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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: BAC3 on Friday 12 August 05 16:41 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I wonder if any descendants, or people who have knowledge, of the "Parkhurst Boys" who were transported to NZ on the "St George" and the "Mandarin" in 1842 and 1843 respectively can help me.
My research for a Ph D at Southamton University here in the UK is based on Parkhurst Prison 1838-64 and I am attempting to create a database of Biographies for the juvenile convicts who were imprisoned there over that period, especially those who were subsequently transported. Any information, no matter how small or seemingly insignificant, about the individuals concerned......there were 123 altogether...... would be marvellous.
I look forward to any help you can offer.
Regards
Tony Cocks
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Hello Mk2_Zephyr,
All-in-all there were 123 "Parkhurst Boys" transported to NZ, via Auckland........92 on the "St George" landed 25/11/1842 and 31 disembarked from the "Mandarin" on 14/11/1843.
66 were termed "Apprentices" who were subject to control by the Immigrant Agent, David Rough, and were indentured to settlers wherever possible.....the remaining 57 were "Free Immigrants" and not subject to any restraints except supposedly being unable to leave NZ until their sentences had expired.
I hope the above is helpful.
Regards
BAC3
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Hi Tony,
I found this reference on Tapuhi, the database of unpublished manuscripts held by Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.
http://tapuhi.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/spydus/MSG/ARCHIVESNR/MNRMENU.HTM
Record Title : Sheryn Sunderland - My family origins in New Zealand
Display Dates : 1990
Reference Number : MS-Papers-4280-083
Collection Record : New Zealand Society of Genealogists : 1990 Sesquicentennial Family Biography Competition collection (MS-Papers-4280)
Issue Restriction : Unrestricted
Collection Status : PART OF COLLECTION
Issue Status : Issuable ITEM
Quantity : 1 folder(s)
History : William Astle came to Auckland in 1842 in the St George with 91 other `Parkhurst' boys
Scope and Contents : The essay covers the period 1842-1940 and describes the lives of William and Mary Astle, Edwin Joseph Roden and Mary Astle, Gertrude Hannah Roden, John McCann and Annie Burke, Edward John McCann, Ida Irene Catherine McCann, Isabella Wishart Dickson, James Rose, Elizabeth Mary Rose, Alfred Edward Sunderland and Henry Edward Sunderland, all forbears of the writer.
Finding Aids : Published guide available
Names : Sunderland, Sheryn, fl 1990 (Contributor)
Astle family (Subject)
Roden family (Subject)
McCann family (Subject)
Dickson family (Subject)
Sunderland family (Subject)
Parkhurst Prison (Subject)
Subjects : Pioneer life - New Zealand - Auckland Region
Pioneer life - New Zealand - Otago Region
Institution : Alexander Turnbull Library, Wellington, New Zealand
I would suggest that other likely sources, since the Parkhurst Boys arrived in Auckland, would be Auckland Museum and the NZ Society of Genealogists http://www.genealogy.org.nz/
You might also consider placing notices in the NZSG's nationally distributed journal, The New Zealand Genealogist. The NZSG has a national membership of about 20,000.
Regards, riley
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Hello Riley,
Thank you for your email and all the details for William Astle. They were very much appreciated.
It appears he was quite a well-known character in early NZ genealogical history for several weeks ago, courtesy of a notice I placed in the "The New Zealand Genealogist", I was contacted by one of his Great Great Granddaughters, Lois Coutts, and now have on my database a fairly substantial Biography for him. Unfortunately Lois is not an email user, so I have written to her airmail this morning, sending all the citation details for the Alexander Turnbull Library. She lives in Palmerston North and is scheduled to visit the Library in September.
It will be interesting to read Sheryn Sunderland's "My family origins in New Zealand" because William Astle from a very shaky beginning, both in England and NZ, became quite successful.......probably far beyond his wildest dreams had he remained in England. And, most importantly, another addition to the credit side of my Ph.D. hypothesis. It will also be interesting to find out whether or not Lois Coutts knows Sheryn Sunderland. Very often I have been able to introduce descendants to each other for the first time or where they have lost touch.
Again thank you for all your help....once I have read "My family origins in New Zealand" there may be "leads" to other "Parkhurst Boys".
Regards
Tony
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Hi Tony!
Two questions -
Are you just concentrating on the New Zealand "boys" ?
How many of the "boys" went to Australia do you know?
Parkhurst Prison is a category B trainer prison situated near Newport on the Isle of Wight. It was first built as a military hospital in 1805 then later transformed to a prison for boys awaiting deportation, mainly to Australia, as part of the Parkhurst act of 1835. It became such a success the Home Office decided to increase its size, and by 1847 a new wing (C wing) was built by the prisoners who actually dug the clay and baked the bricks. This wing is still in use today. In 1863 it was temporarily used as a female wing, then further wings (A B wings) were later built in 1869 to increase the population.
Annie
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Hello Annie,
New Zealand, along with VDL and Port Phillip, has proved difficult to research and it was recommended that I post a request on RootsChat for NZ. My Supervisor has agreed (dictated??) that a credible database representing the 123 "Parkhurst Boys" transported to NZ would be 20%, that is, 40 - 50......to date I have managed to research fairly reasonably 23 and thus have some little way to go yet!!
There were 1,499 juvenile convicts transported direct from Parkhurst Prison to Australia/NZ over the period 1838-1864, but this figure ignores those transferred from Parkhurst to other Prisons, Pentonville, Millbank and Dartmoor for instance, and then subsequently transported. Most of these eventually disembarked in Western Australia, with a small proportion arriving in VDL and Port Phillip.
Including the 23 Biographies documented for NZ my database extends to some 350 Biographies, with very much emphasis on Western Australia where the "convict stain", though not exactly disregarded, did not deny the keeping and researching of family records that may have been more obvious in the Eastern States until quite recently. For both VDL and Port Phillip I need 100 Biographies each, though that is probably something of a forlorn hope.
Still, that is research!!.......and snippets of information about any one of the above, no matter how small, would be welcome.
Tony
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Well Tony!
You do have a job on your hands - thats for sure...! - but how much fun is that?? you know of course you're not allowed to have a life while you're doing this?? :P
How much time do you have? I hope more than a couple of weeks ...!
I'm sure you'll get some help here - we have quite a reputation for being able to come through!!
Fingers crossed!!
Annie
By the way - do you have a list of names you're going by??
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Hello Annie,
But I have got a life.......some people call it the "Third Age", others becoming a "Senior Citizen" (whatever that is!!!) and the sensible ones just plain, old-fashioned retirement. I'm of the latter persausion and the Ph.D is the next challenge to keep me off the streets and, I have to admit, out from under my wife's feet.
I have a list of the 1,499 "Parkhurst Boys" who were transported, including the 123 to New Zealand, although those that were transported after being transferred to other prisons are slightly more problematic.
My dissertation has to be submitted within the next 3 years, so I do have some leeway, and the main advantage is that researching for the Biographies continues alongside my other research and writing. Trouble is you get sidetracked too easily.......cricket, rugby, the occasional visit to the local, even researching at the University library can have diversions!!
As you say, fingers crossed for some positive feedback and I did notice tonight that my posting had had 89 "hits".
Tony
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Hi Tony
I suppose you have this book!!
http://www.self-publishers.org.nz/nhist1.htm
Annie :P
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Hello Annie,
Thanks for the reference.
Yes, I contacted Bryce Hadleigh through that website and bought his book "A Wind from the North"......Have you read it? Sam's Liverpudlian background would have probably interested you most of all.
Incidentally, Bryce Hadleigh was very kind and sent me some of his research notes which contributed a lot to the 23 Biographies I've completed.
Regards
Tony
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Tony!
You might find this interesting - it's about a ship to Australia - but one of the people on board was a Guardian to the Parkhurst boys ... wondered if you had read this already - quite fascinating!!
Annie
http://chrisuphill.tripod.com/list.htm
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Hello Annie
Thanks for the reference.
I am always interested in any mention of John Schoales Jnr., the first Guardian to the Parkhurst Boys in Western Australia, primarily because not an awful lot has been written about a "reformer" who was so important to the "Parkhurst Boys" becoming accepted. He really set a successful benchmark that sadly was not followed through.
The correspondence between John Schoales and the Reverend Benjamin King I have copied for future reference.
Good prime source material...thanks again.
Tony
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Apparently the locals were not happy about these Parkhurst Boys coming to NZ according to this snippet from a brief history about Auckland (http://www.highstreet.co.nz/highstreet/history/1840.asp):
"8 October 1841 The first ships to bring Immigrants direct from Britain arrived in Auckland. Two weeks later a ship bought the Parkhurst Boys from Britain, these boys were petty convicts and were described as "immigrant boys" in official documents. The locals felt they had been betrayed by England, as the New Zealand Colony wasn't supposed to receive any convicts."
Seems like it was a bit of a raw deal for all concerned. :-\
Cheers
Koromo
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The local Auckland population were justified in feeling unhappy about the Parkhurst Boys as the English Government had certainly been "economical with the truth". However, it was not unknown for there to be convicts in NZ with escapees/absconders fleeing from New South Wales, for example.
Parkhurst Prison transported two categories of convict to NZ, "Apprentices" and "Free Immigrants", and it was the latter grouping who were seemingly the major problem.....they were not subject to any form of administrative control and it was perceived that they were the cause of the increased crime levels in Auckland. The "Apprentices" on the other hand were indentured to the settlers at very low wage rates, mostly with board and lodging included, and this was a far more satisfactory, acceptable arrangement for both parties.
