter 5
Alfred 2
Earle 0
Children all born Manchester although I have located births registered in Preston / Blackburn & Warrington with mmn Rawlinson
Residing at Canal Street, Manchester
Census ref HO107/2227 ( Water damaged)
What happened from 1851 to this family?
John Hossack married Jane Rawlinson 8th November 1830 St Michael on Toxteth Park, Liverpool.
Keyboard86
EDIT Possibly in Bow 1861 census RG09/303/42/9
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Thanks so much for your persistence Keyboard.
I have to concentrate on my Thomas tree - and my birthday weekend, but rest assured that I am still adding info to my tree.
Richard
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still attempting to sort out the Bennett/Hossack problem,
So am I, but it remains a mystery for all my burrowing so far ??? :D