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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Worcestershire => Topic started by: Mansl on Wednesday 30 May 18 07:14 BST (UK)
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I have a decision to make do I purchase William H Mansell Birth certificate Sept qtr 1891 Pershore 6c 343. Baptised 2/8/1891 Throckmorton Parish Church parents William Mansell and Ann Cole.
1901 census RG13/2792 F74 P13.
1911 census found that as well.
I know that is my relation because of the parents. The problem is William below the date of birth doesn't match the registered birth.
or
The Marriage certificate of William H Mansell to Mabel A Morley June qtr 1916 Nottingham 7b 627.
This William born 9/11/1890 and Mabel 14/2/1893.
Deaths William 1965 aged 74 Sept qtr Pershore 9d 163.
Mabel 1966 aged 72 March qtr Pershore 9d 250.
Children
Richard Norman Sept qtr 1918 Pershore 6c 267(mmn Merley)
Edward Mar qtr 1920 Pershore 6c 400(mmn Moley)
Ronald June qtr 1921 Pershore 6c 350(mmn Morley)
Dennis Mar qtr 1924 Pershore 6c 295(mmn Morley)
Iris J June qtr 1927 Pershore 6c 266(mmn Morley)
Josephine June qtr 1929 Pershore 6c 265(mmn Morley)
Roger J Sept qtr 1944 Birmingham 6d 987(mmn Morley)This may not be their child.
I have found this family in the 1939 register.
I need to know if this family is connected to William in the census with parents William and Ann.
Alan
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I would buy the marriage cert. It should confirm the father's name and whether you have the right family. The birth cert would just confirm the birth date of the child born in 1891. There is a birth in 1890 in Martley is a possible :-\
Kay
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Thanks Kay.
I know that Ronald and his wife are buried at St James The Great Church at Norton they are on find a grave and I am planning going there on Thursday. I was wondering maybe I might find a gravestone there for William and Mabel from 1965 and 1966 and maybe it might have the right date of birth on it for William because they may have made a mistake in 1939. Although if the year is wrong November would be too late for the Baptism. Once I know that family are connected I can then go to the Bee Hive in Worcester and get the baptisms and burial dates which will probably be at St James.
Alan
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Good luck - I don't live far from the Hive if you want something checked ;D
Kay
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Just a few thoughts:
While the GRO still have their cheaper pdf offer on you could get the birth cert for £6, whereas the marriage cert will still be the full £9.25
GRO search confirms birth reg 1891 Q3 William HENRY Mansell (mmn Cole)
Can you find the marriage in the scanned registers (if there are scanned registers online?)
There seem to be a lot of William Mansells, what brought you to identify the census family with your baptised man?
Good luck
Cathy
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Hello Cathy.
William Mansell(my father's 1st cousin 3 times removed) that married Ann Cole is the son of William(b.c1812) and Patience Attwood.
William c1812 is the brother of my Great, Great, Great Granddad.
Alan
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I am just going to send for the marriage certificate and I will try and download the birth certificate if I can work out how to do it.
Alan
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I have managed to do both. I know the birth certificate is right person anyway with mmn Cole so that is not wasted money. Just hope the marriage says the right father.
Alan
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Children
Richard Norman Sept qtr 1918 Pershore 6c 267(mmn Merley)
What about the earlier birth?
Sep 1917 Pershore 6c 255
Mansell, Allen Allan
mother Morley
Which might suggest that William who married Mabel Morley in 1916 was from Suckley, the son of Allen and Agnes?
There is a possible army record for him - which doesn't mention a wife anywhere (but from a quick look I'm not sure if there is any kin on it?)
Newspaper article and photo from 1915 (award for bravery)
One oddity is that he was a Baker (which may not match 1939)
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Your man is down as Harry in 1911?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7B3-VNZ
William who died in 1965, if that's the one who married Mabel, has lost his middle name/initial. Not on 1939 either (she is Mabel A in the free index)
Not particularly unusual, but if he was Harry in 1911 then perhaps slightly worrying.