The whole furore about the influx of those 123 Parkhurst Boys lasted only a very short while but, of course, ensured that no further convict ships landed in NZ. The comparison with Western Australia is very stark. WA needed manpower to maintain the economy and there were no real causes for concern with the 234 transported there. NZ did not and considered the Parkhurst Boys an unwarranted financial imposition.
Regards
BAC3
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It's all fascinating - I had not ever known about the Parkurst Boys before. Auckland is estimated to have only had a population of 2895 in 1842, so another 123 young lads would have been noticeable.
Best wishes for your research, Tony.
K.
:)
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Hi Tony!
This of course is Australia - I thought you might be interested to read some different angles!!
http://www.hyperhistory.org/index.php?option=displaypage&Itemid=569&op=page
Annie
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Hello Annie,
Thanks for the website reference.
I am using Point Puer as a counterpoint to Parkhurst Prison in my thesis, essentially as the former was the first prison for juvenile convicts in the British Empire and had a reasonably good record in terms of reform given the lack of resources (Teachers etc.). The most interesting aspect is that the experiences of Point Puer were not effectively relayed back to England for constructive use in the later administration of Parkhurst Prison. I appreciate distances in the early 1800s were the great barrier to communication but Point Puer had been operative for 4/5 years before Parkhurst Prison was established.
I have taken a copy of the website for my files.
Regards
Tony
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Hi Tony!
Did you read this yet? let me know when you're fed up !!
http://www.law.mq.edu.au/sctas/html/1843cases/R%20v%20Sparks,%201843.htm
Annie ::)
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Afternoon Annie,
This is probably one of the best websites I have seen in terms of "prime source material" for Tasmania....the sadness for me is that the Case Histories are only available up to 1843 and the first "Parkhurst Boys" did not arrive in Hobart until October 1843.
Some of the 500 or so who were sent to Tasmania were really "incorrigible" and in fact one of them Julius Baker was hanged on 10/05/1860 in Hobart for "shooting with intent to do grievous bodily harm or to kill and murder". And there are lots of others who spent their lives committing crimes....I would love to read the court transcripts ( See how easy it is to get sidetracked!!).
No, there is no reason for me to be fed up. All these references are invaluable, because reading through them very often gives me other "leads" to go chasing.
All I can say is "thank you".
Tony
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Hi Tony!
Your Good Lady is either going to love me or hate me because I can keep you quiet for hours!! :P :P
http://www.sro.wa.gov.au/collection/convict.html#top
http://www.orange.k12.oh.us/teachers/ohs/tshreve/apwebpage/readings/juvcrime19cbr.html
I'm still looking for case histories - nothing yet but we'll get there!!!
Have a great day!
Annie
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http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~nzbound/portnic43.htm
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm199798/cmselect/cmhealth/755/755ap07.htm
http://tasmanianphotographers.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2005/4
http://tasmanianphotographers.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2005/5/offset=3
Annie :P
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Hello Annie,
All useful sources....some old and some new....and it has taken me, as you correctly thought, some little while trawling through plucking out snippets of information here and there
The SROWA website is particularly interesting and I have added it to my "Favourites", but probably a sister website http://www.fremantleprison.com/history/ConvictsandShips/convict_display.cfm has proved invaluable providing individual details for "Parkhurst Boys" transported to Western Australia after 1850.
My good lady is into "rubbish", the type most councils collect on a fortnightly cycle of disposable and recyclable!!! She wants reversion to weekly regardless of classification!! You can visit her website on www.weeklywaste.com
Once again all my thanks for your help.
Regards
Tony
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Hi Tony!!
http://members.iinet.net.au/~dodd/gail/publications/first_family/matthews_keogh.htm
http://iccs.arts.utas.edu.au/
http://www.convictcentral.com/index.html (click on links!)
Have a great day!
Annie
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Tony!
I've been thinking ! (I hate it when I do that!)
but if you have a list of boys - why don't you try looking up the Intentions for Marriage - surely some of them got married while they were there!!
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,55310.0.html
Annie :P
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Expanding on my last posting - I Googled "Parkhurst Boy Wed "- nothing - all of a sudden this site came up!!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~mgosney/wilson.html#paf
Coley - Sussex (Parkhurst Boy, "St George")
Annie
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Hello Annie,
This website was designed by a Murray Gosney, who I contacted sometime last year about James Coley......he did respond with a promise of information but the contact went no further. Fortunately James Coley "sired" a large number of descendants and I now have a fairly comprehensive Biography for him.
There is also a Joseph Coley, ex-Parkhurst Boy transported to NZ on the "St George" too, but despite fairly exhaustive research through various channels no link has been established and no details available after his arrival in NZ. The popular belief is that he was James Coley's brother.
Take care
Tony
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Hello Annie,
The http://iccs.arts.utas.edu.au reference could be extremely useful.
I am familiar with Lucy Frost's work on Convictism and, as she organised the [ESCAPE] Conference in 2003, I have sent her an email asking for a copy of a particular Paper delivered at the Conference on escaped convicts in, and fleeing to, New Zealand. At the same time I explained the nature of my Ph D and as she, too, studies convict Biographies there may be areas where ideas/information can be exchanged.
Thanks for the tip.
Regards
Tony
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One more - then I'll leave you alone for a while!!!! ::) ::) ::)
http://www.dailywriting.net/ShippingYears.htm
Have a great day Tony!
Annie
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Annie,
You don't have to leave me alone....I enjoy the emails, each one has a snippet of information new to my files............much appreciated.
This one for example talks about whaling, and boat building, but it is the whaling aspect that interests me, especially as regards Tasmania and Western Australia. Quite a large number of the "Parkhurst Boys" escaped from the Colonies aboard American Whalers and they become lost entirely to my research......so how do I treat them for analysis......the easy answer "unreformed" and "recidivists".
Incidentally, did you get my responses to the other emails....I was especially grateful for the "lead" to the [ESCAPE] Conference in 2003.
Take care
Tony
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What caught my eye was this !
It was in this setting that John Watson and his brother Captain George Watson, merchant shipowner - one the shipwright, the other the sailor - induced young men to build ships and take them to sea. They did this with the convict lads from Point Puer at Port Arthur and with the roughest and toughest of the adult convicts there. Before John Watson took charge of the Port Arthur Government shipyards these men were mostly unmanageable. With John Watson they worked well and won their liberty, many continuing to work as shipwrights in the thriving Blue Gum Clipper industry.
and my thought was - maybe you could find out about the "boys" from the Blue Gum Clipper!! - if there was any way to get information from them? Maybe Riley could help you with that!! ::) ::)
Annie
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Good Evening Annie,
I read through the website, checked on a few names that were quoted in the text as being "good apprentices" etc., though there were no connections. I quite like the idea about the Blue Gum Clipper industry, but who is "Riley"......for the life of me!!!
Incidentally, I used to live in Hobart more years ago now than I care to remember.
For now
Tony
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Hi Tony!
Riley is another Rootschatter who does an awful lot of work on the New Zealand board - extremely knowledgable - in fact replied to your post at the beginning !
Doesn't the Blue Gum Clipper Industry sound cool?? I love that! - makes it more interesting to research - when you have fun names to look up!!
I'll keep looking - ::)
Annie
Big-long-link (http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:jtTEcFdobCcJ:www.library.otago.ac.nz/pdf/Hoc_Fr_bulletins/14_bulletin.pdf+blue+gum+clipper+industry+new+zealand&hl=en&client=safari)
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Hi Tony,
If you want to look for NZ ITM's I can do that, although as they're not indexed after 1881 it will be time consuming. The best method is to find a marriage match to their name first, and then take an educated guess as to where they married, then look for the ITM.
However, advertising in the Information Wanted section of The NZ Genealogist Magazine published by the NZ Society of Genealogists would probably elicit a number of repsonses from descendants who could provide the same information.
ITM's could then be sought for those remaining, perhaps.
The Blue Gum Clipper is an Australian reference with no NZ connection as far as I can see.
Annie, thanks for the compliment; much appreciated but hardly deserved. I prefer 'ignorant but persistent' ;)
Regards, riley
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I was wondering how many of the families of the Parkhurst Boys went to War??- probably their grandchildren - but it would be intriguing to find out - wouldn't it?
this is odds and ends things that you may find interesting!
http://www.ozlists.com/genies/index.htm
and this is some details from the British Parliament!
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm199798/cmselect/cmhealth/755/755ap07.htm
Annie :D
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Hello Riley,
Thanks for the offer to look up the NZ ITMs.......one I cannot possibly refuse, although I do appreciate it is probably a "hit and miss" exercise.
The names below are ones for whom I have partially-completed Biographies and am hoping to find details that may indicate that they became "absorbed into colonial society as free citizens", such as marriage, children etc. All the names quoted disembarked from the "St. George" in November 1842 at Auckland:
1. William Henry BEASLEY;
2. William Grace BLACKWELL;
3. Thomas BURNAND ...........he had a Brother, Isaac,
who was transported alongside him for whom,
strangely, I have marriage/children details.....there
appears to be no trace of Thomas according to Isaac's
descendants;
4. Thomas HARVEY....... he may have become a Chemist;
5. John or James MAHONEY or LEE;
6. William SMITH (aka HARLINGTON);
7. William WARNETT (aka WARNUTT or WALNUTT).
That only leaves 116 "Parkhurst Boys" to research in NZ........!! Actually if I can create another 7 or 8 full Biographies that would be more than sufficient for my thesis. At the moment I have 17, including 3 who were re-transported to Tasmania, so the completion rate is fairly reasonable.
