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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: pergamond on Tuesday 10 July 18 07:53 BST (UK)

Title: John Alcock, father of Thomas b 1850 Hanley
Post by: pergamond on Tuesday 10 July 18 07:53 BST (UK)
Now that I finally have details of Thomas's 1874 marriage, I know that his father was John Alcock, deceased, Tailor. It was an RC marriage in Preston, Lancaster County.
So far I have been unable to track John Alcock. Thomas was born in Hanley, Staffordshire, but lived in Preston. The only possible John Alcock from the 1851 census was a cordwainer (the others were publicans or bricklayers), which is loosely associated with sewing perhaps, albeit shoes. However his son Thomas was born in Leigh, Staffordshire, which looks to be not very close to Hanley which was the birthplace of my Thomas.
Any help gratefully received. :) (Not sure if I should be posting this in Staffordshire or Lancashire!)
Title: Re: John Alcock, father of Thomas b 1850 Hanley
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 10 July 18 07:59 BST (UK)
Who were the witnesses on Thomas's marriage
Title: Re: John Alcock, father of Thomas b 1850 Hanley
Post by: PaulineJ on Tuesday 10 July 18 08:03 BST (UK)
How many young Thomas alcock did you locate in 1851?

Births Sep 1850   (>99%)
Alcock    Thomas        Cheadle    17   34    
Alcock    Thomas        Stoke on T    17   
Births Dec 1850   (>99%)
Alcock    Thomas        Stoke on T.    17   

Stoke should be the correct registration district

ALCOCK, THOMAS       BALL    Order
GRO Reference: 1850  S Quarter in STOKE UPON TRENT  Volume 17  Page 166   
ALCOCK, THOMAS       MARTIN     Order
GRO Reference: 1850  D Quarter in STOKE UPON TRENT  Volume 17  Page 183   
ALLCOCK, THOMAS       SWETTENHAM     Order
GRO Reference: 1850  J Quarter in STOKE UPON TRENT  Volume 17  Page 173
Title: Re: John Alcock, father of Thomas b 1850 Hanley
Post by: BumbleB on Tuesday 10 July 18 08:16 BST (UK)
Possible for Thomas:

Baptism at St Giles, Cheadle (Roman Catholic)

Thomas, son of Johannis and Maria Teresa Douglas - born 15 March 1849, baptised 18 March 1849.



Title: Re: John Alcock, father of Thomas b 1850 Hanley
Post by: ShaunJ on Tuesday 10 July 18 08:18 BST (UK)
Have you found your Thomas Alcock in censuses before 1881?

I am wondering whether he changed his name. There is a tailor from Hanley named Thomas Campbell lodging at 11 Oxford Street, Preston in 1871. Same street as your Thomas in 1881.
Title: Re: John Alcock, father of Thomas b 1850 Hanley
Post by: BumbleB on Tuesday 10 July 18 08:29 BST (UK)
Alternative baptism for Thomas:

St Giles, Cheadle (Church of England)

8 September 1850 - son of John and Margaret Alcock of Tean Road.  John is a Carrier.

Title: Re: John Alcock, father of Thomas b 1850 Hanley
Post by: pergamond on Tuesday 10 July 18 08:36 BST (UK)
John was a tailor. The witnesses to Thomas Alcock's marriage to Ann Mulligan were Edwin Bebbington and Mary Mulligan. Mary was Ann Mulligan's older sister.
Title: Re: John Alcock, father of Thomas b 1850 Hanley
Post by: pergamond on Tuesday 10 July 18 08:37 BST (UK)
It looks like Bebbington, but could be Bobbington.
Title: Re: John Alcock, father of Thomas b 1850 Hanley
Post by: pergamond on Tuesday 10 July 18 10:38 BST (UK)
Shaun - Prior to the 1881 census I have only found  Thomas's 1874 marriage. No census. The name change is an interesting idea. I was unable to find Thomas Campbell later in 1881.

Pauline - I could only find 2 possible births in the Stoke area, if that's Hanley. The Swettenham one I think may have been connected to the family of potters/gilders.

Bumble B - The RC baptism at St Giles in Cheadle may be a possibility but a bit far from Hanley?

Thanks so much everyone for trying to help.
Title: Re: John Alcock, father of Thomas b 1850 Hanley
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 10 July 18 14:12 BST (UK)
Possible for Thomas:

Baptism at St Giles, Cheadle (Roman Catholic)

Thomas, son of Johannis and Maria Teresa Douglas - born 15 March 1849, baptised 18 March 1849.