And we don't know what that H stands for on the Nottingham marriage.
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Might be a possibility for your man down in Willesden in 1939. If you think that's plausible.
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That possible first child died in 1919
March 1919 Pershore 6c 300
Mansell, Allen Allan
age 1
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I think William and wife Mabel are still in Pershore in 1939 but his birth is 9 Nov 1890 which predates the 1891 birth if correct and does look more like the Suckley birth in terms of dates
Kay
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Yes Kay, it would match the Dec 1890 Martley birth registration you found.
The puzzle then, if it is him, is why did he add a middle name when he married!
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Hopefully the marriage cert will have the answer ;D
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Yes I missed Allen but I see he died in 1919.
I know William, Mabel and their family may not be related but I will know when I have the cert.
The birth cert. pdf as not been sent yet but that won't be wasted because is mmn is Cole.
I have got marriages and deaths and gravestones for the children but if its not my family it won't matter I can just delete them.
Alan
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I know he was called Harry in 1911 but I didn't want to break any copyright rules.
The H stands for Henry which is on the Baptism record which I got from the Hive in Worcester.
Henry is often called Harry as you know. :)
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There is a possible army record for him - which doesn't mention a wife anywhere (but from a quick look I'm not sure if there is any kin on it?)
That look was too quick! It does have an address stuck on it at the beginning! From later I think.
Wennel Cottage Norton
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That is where I am going tomorrow that's where Mabel and William were living.
Alan
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The William in Willesden I have had in my notes as well I have the 1939 record.
He married Eliza Bush in 1915 in Willesden their son William H was also born in Willesden. If that birth cert. says born 19/6/1891 that will be my William.
Alan
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William died in 1963 aged 71. Eliza in 1953 aged 66.
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So Jon I do believe now that William is more than likely the Martley one because of the name of his first son and father. Mothers name Agnes Pritchard. Mable Alice Morley mothers name Annie M Pritchard could be a connection there as well. So the Marriage certificate will be the wrong one for me. The birth certificate is likely to say birth 19/6/1891 which will mean its the William from Willesden.
Alan
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Hi Alan
I do hope that the date on the birth certificate for your William Henry will match the chap in Willesden. It's a great pity that the marriage to Eliza Bush in 1915 isn't online.
I'm sure that the birth certificate will help in any case, let us know how you get on with it!
John
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Thanks John.
I will let you know as soon as I have it.
I wont need to buy the Marriage certificate if the birth matches. I am surprised the PDF hasn't been mailed to me yet, I would have thought it wouldn't take more than two days.
Alan
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:) :) :) :) :) :)
Hello John and Kay.
I have the birth certificate and it does match the William in Willesden.
That means When the Marriage Certificate gets here it will be the wrong one but I can now put William in my tree marrying Eliza Bush and they have that son William. I can also write in my book their details.
The other William had quite a large family off spring so at least I can delete all those.
I will have to search and see if William and Eliza had any more children besides William.
I don't suppose I will be able to trace who he married or if there are any children.
Thank you for your interest and help.
Alan
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Hi Alan
Thanks for letting us know. At least you have now found the right William in 39. A policeman if I remember rightly! Good luck.
John
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That's ok John thank you I have just put a post on the London site. I am trying to find Eliza Bush's parents. Looks like I might have to buy that other cert. The other is not here yet.
Alan
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I have now received the marriage certificate and the H stands for Herbert, the father is Allen as you suspected and the reason he found himself in Nottingham was because he was a soldier.
I have been trying to find the death of William H Mansell junior born 4/1/1925 unless they have made a mistake when they unredacted him in the 1939. I have found his wife Hazel Victoria nee Stevens death and Probate in 1985 in Buckinghamshire. She has been unredacted as well.
Alan
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Hi
Wonder where he got the Herbert from!
Good news about Eliza Bush, who you and Philip have identified as being from Saffron Walden. A baptism. See your other thread for details.
John
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I had got the baptism date from Ancestry this morning but there was no image available to check the date of birth but you have confirmed that now Thank YOU. :)
Alan