Once again, my thanks for your help......but please should you have any difficulties then don't waste too much time.
Best wishes
Tony
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Hello Riley,
I forgot to mention that I had already advertised for information about the Parkhurst Boys in the "NZ Genealogist Magazine" back in April/May of this year.
There were about 5 responses, which I felt was quite good, the descendants of Isaac Burnand being one of them.
My regards
Tony
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Hello Annie,
I thought I would keep you up-to-date with my follow-ups to some of the websites you have kindly sent me.
You will recall my writing to Lucy Frost about the [ESCAPE] Conference in 2003 and a Paper delivered by a Robert Grant about escaped convicts to NZ in the early 19th century......these could have muddied the waters for the "Parkhurst Boys" and been partly responsible for the bad press they got.
Unfortunately she does not have copies of the Papers that were delivered at that Conference and is not sure of the present whereabouts of Robert Grant, except he may be attached to a British University. A little disappointing, but never mind.
So internet here I come
Take care
Tony
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Here you go - University of Kent!!
http://iccs.arts.utas.edu.au/escape_participants.htm#_Robert_Grant
Annie ::)
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This is Freemantle - but may give you inspiration!!
http://www.fremantleprison.com.au/history/history9.cfm
Annie
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Tony!
William Henry BEASLEY - was he born in Coventry? do you know?
Annie ::)
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Good Evening Annie,
I was on the University of Kent site when you "called". Unfortunately no way to raise Robert Grant direct by email (not that I can find anyway) BUT I have a Nephew (in law) who is beginning his Third Year there and he is going to use his Password etc. to give me the address.
The Fremantle Prison website is one I mentioned to you as being a "godsend" in terms of the 100 ex-Parkhurst juveniles transported to West Australia after 1850. For sheer convict information it is probably the best site I have come across........ I have been able to unearth details for at least 50 of the juveniles.
William Henry Beasley.......he was sentenced at Newgate Quarter Sessions on 14/09/1838 and was then aged 15.
But no Coventry connection I can see. He is of interest, however, in that he was one of the first batch of 102 boys to be incarcerated at Parkhurst when it officially opened on 26/12/1838.
For now
Tony
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Afternoon Annie,
Managed to trace Robert Grant eventually......he was, or is, a Ph D student in the English Department at the University of Kent. The Department has taken my email address and will ask him to contact me.
We shall have to see how things develop....thanks for confirming "University of Kent " yesterday.
Tony
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Hi Tony!
Good for you - getting through to him ! I'll keep my fingers and toes crossed!! :P
I was wondering about trying to get census information about "the boys" - some of them did go home didn't they? or are you only interested in the ones that stayed?
Annie
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Hello Annie,
Robert Grant has got in touch with me.........he is a Visiting Fellow at the Institute of Commonwealth Studies!!! Now that could open so many doors, although there is a little voice saying something about chickens in a hatchery and counting!!!
One or two of the Parkhurst Boys did eventually return to England, especially those transported to Western Australia, but in every case I 've come across they returned to Australia. Whatever information I can find post-transportation will be be invaluable.
However, your advice please, which has bearing on the last paragraph..............
There were quite a large number of the Parkhurst Boys released back into England, either because their sentences had expired or they were "on licence/probation". Some of this information will be available at the National Archives, but that in itself is a difficult exercise......I wonder if you have any ideas on how I can trace some of these. If you come back with the answer "impossible" you will echo my
thoughts precisely.
For now
Tony
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Tony! that's good news!
So Mr Grant is available - that is terrific! -
always be optimistic ..... you never know !
I don't think it's impossible!!
If they served their time and were allowed to come back - I imagine
they would just be intergrated into the community! - that's why I wondered if maybe they could be found on the 1851- 1861 census!
I don't think in those days they would have been followed by probation officers!
It would be really cool to see if you could track them - looking for birth marriage and death certificates etc - or is that getting TOO involved ??
Annie
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Good Evening Annie,
Within the space of a few emails Robert Grant had sent not only part of his PhD Dissertation relevant to NZ but a transcript of the talk he gave at the [ESCAPE] Conference. He also suggested that if I need any further help to ask.
What did we do before PCs and Emails??
A good idea trawling through the various Censuses to find returning transportees and those juveniles released back into England but, as you said. it can become TOO involved, a little time-consuming and expensive where obtaining Birth/Marriage/Death Certificates are concerned. I may try a representative sample and see how it works out.
Anyway, thanks for the advice....setting me a challenge and, after all, that's what research is about!!
For now
Tony
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The Isle of Wight Family History Society have an article in one of their journals that mentions the Parkhurst Boys - vol 55.
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Thanks "Bearkat",
I shall give the IOWFHS a ring tomorrow.
BAC3
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Oh Tony!
Robert Grant has really gone up in my estimation!! - how great is that!!
I'd be happy to try and help with census and stuff - just shout when you decide what you want!!
Annie :D
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Hello Annie,
Thank you for the offer regarding look-ups in the various Censuses. One I cannot refuse.......but!!!
There are some initial difficulties in that I have no idea where these ex-Parkhurst Boys would be living as destinations on discharge from the Prison are not specified, other than when transported. Having said that I have just completed a Biography for one boy transported to Tasmania and there is every possibility he returned to England with his wife and family after 1855 when he received his Certificate of Freedom...... details are:
County: Lancashire possibly;
Name: William ISHERWOOD;
Wife's Name: Robina (nee Dick and an ex-convict);
Daughter's Name: Fanny;
Respective ages in 1855: 23, 22 and 12 months.
I could also give you some unusual names to trace, for example, this boy was released "On Licence" on 20/09/1854:
County: Norfolk possibly;
Name: John TREADGILL;
Age: 15
It will be inetresting to see whether or not there are positive responses.
Good luck and all my thanks
Tony
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Hi Tony!
I'll give it a go! - but the thought occurred to me - that they could have changed their names - seeing as how they were both convicts!!! but I will try!
If anybody else wants to give it a go - please feel free ;) ;) ;) ;)
Have a great day!
Annie
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Hi Tony!
I think this is your John! - but I didn't find him in Norfolk!!
Look through this and tell me what you think .....
Willow and Jericho did all the work!!
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,85623.0.html
Annie ::) ::) ::)
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Good Afternoon Annie,
Please thank everyone for trying to trace John Treadgill.....it was never going to be easy with so little information. Probably, if I was honest, nigh on impossible. However, nowt ventured nowt gained.
I have spent a little while weighing up all the possibilities, assuming he was born in 1839 or even 1835 if he was 15 when convicted, but sadly none of the suggestions seems to fit. This happens to me quite often in Australian records, dealing especially with "Smith and Jones"
If I could offer a definite destination post-release from Prison then I think the chances of unearthing details would be greater, but I only have about 3 or 4 such cases, for example:
John DIDCOTE
Age in 1844: 15 years when received at Parkhurst Prison
Returned to his Father in 1847
Father lived in Cheltenham
Father's Name: Ino
Occupation: Shoemaker
Samuel SWINDALL
Age in 1844: 14 years when received at Parkhurst Prison
Sent to Northampton House of Correction 1844 as his
sentence commuted to six months
Father lived in Northampton
Father's Name: Samuel
Occupation: Auctioneer
John WURR
Age in 1844: 15 when received at Parkhurst Prison
Sent home in 1847
Father lived in Norwich
Father's Name: Thomas
Occupation: Shoemaker
Maybe these offer a better chance and the names are slightly unusual too.
I shall keep my fingers crossed.
For now
Tony
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Hi Tony!
I was figuring he was 15 when he was transported in 1842 - 1843 !!!!
and give or take 2 or 3 years for census ages ( they never are exactly right!! )
I thought that would make the years of research 1828 - 1831...... I didn't realise that he was 15 when he was freed !!! ( that's not right is it ? is that what you're saying ??)
This John was the best possibility!
Ah well back to the drawing board as they say!!!
Annie
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Hello Annie,
Sorry, and my apologies, I thought you may have been misled with John Treadgill who was not transported but "Released on Licence" back into England.......any of the Parkhurst Boys in this category, or those whose sentences had expired and were simply discharged from Parkhurst Prison, are going to be extremely hard to find. The three examples I sent you earlier are all in these categories.
The only true hope is that I concentrate on those with particularly unusual names or, another thought, some were returned to the Gaols where they had originally been imprisoned after conviction.
The difficulty with the Parkhurst Prison Register that I use, and most other researchers have the same problem, is to determine whether or not the age quoted is that either when they entered the Prison or were discharged. I tend to use the former........in most cases, however, there is only a 2 year, or at the most 3 year, age difference between the two events.
William Isherwood was transported and the records I have from Australia indicate there is every possibility he returned to England, although it would have been extremely expensive.
Once again I really am grateful for the way people "mucked in" to help me.
For now
Tony
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OK Tony!
I think I've " got it " now ::) ::)
I didn't read the fine print properly - story of my life ..... !
I'll start again!!
Annie
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Annie,
As a mature Postgraduate I have many, many "Senior Moments".......that involves not reading the small print, too........!!
Nos da (Yes, another of those accursed Welshmen)
Tony
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Hi Tony !
Woodydog found this !