This couple are in Cheadle in 1851 that John was also a Carrier
HO107 /2009 f460 p26
Title: Re: John Alcock, father of Thomas b 1850 Hanley
Post by: ChrissieL on Tuesday 10 July 18 21:37 BST (UK)
Might be a long shot but....
On the 1851 census for Wolviston, Durham
HO107; Piece: 2384; Folio: 68; Page: 37
there is a Thomas Alcock aged 8 months, grandson born in Staffordshire
at the home of William Bone aged 46
There is a daughter called Jemima Bone aged 21.  I noticed one of Thomas Alcock's children is called Jemima

Chris
Title: Re: John Alcock, father of Thomas b 1850 Hanley
Post by: pergamond on Tuesday 10 July 18 21:49 BST (UK)
I don't think this is a long shot. I have seen an Alcock family tree online which includes a Jemima Bone... thank you so much. I'll need to investigate this further.
Title: Re: John Alcock, father of Thomas b 1850 Hanley
Post by: ChrissieL on Tuesday 10 July 18 21:57 BST (UK)
I noticed that although Jemima has the surname 'Bone' on the 1851 census entry, she did in fact marry a John Alcock in 1949  1849 in Stockton on Tees

Chris
Title: Re: John Alcock, father of Thomas b 1850 Hanley
Post by: ChrissieL on Tuesday 10 July 18 21:59 BST (UK)
It looks like Jemima may have died in 1858 

Title: Re: John Alcock, father of Thomas b 1850 Hanley
Post by: pergamond on Tuesday 10 July 18 22:51 BST (UK)
I've found a John Alcock with wife Jemima and family in 1881, but John was a shipwright, and Jemima was born about 1836 in Sunderland, Durham. In the 1851 census Jemima was born about 1830 in Wolviston, Durham.
Title: Re: John Alcock, father of Thomas b 1850 Hanley
Post by: pergamond on Tuesday 10 July 18 23:09 BST (UK)
I've looked for deaths for John Alcock prior to 1874, but none of the ones I found were tailors.
Title: Re: John Alcock, father of Thomas b 1850 Hanley
Post by: pergamond on Wednesday 11 July 18 01:20 BST (UK)
If I ordered the 1849 marriage for John Alcock and Jemima Bone, is it likely to give the occupations?
Title: Re: John Alcock, father of Thomas b 1850 Hanley
Post by: BumbleB on Wednesday 11 July 18 06:41 BST (UK)
Yes, it should give you John's occupation, plus probably the occupations of the two fathers.
Title: Re: John Alcock, father of Thomas b 1850 Hanley
Post by: pergamond on Wednesday 11 July 18 07:06 BST (UK)
Thanks for that Bumble. Wasn't sure if that was done back then. Ok then - in 3 more weeks I'll know if it's the correct person.
Title: Re: John Alcock, father of Thomas b 1850 Hanley
Post by: ChrissieL on Wednesday 11 July 18 20:49 BST (UK)
Hopefully you will get some more information from the marriage certificate
Title: Re: John Alcock, father of Thomas b 1850 Hanley
Post by: Ladyhawk on Wednesday 11 July 18 21:29 BST (UK)
details of Thomas's 1874 marriage his father was John Alcock, deceased, Tailor.
So far I have been unable to track John Alcock.

The only possible John Alcock from the 1851 census was a cordwainer (the others were publicans or bricklayers), which is loosely associated with sewing perhaps, albeit shoes.


Could this be a possibility for his father John marital status looks to read mar (married)

1851 HO107; Piece: 2008; Folio: 679; Page: 26
John ALCOCK Mar 27  Macclesfield Cheshire journeyman tailor
Head Thomas Mottram Master Tailor & journeyman wife Sarah - John is not with them on 1861 census

EDIT - I wonder if this might be his baptism

John Alcock Baptism   14 Jul 1823 St Michael, Macclesfield, Cheshire
Father:   Henry Alcock Mother:   Sarah



Title: Re: John Alcock, father of Thomas b 1850 Hanley
Post by: Ladyhawk on Wednesday 11 July 18 22:14 BST (UK)
Might be a long shot but....
On the 1851 census for Wolviston, Durham
HO107; Piece: 2384; Folio: 68; Page: 37
there is a Thomas Alcock aged 8 months, grandson born in Staffordshire
at the home of William Bone aged 46

There is a daughter called Jemima Bone aged 21. 

I noticed one of Thomas Alcock's children is called Jemima

I noticed that although Jemima has the surname 'Bone' on the 1851 census entry,
she did in fact marry a John Alcock in 1849 in Stockton on Tees

It looks like Jemima may have died in 1858



I think you could be right Chrissie

On that 1851 census Jemima's surname is dittoed and her marital status is noted as MAR (married)

Jemima Bone Baptism 22 Nov 1829 Wolviston, Durham
Father:   William Bone Mother:   Jane

FreeBMD has a postem by the 1849 marriage entry
Jemima Bone to John Alcock 28 October 1849, unfortunately no further details given

Title: Re: John Alcock, father of Thomas b 1850 Hanley
Post by: pergamond on Thursday 12 July 18 00:19 BST (UK)
Thanks for that Ladyhawk - yes, the 1849 marriage will be interesting when I receive it. Here's hoping we have the desired occupations. The journeyman tailor from Cheshire - there's something for me to look at, thank you! And thanks too Chrissie for the crucial Jemima link!