RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: diplodicus on Friday 14 September 18 14:38 BST (UK)
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The 1901 census and 1911 census both show Alfred as a miner living in Llanwonno (Mountain Ash, Glamorgan) although born in London. In my Ancestry tree I have added him as baptised at St George the Martyr, Queen Square, London (as were his siblings). His father was another Alfred, watchmaker of Theobalds Road.
So here's the problem...
I have little confidence in my linking of this particular early Alfred to my later coal mining variety. There are a couple of others bearing a similar name (London or Cheshire) and I would welcome any assistance that links an early one with my late one. If I could find out where he ended up, that would be a bonus!
1896 - marries Mary Anne Evans Llandovery Q4/1896 11a1563.
1901 - 46 Phillip St. Llanwonno, Glamorgan. Family back in Cilycwm, Carms. Born St Pancras.
1911 - 50 Arnold St. Caegarw, Mountain Ash. Family with him. Born Kings X.
Two of his youngest known daughters were still in Wales when they married in the 1930s.
My thanks as always to fellow Rootschatters,
Malcolm
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He's also on the 1891 census in Cwmcothi, Conwil Caio as an 18 year old farm servant RG12/4507 folio 53 pg 6. On all census entries he is noted as speaking both English & Welsh.
He doesn't appear on Alfred John, just Alfred on census entries, his marriage and his death reg, aged 51 in dec qtr 1924. Age on death and on 1891 census suggests he was born before 1874.
Involved in the Baptist Church in Mountain Ash, singing a solo
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3578081/3578088/112/
again
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3577748/3577751/25/
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more singing and daughters involved in recitations
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3577107/3577112/49/
;)
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think this one from 1881 is more likely to be the one in Carmarthenshire & Glam, but marriage cert would confirm name of father & his occupation
1881 26 Caledonia Street, Islington RG11/229 folio 90 pg 29
Alfred Drinkwater head mar 35 cabdriver b. Glos, Tewkesbury
Mariann wife 33 born ? Middx
Ann P?th mother widow 70 b. Ireland
Elizabeth dau 12 b. St Giles
Alfred son 8 b. St Pancras
Arthur son 5 b. St Mary's
Anne dau 3 b. St Pancras
Mary Ann dau 2 b. Holborn
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2 birth regs
Alfred Drinkwater sept qtr 1873 Pancras vol 1b pg 75 mmn Rush
Alfred John Drinkwater march qtr 1874 Holborn vol 1b pg 645 mmn Lister
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Thank you Osprey,
I tend not to spend my pension on non-blood spouses of blood relatives, hence my original post. In the case of Alfred's wife, I'm not sure that we are related. Mary Anne Evans of Cilycwm is an ancestor of a couple of people with whom I share some common DNA. I'm still trying to find the missing link.
Ambiguous Alfred got to me but I'm not sure we'll ever know how he ends up in Conwil Caio (a few miles north of Cilycwm).
There's a picture of Ffrwd Baptist Chapel in Mountain Ash on Flicke. It appears to have closed for worship; there's a "To Let" board on it.
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1861 37 & 38 Theobalds St RG9/183 folio 64 pg 54
Henry Drinkwater head mar 45 coffee house keeper b. Glos, Beckford
Sarah wife 40 b. Beckford
Alfred son 17 cab diver b. Beckford
Henry son 15 b. Beckford
Laurie dau 12 b. St Andrews Holborn
Fanny dau 9 b. St Andrews
Francis son 7 b. Clerkenwell
Thomas son 5 b. St Andrews
John son 2 b. St Andrews
Louisa dau 1 b. St Andrews
John Richards lodger 2 b. Devon, Newton Abbot
1851 40 Theobalds Rd HO107/1513 folio 342 pg 35
Henry Drinkwater head mar 30 driver of post cart b. Cheltenham
Sarah wife 27
William son 19 errands
Agnes dau 10
Alfred son 7
Henry son 4
Lavinia dau 2 b. Middx
all born Beckford apart from noted
1841 Beckford HO107/368/9 folio 8 pg 11
William Smith 85 on the parish
Henry Drinkwater 25 ag lab
Sarah 20
Elizabeth 4
William 2
Agnes 3 months
birth reg Alfred Drinkwater sept qtr 1843 Winchcomb vol 11 pg 478 mmn Colley
Henry & Sarah have gone back to Beckford by the 1871 census but widowed Sarah is back in London by the 1881.
in case you want this...
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Oh no Osprey, having shown me that my original assumptions about the Alfred born to a cabinet maker of 79 Theobalds Road were erroneous, you now place them close together again ??? ??? ???
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father of Alfred senior is Henry though not William. The Theobalds Road is just a coincidence, I think...
Alfred Drinkwater married Mary Ann Rush 2 Sept 1872 at St Mary Whitechapel, his father Henry, carrier, and hers George a stone mason. One of the witnesses is Michael Rush.
Alfred John Drinkwater married Elizabeth Lister at St Mary Lambeth 19 Dec 1869, his father William Henry, dyer, and hers John, stone mason.
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The Alfred and Mary Ann /Marianne family are the ones baptising their offspring at St George the Martyr, Queen Square which is a couple of hundred yards north of 79 Theobalds Road!
My head hurts and I'm off to the pub.
Many thanks.
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no, it's Alfred John & Elizabeth No baptisms showing for Alfred & Mary Anne.
St George Martyr Camden baptisms to Alfred John, watchmaker, and Elizabeth
Eliza Caroline born 29 Oct 1870 bap 2 Dec 1870 4 John Street
William Henry born 4 March 1875 bap 3 April 1876 79 Theobalds Road
Heen Louisa born 16 Nov 1871 bp 13 Feb 1877 79 Theobalds Road
Alfred John born 18 Feb 1874 bp 13 Feb 1877
Florence born 10 March bp 11 April 1880 110 Theobalds Road
death reg for Alfred John Drinkwater senior aged 34 june qtr 1882 St Olave vol 1d pg 205
Elizabeth Drinkwater married Charles Skipp Osborne june qtr 1883 Islington vol 1b pg 458
Marriage was 31 May 1883 parish church of Islington, she was a widow, he was a widower, her father John Lister, stone mason, same as 1869 entry and one of the witnesses is Eliza Lister. The 1891 Osborne household RG12/200 folio 67 pg 56 has Alfred John Drinkwater stepson 17 commercial clerk born Bloomsbury.
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Osprey, many thanks for all your invaluable assistance. I seemed to have conjured up the "John" in my Alfred's name since a more careful scrutiny shows there is no documentary proof of a middle name.
It would be fascinating to know how he ended up as a farm servant at the age of 18 already speaking English and Welsh but I will await the endeavours of another to uncover this part of his story.
Hwyl fawr,
Malcolm
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perhaps he went to live with relatives in Gloucestershire and then decided to go further west...
:D