William Isherwood & Robina Dick married 9 May 1853 in Tasmania, Australia- Robina 20 & William 21 at time of marriage (taken from the IGI)
Robina & William married in Campbell Town,Tasmania 1853
Fanny was born in 1854 in Hobart, Tasmania.
No sign of them on 1861 and 1871 census in England! - especially Lancashire !they probably changed their names - Robina is so distinctive - nothing! D'you think they more than likely stayed there ? they could have gone home and decided to go back!
Hope you're having a great day!!
Annie 8)
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Hello Annie,
Please pass on my thanks to "Woodydog".
The main reason for my thinking that William Isherwood and his family may have returned to England, after he was awarded his Certificate of Freedom on 27/06/1855, was the comment on his Conduct Record ....."Must pay cost of passage". He was a Coppersmith and presumably fairly well-paid, so there is some possibility he could have afforded the fares.
Do you remember our little discussion about whaling and the Blue Gum Clipper Industry? I was completing research on one of the Tasmanian Parkhurst Boys, Ralph Halliwell, today and his Conduct Record contained the following entry..."13/01/1852: Hobart - Absconded and concealed on board a whaler with intent to escape and sentenced to 18 months hard labour".
For now
Tony
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Tony - do you have this list of links ?
http://www.genealogylinks.net/australia/tasmania/tas-con.htm
Annie :D
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Hello all- I found the following on "The Times" archive, don't know if it will help or throw a spanner in the works!
The Times dated 7 January 1846
Middlesex Sessions
Thomas Miller aged 8 & Henry Rawley aged 15 convicted of stealing a wooden till containing £1 11s & 6d the property of Andrew Glass.
After much discussion regarding the ages of the boys and the fact that if they went to Parkhurst they would have to be transported (which they seemed to think too hard a punishment) it was found that they had been in court on numerous other occasions & that they would be sentenced to be transported for 7 years each through Parkhurst.
Now then where are William & Robina....... told you I'd get side tracked..............................!!!!
Rose
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Good Afternoon Rose,
Thank you for the message...interesting!
Neither Thomas Miller nor Henry Rawley appear in the Parkhurst Prison Register, which I find strange if reported by the "Thunderer"....certainly as soon as there was any mention of "Previous Convictions", regardless of the seriousness, any sympathy towards the juveniles evaporated, and in 1846 Parkhurst Prison (or should I say transportation) would have been the automatic sentence!!
Back to William and Robina.........
For now
Tony
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Hello Annie,
Thanks for the website address.
I took some of the links from that website and added them to my "Favourites" a little while ago......it is a mine of information, although quite a lot deals with pre-1838.
The first "Parkhurst Boys" did not reach Tasmania until 25/12/1845 on the "Stratheden".
Take care
Tony
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Hello Annie,
Another "Senior Moment" that I have to own up to.....in my last missive I mentioned the "Stratheden" as being the first convict ship carrying "Parkhurst Boys" to VDL.
Wrong!!
It was the "Mandarin" on 16/10/1843 that landed 51 of them.
Tony
-
Tony!
Did our young man get married TWICE ? or did he just apply to marry twice ?
I hope Riley can explain this for us!!
http://resources.archives.tas.gov.au/archmarriage/SearchResults.asp
ISHERWOOD William Nile DICK Robina Aurora 04 FEB 1853 CON52/6 RGD37/12 :1853/74
ISHERWOOD William Nile LELAND Sarah Ann St Vincent 29 OCT 1851 CON52/4
Annie
You can be a senior as often as you want!!!! :P :P
-
Good Evening Annie,
According to that website "Marriage Permission" there were two requests.....the first one to Sarah Ann Leland probably fell through (there was no RGD Reference to recognise the marriage) and he then married Robina Dick.
This marriage is also confirmed by the Digger - Tasmanian Pioneer Index 1803 - 1899 under RGD Reference 37/12.
He led a complicated life did our Mr Isherwood!!
Tony
-
So did you have that already Tony? are we just going over what you already have ?
Please let us know when we're giving you something you don't have !
We also had the Robina marriage through IGI!!
Annie
-
Hello Annie,
My Biography for William Isherwood was fairly complete up to the point he married Robina and Fanny was born....I always check Archives Tasmania for "Marriage Permission" as it is the one research area that can possibly give me a reference point after arrival in Tasmania.
It was the comment "Must pay cost of passage" on his Conduct Record that made me think there could be some of his life history to be followed up in England.
My apologies if everyone got sidetracked "down under".
Tony
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Hello Tony,
I dont know if you've seen this site.
www.pearlspad.net.nz/ParkhurstBoys.htm
Theres a piece on it about the Boys from Parkhurst Prison. Isle of White, with a note of grateful thanks to Janet Martin. Maybe this woman will be able to shed a bit more light on what became of these boys.
Best wishes,
Tracy.
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Hi Tony,
I'm sorry to say that I've been unable to trace any of these individuals for you in NZ;
1. William Henry BEASLEY
2. William Grace BLACKWELL
3. Thomas BURNAND
4. Thomas HARVEY
5. John or James MAHONEY or LEE
6. William SMITH (aka HARLINGTON)
7. William WARNETT (aka WARNUTT or WALNUTT)
Regards, riley
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Hello Tracy,
Thank you for the reference to the "Pearlspad" website.
I came across this website a little while ago and in fact downloaded all the details for my NZ "Master File" as a cross-check and, at the same time, sent an enquiry to Janet Martin. Sadly she never responded.
I am grateful for your help and anything relating to the "Parkhurst Boys" and NZ that you come across, no matter how small or insignificant, do please let me know.
My regards
Tony
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Hello Riley,
Sad news, but never mind! All my thanks for trying, I really am grateful.
NZ continues to be an enigma in terms of tracing the "Parkhurst Boys".........I have some excellent "prime source" material from Internal Affairs, Archives New Zealand, which charts their progress minutely up to 3 years after their arrival. Beyond that point(1844/45), very little unfortunately.
Once again my thanks for helping.
Regards
Tony
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Hi Tony!
Jebb, Sir Joshua, 1793-1863, Knight Surveyor General of Convict Prisons
1793-1876
You may have this already - but I found a collection - that talks about the boys at Parkhurst and also talks about Queen Victoria pardoning 2 of the boys !! - don't know how hard it is to gain access - but thought you might be interested!
http://library-2.lse.ac.uk/archives/handlists/Jebb/m.html
http://www.lse.ac.uk/library/
Annie
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Hello Annie,
Oh dear......very much a weak spot in my research and one of the most important "protaganists" too, Sir Joshua Jebb. I will have to visit the British Library at some stage, but the thought of fossicking through 13 boxes of material, plus the cost of travelling back and fore to the Library itself, is daunting.
Fortunately there is some material at Southampton University which I am working my through, and I did obtain quite a few of his Reports via the Prison Service Library at Newbold Revel, but NOT his correspondence which is essential.
You also hit upon one of life's little mysteries......I knew of the two juveniles pardoned by Queen Victoria when she visited the prison on the 2nd August 1845, though I have never been able to establish who the two boys actually were, even with the help of the Parkhurst Heritage Centre!! I scanned the two websites you gave me but I could not find a direct reference to the incident.....help!!??
The LSE will not allow direct access to the archives etc. off campus, except by special arrangement.....however, whatever material I need normally Southampton can obtain for me through the Inter-Library Loan system.
For now
Tony
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Hi Tony!
Here's your homework!!!::) some stuff you have - I'm sure ! - I'll keep looking for the two boys!! - apparently the story is in the collection - you have to try and get that!
http://www.fred.net/jefalvey/newgate.html
http://www.shoal.net.au/~whybrow/index.html
http://www.exclassics.com/newgate/ngconts.htm
http://library-2.lse.ac.uk/archives/handlists/Jebb/Jebb.html
http://www.npg.org.uk/live/search/portrait.asp?LinkID=mp56683&rNo=0&role=sit
http://www.lse.ac.uk/library/archive/gutoho/Jebb.htm
http://www.thepeerage.com/p9460.htm
Annie ::)
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Jill_M_Chambers/#_Parkhurst_Prison_Registers
http://members.lycos.co.uk/Jenny5/voyage_out.htm
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Tony!
The Protector of Aborigines was the man who stopped the Parkhurst Boys going to New Zealand after I think it was 1843!!
http://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/heritage/collection/8.cfm
http://www.mup.unimelb.edu.au/catalogue/0-522-84744-7.html
http://www.sro.wa.gov.au/community/aboriginalhistory-index.html
http://static.highbeam.com/q/quadrant/april012003/fromthediaryofaprotectorofaboriginesaboriginalpoli/
http://www.atmitchell.com/journeys/social/robinson.cfm
Thought you might be interested - that is of course if you don't already have these ::)
Annie
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Hi Tony
What is it that you want to know about the Parkhurst boys?
I am a descendant of one of them...don't have a lot of info but am willing to share what I do have.
These are a couple of good sites if you are just looking for names.
http://pearlspad.net.nz/ParkhurstBoys.htm
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~tonyf/parkhurstboys/convicts4.html
What I am more interested in is finding out more info on them before they came to NZ. ???
Regards
Lyn
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Annie,
Thank you for the "homework"!!
......these look good, interesting leads which I have just scanned quickly for the moment and will come back to you later. One or two are familiar I think, possibly in other guises, if the accompanying music is any indication.
Talk to you in a while,
Tony
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Hello Lyn,
Delighted to hear from you.
Hopefully we can exchange details for your "Parkhurst Boy".......the information I hold on most of the 123 boys who were transported to NZ comes from two prime sources:
(1) The Parkhurst Prison Register 1838-1864 (National
Archives HO24/15); and
(2) Internal Affairs 1, Archives NZ, which is a series of
correspondence with the Colonial Secretary from
1842 to 1844/45 regarding their Apprenticeships
and conduct.
Please let me have his name and I will draw up the details for you......for each of the boys I prepare a Biography, covering (1) and (2) above and brief details of life after transportation, for example, marriage, children, work, any instances of re-offending, death (Obituary Notices if available) but, most of all, I like the descendants to include whatever they think important.
I look forward to the name.
For now
Tony
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Hi Tony,
Seems like you might have more info than me!! :)
I do not have access to the NZ Archives.
Some of what I have I am pretty certain of, but it is unverified, due to limited finances and lack of mobility. But here is what I have:-
Isaac Eggerton somewhere b. between 6/6/1826 & 14/11/1826. Father James Eggerton, mother Unknown nee Webster (no Christian name given).
Tried & convicted of Larceny at Central Criminal Court (Old Bailey) on 6.6.1840, aged 13years. Sentenced to 7 years.
Moved to Parkhurst Prison.
Arrived aboard the Mandarin on 14/11/1843 aged 17yrs., trained as a Cooper & Shoemaker. Free on Arrival. Disembarked Auckland. (Believe that until he died he still had scars on his ankles from the shackles)
On 16/6/1849 Isaac married ary Kerns, daughter of James Kerns & Mary (nee Breen) at Auckalnd.
1852 - Isaac listed in the "Roll of Early Settlers in Auckland Province before 1852" (pg. 72)
In 1881, Isaac is listed on the Electoral Roll as a Wood Dealer, who owned 3 cottages (freehold) in Coburg Street, Auckland. Land in Coburg Street would have been valuable even in those days, being that Coburg St (now Kitchener St) backs onto & runs parallel with Queen Street, the main street of Auckland. He still owned this land in 1893, as per the Electoral Rolls.
As far as I have been able to ascertain, Isaac & Mary had at least 5 children....James, John (b. 8/8/1854), William (my g-grandfather), Elizabeth & Richard (d. 1866 at Auckland).
I have no idea at this satge what happened to Mary, but in 1875, Isaac married Harriet Walling, a widow, at Auckland.
Isaac died in Aucland on 1/5/1897.
That is it! Not a lot, but I hope that it helps.
I have no idea where Isaac was born, so have not been able to trace this family any further back than him.
Hoping that you can help me break through that wall. And I would really be interested in anything at all that you may have on Isaac, before or after his arrival in NZ.
I am really looking forward to hearing from you.
God bless you
Regards
Lyn
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Tony!
On December 26, 1838, Robert Woollcombe, the prison governor, arrived at Parkhurst with a team of taskmasters and the first 102 boys.
http://www.isle-of-wight-fhs.co.uk/jnindex1.htm
WOOLCOMBE, Robert Capt, first Governor of Parkhurst Prison 8 2
Annie
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Good Evening Annie,
I think it was "Bearkat" who first introduced me the IOWFHS and the Index to the Journals.
In fact I have written to Mrs Brenda Dodgson, the Society's Secretary, especially about obtaining copies of various articles, and am awaiting her reply.....I will let you know the outcome.
Incidentally, I have not forgotten all the other "leads" you posted and will report shortly. But at the moment I have been otherwise busy burning sackcloth to make more "Ashes"!!
For now
Tony
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Tony - are you interested in this man? - do you have him already? I have a tad more on him if you're interested !
Samuel Caporn
Caporn arrived in Fremantle on 20 August 1842 aboard the 'Simon Taylor' which had departed London on 29 April 1842.
He was paid £5 for his duties as schoolteacher for the duration of the voyage and it is believed he was the guardian of the 18 Parkhurst boys. These boys varied in ages between 13 and 16 years and were being removed from the Parkhurst Prison under a conditional pardon from the Crown. (this pardon was forwarded to the Governor of the Colony by the same vessel).
Born in Perth, Scotland on 29 April 1794, the son of Rev. Joshua Caporn MA and Catherine Goode of Tengarick (Tingwich?) Bucks
http://www.webace.com.au/~smidgers/fam02536.htm
Annie ::)
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Good Afternoon Annie,
I had forgotten about this particular website and Erica Smith's Family History Project.......thank you for re-introducing me to it as I had intended trawling through all the entries to tie-up any "Parkhurst Boys", but the reference got lost.
The address has now been added to "my favourites", which is what I should have done originally!!
For now
Tony
-
So Tony - are you and Lyn going to keep us in suspense about Isaac ? or is that not for public knowledge ?? just thought I'd ask ::) ::) ::)
Annie
-
Hello Annie
The "Parkhurst Boy" Lyn was researching, Isaac Eggerton, was already quite well known to me and for whom I had a fairly comprehensive Biography on file......I gave her a Word document download and with agreement passed her name to other "correspondent" descendants should they wish to contact her.
Tony
-
Tony!
I was just being nosey :P
because I got all excited when Lyn replied - thought maybe you were on to something!! - should have known .......... ::) you're always a step ahead!
Annie
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Annie,
I don't mind you being a "sticky beak", after all that is research is about and I get excited too!
But, sadly, although it is good to help someone else with their researches, as in the case of Isaac Eggerton where the Biography was quite extensive, I am always a little disappointed when it is not "new".........particularly New Zealand where information is so difficult to unearth.
One NZ lady has been very helpful over the past couple of months concerning two Brothers, Thomas and Isaac BURNAND, transported together to Auckland, and she commented that she had "....found a definite attitude to 'convict' research". We know everything there is to know about Isaac but virtually nothing about Thomas!!!
By the way, if I can download and post my file so that everyone can read the Biography for Isaac Eggerton is there a system?
For now,
Tony
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Tony!
"Sticky beak" says - try this !!
http://www.iue.it/VL/history/bib/nz.html
it's a lot to go through - but there is reference to Parkhurst Boys and some other stuff you maybe able to use!! I don't know if the library can help you access some of these books - I hope so !!
Annie
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Good Evening Annie,
"Berlin-Bob" has suggested PDF etc. for sending a copy of a Biography or, failing all else, the old "cut and paste" system. I am nothing if not conservative so having cut Isaac Eggerton's Biography, minus the citations , I am now going to try and paste it.
Hope eveything works !!!
Tony
[/bEGGERTON, Isaac (aka in NZ as EGGENTON)
Little is known of Isaac Eggerton’s early life, except he was born between c1826/1827 and his parents were James Eggenton and Marguerite (or Margaret) Webster.
He was committed to appear at the Central Criminal Court (the Old Bailey) on 06/041840 accused of Larceny, found guilty and sentenced to 7 years transportation. Then aged 13 he had been employed as a Coach Harness Plater. He was held temporarily at Newgate Prison and on 25/05/1840 transferred to Parkhurst Prison, where his Gaoler’s Report stated he had been ‘In House of Correction previous’, was single and could read and write.
He was eventually transported to New Zealand aboard the “Mandarin” on 21/06/1843 as a Free Immigrant, classified trade being Cooper and Shoemaker, and disembarked at Auckland on 16/10/1843. Nothing is known about him immediately after his arrival other than oblique remarks quoted by Buddee from a Report (uncited) by the Guardian of Government Apprentices (David Rough):
‘The Free Immigrants who arrived by the Mandarin in November
have been offered food, clothing and house room by the government.
The greater number, however, prefer to be at perfect liberty and refuse
to attend to the regulations requiring them to work (with the government)
while waiting engagement. They are now dispersed about the country.’
However, he is later mentioned in two prison records contained in the Internal Affairs Series for 1844 and 1845:
(1) ‘Return of Prisoners Confined in the Gaol at Auckland, New Zealand,
Sentenced to Hard Labour for the week ending Friday the Nineteenth day of July 1844.
Name: Isaac Egginton (sic);
When confined: 18 March 1844;
Trade: Parkhurst Boy;
Sentence: 6 months;
How employed: 3 in Fort St. & 3 mending shoes;
Working character: Good’
(NB: There is NO offence specified in the Return)
(2) ‘Weekly Gaol Return 27 September 1845
Prisoners in Gaol: Isaac Eggenton (inter alia)
Date of Imprisonment: 26 July 1845;
Trade or Calling: Labourer;
Age: 18;
Charge: Vagrancy;
Sentence: 3 months;
Date of Sentence: 26 July 1845;
How employed: Working in Queen Street.’
At age 21 (22) he became a Boatman and on 16/06/1849 married Mary Kerns at St Patrick’s Church, Auckland…….she was 16 years of age and the daughter of one of the New Zealand Fencibles, James Kerns and his wife, Mary (nee Breen), who arrived in Auckland in 1847. Together they had 9 children:
(1) Elizabeth born 1849;
(2) William c1850;
(3) James 1853;
(4) John 1854 (presumably died young);
(5) John 1856;
(6) Walter 1858;
(7) Frederick 1859 (presumably died young);
(8) Frederick 1861; and
(9) Margaret 1863.
In 1852 he was listed in the “Roll of Early Settlers in Auckland Province before 1852”, p.72.
Isaac remained a Boatman until 1863 when he became a Mariner and owner of freehold land in Union Street, Auckland. This date also sees him as a Militia Man. In 1864 he moved to Coburg Street, was the owner of three adjoining cottages and a further adjoining property where he housed his firewood yard. According to the Electoral Rolls for 1881 and 1893 he still owned this land and in the former he was listed as a Wood Dealer.
Mary died in 1874, aged 40, with disease of the liver.
Isaac was remarried on 10/03/1875 to twice-married Harriet Walling (previously married to John Saunders from Lower Matakana, New Zealand on 09/04/1850 …...her maiden name was Green). They continued to live at Coburg Street.
Isaac died on 01/05/1897, aged 70, of chronic gout, cirrhosis of the liver and signs of senile decay. His probate showed he owned another block of freehold property in Quay Street.
Harriet died in Auckland on 21/04/1901 aged 69.
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Larceny
The unlawful taking and removing of another's personal property with the intent of permanently depriving the owner - theft.
You know Tony - I can't imagine a 13 year old boy these days - being sent away from his home and family for 7 years - for theft!! Just imagine the thoughts going through that young man's head!! and then being offered (condesendingly no doubt)
food, clothing and house room by the government.
No wonder most of them " prefered to be at perfect liberty and refused to attend to the regulations requiring them to work with the government while waiting for a job " - after all that time on the ship - and the sickness they saw - and the bad treatment they saw .......!!
I am very glad that after a slow start - "Our Isaac " turned his life around - God love him! - how amazing that he did - when you think about what life offered him!sounds like he drank quite a bit - and Lyn said he had the marks of the shackles all his life - I wonder how we would react - if put in the same position ...... ?
Makes you think!!
Annie
http://www.nzfenciblesociety.org.nz/
http://www.zealand.org.nz/history.htm
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Hi Annie,
Thanks for your interest in Isaac. Your comment about the scars from the shackles, is one of the reasons that I was keen to find out about him. When my Grandmother told me them years ago, my thoughts were much the same as yours. What a punishment...you carry it for life! What a stigma...no hiding it.
It was not until a few weeks ago that I found out about his trial at Old Bailey & how young he was and what he was charged with. He seems so cruel to me...he was only a kid. It is hard to believe that he spent 4 years in Parkhurst prison, before deportation. Even that is excessive by todays standards.
Mind you, when I was looking into this, I came across an 11yr old boy who as sentenced to 10yrs & deportation for Larceny, too, so maybe Isaac go off lightly. Even Isaac's sentence of 3 months for vagrancy, seems a bit steep, doesn't it?
I never knew, until Tony sent me the Biography, that Isaac still got into trouble after he was here in NZ. And, yes it does look like he was abit of a drinker...Mary too, maybe. I am glad that he did well eventually, and I wondered if it was Mary's influence that kept him out of trouble, although it does appear that it was a "shotgun" wedding..and she was only 16!!. Or maybe it was his father-in-law that kept him in line! I wish that I could have known him...he sounds like an interesting character.
I can never thank Tony enough for the added info he supplied me, as now Isaac seems very real...not just a kind of ghost running around in my mind, as he has been for years.
I guess that I will have to start saving for his death certificate, to see if I can find out where he came from.
I am just disappointed that the "cousin" that Tony gave my email address to, has not contacted me yet. I am checking my mail, every 5 minutes in anticipation. I know that i am impatient, but I am so excited to know that there are Eggerton rellies out there. I never knew any existed.
Now, I want to be the "Sticky Beak" What is the URL for Erica Smith's family Project that tony spoke to you about? If it is relevant in any way to the Parkhurst Boys, I would love to have a look.
Bless you
Lyn
-
This is the site Lyn!
http://www.webace.com.au/~smidgers/index.htm
There's quite a bit about her own family of course - but there's bits and pieces of other information in there eg . the family tree of the Guardian that was with the boys Samuel Caporn
Caporn arrived in Fremantle on 20 August 1842 aboard the 'Simon Taylor' which had departed London on 29 April 1842. He was paid £5 for his duties as schoolteacher for the duration of the voyage and it is believed he was the guardian of the 18 Parkhurst boys. These boys varied in ages between 13 and 16 years and were being removed from the Parkhurst Prison under a conditional pardon from the Crown. (this pardon was forwarded to the Governor of the Colony by the same vessel).
All fascinating stuff!!
Annie
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Hi Annie,
Thanks for that. I wondered if it was that one but was unsure as you had sent Tony so many URL's. I figure that if it was worth him adding it to his Favorites, that it might be worth reading. Haven't gone there yet, but will shortly.
But I have great news.......I have just heard from my "cousin"...no more waiting and she seems as excited as me bout the contact!
Tony has been a real blessing to me.
Bless you.
Lyn
-
Oh Lyn!
That's great! - I'm so happy for you !
Please let us know when " you two " find out more !!
keep in touch!!
Annie ;)
-
Thanks Annie!
I will keep you updated.
Bless you
Lyn
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Tony!
here's some more !
http://thc.worldarcstudio.com/classroom_20040211_JB/gcse/crime_punishment2_industrial.htm
This is the Warder of Parkhurst
http://www.kenscott.com/prisons/prisoncareer.htm
http://www.fremantleprison.com.au/history/history3.cfm
http://www.eatongenealogy.com/blackeaton8.html
Annie
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Good Afternoon Annie,
Glad I was able to help Lyn, both in terms of Isaac Eggerton's life history and the contact with another Great Great Granddaughter, Desma.......they should have a lot to talk about as the family tree is extensive.
Difficult though it is to remain detached and dispassionate, having to remind oneself continually that these "Parkhurst Boys" were "FELONS" and quite accomplished despite the young ages, you do get caught up in the life histories, especially where there are photographs. Western Australia has been exceptional in this sense and my files are almost like "albums"......good material, though, and persuasive in terms of research for new knowledge. The balance at the moment is that of the transported "Parkhurst Boys" I have managed to research 80% became "successful" citizens downunder, and the remaining 20% were "recidivists", of whom 5 (to date) were hanged for murder or attempted murder. Having said that it also seems that the average number of children born to each "Parkhurst Boy" was at least 8.
But sadly I still need more response from NZ and a little more from Victoria (Port Phillip) would be welcome.
Take care
Tony
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Hi Tony!
I know what you're saying!! -
I work in Mental Health and it's a similar thing - there is really nothing you can do to make them "better" and backgrounds etc. all make a difference - but the challenge comes one person at a time and if you can make a difference in one person's life - you've had some measure of success !
Have to remember that their educational level was probably not very high - they didn't have many interests to keep them occupied - hence the number of children born :P :P
If we keep this posting alive - and not let it get too far down the page - we'll have a better chance of attracting others and maybe they will have the information you need!! I hope so!!
Have a great day!!
Annie
http://www.convictcreations.com/history/index.htm
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/cguide/pr/psofcon.htm
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Hi Tony!
Lyn's been trying to find you!
Hope you're doing well - give us a "heads up" when you get a chance!
Annie :) :)
-
Hello Annie
Things are moving apace here.......completed about 80 Biographies in the past month thanks to a lady in Tasmania researching "Convict Records" etc. for me.
Hope everything fares well with you.
Incidentally, both Lyn and also Desma Howarth have my email addresses.
Take care
Tony
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Hi Tony,
Sorry about the misunderstanding...It was really Annie that I was trying to get hold of to give her an update on Desma & my chats. What I couldn't find was this post to reply...after nimerous attemps to get to the right place, I gave up & sent her a personal message.
Thanks again for putting me in touch with Desma....she is a font of information.
Pleased to see that you may get your quota of biographies done in time...you seem to be flying through them! Well done.
All the best with your research on the others.
Regards
Lyn
-
Hello Annie
Things are moving apace here.......completed about 80 Biographies in the past month thanks to a lady in Tasmania researching "Convict Records" etc. for me.
Hope everything fares well with you.
Incidentally, both Lyn and also Desma Howarth have my email addresses.
Take care
Tony
Tony!
I'm so glad to hear the good news about your biographies ! - good for you!
don't forget to let us know how you're doing every now and again -
you have quite a few people "routing for you" you know!!
Regards
Annie
-
I have started reading this as one of my ancestor i believe was a Parkhurst Boy. Apparently he got sent to WA then went back to England got married and brought the family out to NewZealand His name being JOHN WEBB
I was diappointed though when it finished. Very very interesting reading.
Hope everyone everywhere has a safe and contented Christmas
Vanessa
NewZealand
-
Hello Vanessa,
Delighted to read the posting on your ancestor, John WEBB.
I certainly have details of his life history up and until he left Western Australia and then returned to England. He is actually the first case I have come across of any of the Parkhurst Boys "willingly re-emigrating" down under and, consequently, he is quite important to my research. I am quite anxious to exchange details with you.
Do please let me have your email address and I shall send you the part-Biography I have completed, to which you can whatever details you have.
I look forward to your response.
My best wishes for Christmas and the New Year.
Tony Cocks
-
Hi Tony thank you for your reply
Vanessa
NewZealand
and thanks Annie :)
-
Hi Vanessa and Welcome to RootsChat!
You might want to take off your email address on your post - because of "spamming"!!
but you can send Tony a Personal Message with it - click on the scroll underneath his name and then click on " to send a message!!
Have a wonderful Christmas!
Annie :) :) :)
-
Good Evening Annie,
Excellent news from Vanessa, especially as John Webb returned to England after expiry of his sentence and then re-emigrated to New Zealand........ a "first" in my research. I am keen to learn what happened after he reached New Zealand.
Talk to you soon but, in the meantime, have a very Happy Christmas and my best wishes for 2006.
Regards
Tony
-
Hi Tony!
Thank you for your good wishes ....!
A Wonderful and Blessed Christmas to you and your family!!
Annie :)
-
Hello Annie
Vanessa has kindly given me a potted history of her ancestor, John Webb........and gratefully, from my point of view, another Biography completed, although unusual being he returned to England after expiry of his sentence and then "re-emigrated"!!
May I wish you a very Happy New Year and a successful 2006 for RootsChat.
Tony
-
Hi Tony.
You might well already have this snippet, but I don't have time to check through all your pages:
From 'Shipping Intelligence and BMDs', from various NZ newspapers:
Friday 31 March 1843
On the 12th inst., Dr Lee amputated the forefinger of a youth, who called himself William Harrington, close to the hand, or metacarpal bone. He stated that he was a free emigrant; but it turns out (from the Police Report) that his real name is William Smith, and that he is one of the Parkhurst boys. He has told an incredible story regarding the accident; but it is connected that it occurred when Mr D'Oyley's house was entered a few weeks ago; a pistol having then exploded, and the robber leaving behind him traces of blood.
Manui
-
Happy New Year Manui,
Thank you for the extract......I believe it came from the "New Zealand Colonist and Port Nicholson Advertiser" and discusses the wrongdoings of William Smith (alias William Harlington) under the heading "A Parkhurst Seedling".
Someone very kindly gave me a tip about such newspapers being online a little while ago and it has been a useful experience trawling through the various editions plucking out snippets of information such as the above.
Once again my thanks and best wishes for 2006.
Tony
-
I've lost track of all the posts on this thread.
Have you looked at The Times archives for references of boys sent to Parkhurst?
-
I would love to be able to visit the British Library at Colindale and research "The Times" archives.......sadly, expense (without funding!!) rules out any visits.
If there is any on-line access to the archives though please let me know.
-
Have a look at this thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,86255.30.html
Do Southampton or Hampshire Libraries have access?
Have been having a look. There are reports of court cases and several articles about boys being sent to Parkhurst (and the cost!)
-
Thanks for the information.
Certainly Winchester Library did not have access the last I visited, but will try Southampton tomorrow.
Incidentally, via Tasmania, I have had access to The Times Digital Archive 1785-1985 and extracted the 19 citations listed for Parkhurst Prison, which include running costs of the prison......but I would like to get access to the complete publishing history if that is possible to read "Leader Columns", "Letters to the Editor" etc.
-
I think The Times Digital Archive 1785 - 1985 is all you get on-line.
Think you have to be quite imaginative with your search terms.
-
Hi Tony,
I haven't been following your thread for some time so you may already be aware of this resource which I've just found mentioned in The NZ Genealogist issue of January 2005.
You're probably aware of David ROUGH's letters held by Archives NZ, but are you aware of Paul BUDDEE's list of Parkhurst Boys' name changes held at the Alexander Turnbull Library, Wellington (Ref: P q365.34 BUD 1985)
Regards, riley
-
Hello Riley,
Thank you for the information.....I was not aware that Paul Buddee had published aka's for the Parkhurst Boys arriving in Auckland. Fortunately I did manage to obtain copies of David Rough's correspondence from the NZ Archives in Wellington (Internal Affairs, Series 1), including his periodic "Returns" from which I have been able to identify each boy.
Internal Affairs Series 1 is marvellous material !!!
My regards
Tony
-
Hi Tony.
I have been watching this thread as it has progressed over the last few months and wonder, if after reading your reply (message 35) where you said that there were still 116 names to try and find a link to, that if you list those 116 names { and or the names taken after release } you may find some NZ Genealogist's who may assist you to find a link to their family tree. I am sure that some of these lads would have tried very hard to hide their past, if and when, they married and / or made something of their lives etc. I am sure that not all of them would have re-offended! Although from the information already tendered in this thread most found it hard not to!. Some NZ reseachers may have no idea of, or have even considered that their Great G/Fathers past could hide such an interesting and intriguing topic of research. I am sure that I, for one, and many others would certainly keep the list of "Parkhurst" names beside us as as wander along searching for our own elusive family clues in the archival records of various libraries and other research facilities in NZ. If you have the time, a list of the 116 names may provide a positive responce. And I for one would certainly love to see more information forthcoming about this most interesting part of NZ history.
regards Colin
-
Hello Colin,
Thank you for dropping me a line.
I have to some extent almost "given up" on extending my research of the 123 original Parkhurst Boys disembarked at Auckland. Despite advertising in so many various ways via genealogical outlets etc. the response has been very disappointing.
Your suggestion about publishing the names does seem very practical/practicable but rather than identify the names here researchers may like, for example, to visit the website http://pearlspad.net.nz/ParkhurstBoys.htm compiled by Janet Martin where all the boys are identified from both the "St.George" and the "Mandarin". One of the most interesting aspects of the website is Janet Martin's comment that "Many of the Parkhurst Boy's descendants became distinguished citizens of Auckland". This gave me some hope that there was quite a lot of information available, but that has not proved the case, and sadly I have tried to contact Janet Martin without success. Possibly the "dark chapter in the story of NZ" that she refers to as unpublicised remains very much so 160 years later.
I am very grateful.........hopefully your interest will prove a catalyst.
My best wishes and thanks
Tony
-
Hello Tony.
I was very re-miss in not re-reading all the previous post's prior to sending my last post or I would have seen & remebered your earlier referance to "Pearls" site. I have now copied the list in full.
Now to your Text. " Given Up" is not a term we Kiwi's use. The brick wall is only so thick. If you hit it hard enough somtimes a little light shows through 8), I am sure that we can find something. When you look at the times this thread has been viewed I am sure it will have stirred more than just myself into wondering " what if "
I note you still have a year to complete so leave this with us and we will see what we can find.
Regards and best wish's
Colin
-
Could the NZ Herald be tempted/bullied into running a human interest story? Anyone have any contacts there?
Just a thought! :)
Cheers
K.
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Hi Koromo,
Good thought!. I do know a correspondent who writes a regular column for the Herald. I will twist his ear to try find a Feature Writer contact name within the Herald who may want to take up the challenge.
Regards
Colin
-
Hi Tony,
Now having just re-read all the post's in this thread, I note that in message 35 you said that you have full or partial Biographies on 17 of the boys that came to NZ. Rather than trying to re-invent the spoon over here in NZ you may wish to list those names so we can concentrate on the un-known rather than the known or partial known names to save on time and duplication
Regards Colin
-
Hello Colin,
You have just edged me into thanking Koromo for the suggestion....it could be a great way of breaching the "brick wall"!! Indeed, if the "NZ Herald" is as influential as "The West Australian" I could find myself inundated with replies. However, I should qualify that by saying I was also interviewed on the Radio Talk Perth 6PR programme "The Way We Were" at the same time as my request for information appeared in the newspaper.
The Biographies so far completed are:
ASTLE, William
BOTTOMLEY, George
BURNAND, Isaac
BURNAND, Thomas
COLEY, James (not to be mistaken for Joseph)
DOWIE, Henry Butler
EDGE, George
EGGERTON, Isaac
HARVEY, Thomas
HOLLIS, William
MAHONEY, John (aka LEE, John)
MINHINNICK, John
PIZEY, James
RAMPLING, James
ROSE, Edwin
SMITH, William (aka HARLINGTON).......he was
transported on the "St George" and not to be
confused with William Smith from the "Mandarin".
WOODGATE, William Robert
The importance of NZ is that alongside Western Australia they were the first "colonies" to receive Parkhurst Boys but the differing treatment of them was quite astonishing. The following is a snippet from "The Times" in 1846:
"Some time back 50 Parkhurst boys, between
the ages of 18 and 20, were sent out, but here
(NZ), as in Western Australia, they turned out
so badly in point of morals that they were
injurious to the colony"
This is really a distortion of the truth as far as WA is concerned in that they were so pleased with the Parkhurst Boys, like Oliver Twist, they asked for more!!!
I think the answer may be found in the fact that NZ had more than full employment whereas WA had a labour shortage.
I really am grateful for the offers of help..... any information I can unearth which tells the true story of the Parkhurst Boys in NZ as intimated by Janet Martin on "Pearls" website will be marvellous.
Thank you, Colin, and you too Koromo. If you need any manuscript etc. please let me know.
Kind regards
Tony
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Hi Tony,
Thanks for clarifying the names of those whom you know about. Now down to some serious work. I have left a message with my friend who writes for the Herald and will hopefully hear from him shortly. ( given he's on a break for a week )
In a way I wish I could tie one of the names to my research, seems rather a shame that I can't say "I have a skeleton in the closet!."
Will away for now but be assured I will do my best to get your request into the media somehow.
Regards Colin
-
Hello Colin,
I wonder if anything ever developed with your enquiries?
Regards
Tony
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Hi Tony,
No responce from my send in as yet. I did receive a confirmation of receipt so assume they are either researching or have shelved. I will send off a query and see if they can let me know the status and let you know.
Regards
Colin
-
Hi Tony
I know that you feel you have along way to go with this enquiry.
We have new Rootschatters joining all the time and many of them find us because they have used internet search engines. You have listed the names that you are interested in and presumably have explored the resources that are mentioned on this site.
I hope this reply will serve as a reminder to those with NZ expertise that they might be able to help you.
What progress have you made? Have you identified any specific resources that rootschatters in NZ could help you with?
If, after a while, you still don;t have much response you could try posting again for a specific name or a specific resource, but please always refer back to this thread so that we avoid duplication of effort.
Good luck with your research!
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
-
Hello Arranroots,
Thank you for your response and words of advice.
I have tried most of the accepted genealogical pathways and there are seemingly few resources left for me to research the "missing" 100 Parkhurst Boys........even several correspondents in NZ who have done some delving on my behalf have had to admit defeat. It is extremely strange and, sadly too, quite a few enquiries have gone unanswered. But that is to be expected in a situation where you are dealing with an antecedent who has a chequered past!!!
Interestingly on this point, a member of the State Records Office in Western Australia told me that in that particular State attitudes changed in the 1960s when the then Premier, David Brand, became the first community leader in WA to openly discuss his convict ancestry. I must admit I have reaped the benefits, because out of 234 Parkhurst Boys transported to the Swan River Colony I have managed to complete 150 Biographies (life histories).
Once again thanks for your help
Best wishes for the coming Season.
Tony ::)
-
Not sure if you have this link
http://members.lycos.co.uk/s0uthbury/parklinkspage.htm
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Thanks Bearkat,
Sadly, I think I have visited every "link" imaginable but unearthing descendants of the Parkhurst Boys in NZ is almost impossible.
This thread has been visited over 8,000 times but, for the 123 boys disembarked in Auckland in 1842 and 1843, there have been only two positive results. Never mind.
Thank you again for the thought.
BAC
-
I have followed this thread with interest.
I wonder if the response you have received is typical for finding the descendants of 123 immigrants to New Zealand in 1840-50.
-
Hello Bearkat,
Overall there were approximately 1,700 ex-Parkhurst juveniles transported to Australia/NZ between 1838-1864 and I have now completed Biographies for 647 of them towards my PhD.
I cannot relate this completion rate to NZ and although I have "advertised" widely through NZSG, RootsWeb, RootsChat, Australian Family Tree Connections, Auckland and Wellington Libraries etc. it has not achieved any breakthrough in family history terms.
It is strange and I can only think that visiting NZ may be the eventual answer......which finances forbid anyway!!!
BAC
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Hi Tony
Just wondering if Colin (who said he had a contact at the NZ Herald) knew how to get you an interview on National Radio's Nine to Noon programme.
They frequently do extended interviews by phone with overseas people.
Also with the NZSG Annual Conference coming up in Wellington at Queen's Birthday weekend it would be timely.
Bren.
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Hello Bren,
I did actually appear on Radio Talk Perth 6PR, the Steve Gordon "The Way We Were" programme, about 18 months ago and the response was astonishing from Western Australia.
Any suggestions about "Nine to Noon" or the NZSG Conference which has touched upon the subject before.
Tony
-
Hi Tony
That's what I was thinking as National Radio has coverage from Cape Reinga down to Bluff and I think over to the Chattam Islands.
It's for those of us who do not want to listen to constant adverts or Talkback radio!!
Hopefully Colin will check this thread again....
Or, do I gather that you have a contact at the NZSG? They might be able to organise it for you in conjunction with the conference.
Bren
-
Good Morning Bren,
Unfortunately I have no contacts at the NZSG.
At the moment writing my dissertation is beginning to take precedence, leaving me little time for concentrated research in one particular area........reluctantly. I think I shall leave the thread open for the time being, just in case so to speak!!
Thanks for helping.
Tony ???
-
Hi Bren & Tony,
Have just caught up with the thread. I must admit that I have been remiss in following up our last conversation by personal email Tony, Health and curently trying to sell a business taking priority, I will try to get some action from one of my media contacts, unfortunately NZer's don't seem to have the same interest as Aussies in claiming a convict in their Genealogy Heritage. Will be in touch
Regards
Colin
-
Thanks Colin,
Just take care of yourself healthwise and from the business aspect, too.........I share your feelings about NZ'ers and convict genealogy, which is a pity and probably good reason not to pursue the subject vigorously.
Incidentally, on RootsWeb several weeks ago I was taken to task for suggesting that "convicts" (even in the shape of the Parkhurst Boys) had landed in Auckland, implying that NZ was a Penal Colony. Of course it never was, but having said that it was a favourite "bolt hole" for absconders from Sydney for instance.
For now
Tony
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Hi Tony,
i've read this thread fully in the past and just came back to see if there was any more updates.
I can't give you any info....you probably know more about my ancestor William Astle than i do ::) :).
what i was wondering is whether your biographies will be avaliable to read/buy once you have finished your degree?.
i would be interested in filling in any blanks about him...especially where he came from in England.
all the best
kiwirach.
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Hi Tony,
I have just come back to see if there has been any more progress. It looks like everyone has deserted you.
Over the last few days, I have been reading Papers Past and am now beginning to wonder how many of these boys actually got to stay in NZ.
On Papers Past, I came across several reports which appeared to be more minutes type reports, where a magistrate has reported in reference to Parkhurst Boys appearing in court, things like..."All but one have been transported" and 'they have been exiled from this Colony".
I would have no idea where to find out more details about this.
I guess that if this actually happened, I am lucky that Isaac got to stay, considering his unfavourable start here!! LOL!
Blessings
Lyn
-
Hello Lyn,
Thanks for keeping a watching brief.
Sadly things are extremely quiet on the response front, although the posting itself has had 10,589 "hits".........it is a very strange ratio that overall I have only had 3 positive replies.
What I find even stranger is that people who publish their "Family Trees" on Ancestry.com etc., and provide email addresses or contact facilities through Ancestry, never reply. So far I have unearthed about 30 ex-Parkhurst juvenile offenders who made successes of their lives and have written in vain to the addresses supplied. These are situations in which descendants, to my way of thinking anyway, should feel a sense a pride that despite adversity their ancestors "won through". My dissertation will in effect be a testament to these ancestors.
Never mind.......I can only carry on with the research.
For now
Tony
-
Hi Tony,
So sorry that your research is at such a dead end...bit like my tree at the moment.
When I found out about Isaac, I was more amused than anything!
I know what you mean about people not responding to emails, even though they have left and email address therefore inviting contact. It is extremely frustrating.
I have spent today wondering where on earth boys would have been transported to or sent into exile from NZ. I have absolutely no idea. Nor have I any clues as to who may know. It is really bugging me. I would love to find out how many and which ones were treated this way.
Keeping my fingers crossed for you that some new info will come your way real soon.
Blessings
Lyn
-
Hello Lyn,
My research in fact carries on apace.......so much so that, although the accepted figure for "Parkhurst Boys" transported is 1,499, the reality is closer to 1,900 when tracing those that were initially transferred from Parkhurst Prison to other prisons, for instance, Millbank, Portland, Portsmouth and Dartmoor, for subsequent transportation as adult convicts.
In truth latterly I have dealing with at least an increase of 25% to that aspect of my research being conducted "down under"............admittedly this makes rhe 123 that went to Auckland look small by comparison but they are an especial category and do need finite research. Yes, frustrating is probably the right description to the response.
For now
Tony
-
Hello Tony
I am not sure how your relentless task is going? Or if you may have finished, but I may have some information on another Parkhurst Boy for you. I am a descendant of John Saunders who came to NZ on the St George aged 14. He was my Great Great Great Grandfather.
Let me know if you would like the information.
Regards
Tracy Saunders
-
Hello Tony and Tracy
Coincidentally I just did a pm to Lynbee yesterday 21/1/08 re the same? John Saunders, as Harriet Green who was named as Isaac Eggerton's second wife married a John Saunders 9 Apr 1850 in Auckland New Zealand, her first husband of three.
My source of info is from Ancestors of Robert Scott including Scott's from Tipperary, Ireland, RootsWeb.com
The Green family tree is of interest to me as I am a descendant of Harriet's brother John, and the name Isaac Eggerton registered.
Info gives John Saunders born 1828 in Lower Matakana, New Zealand but I have found inaccuracies on 'our page' and the birth year is correct it matches up. Sorry if I have jumped to conclusions.
Lynbee not on line for a month it appears.
I've been catching up with a lot of old threads in 'spare' moments and I found the Parkhurst thread interesting reading. Just sorry Tony you didn't get more response from helpful NZ descendants.
Regards
Mare
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Hello Tracy and Mare,
Great news about John SAUNDERS.......I have some reasonable information for him up until 1842/1843 which I shall be delighted to let you have. This takes into account his arrival in Auckland and his immediate "Apprenticeship" arranged by the Harbour Master, David Rough, who was appointed to look after the "Parkhurst Boys".
I have sent you both PM's with my email address so that you can let me have yours. I can then send you a copy of my Biography (unfinished!!) which is in Word.
For the moment,
Regards
Tony
-
Hello,
I'm a newby here, and I know this thread has been quiet for a while, but I'm working on an education pack featuring a Parkhurst boy and I wondered if anyone had any material on him?
He is William Tuck, convicted at Norwich in 1839 aged around 8 and transported on the St George in 1842.
Anything about his subsequent life much appreciated.
Norwich HEART
www.heritagecity.org
-
It's a great site Norwich HEART ... Welcome
... and this has been a great thread, thanks to Tony
I had a quick look on NZ BDM site http://bdmhistoricalrecords.identityservices.govt.nz/home/
A couple of possibilities
There is an 1866 marriage 1866/3575 to a Mary Smith to a Tuck with no first name recorded
There is an 1888 death 1888/309 William Tuck aged 60 years ( b. 1828 ) :-\
I am aware via a friend of a big Tuck family reunion she went to many years ago, her husband's line but not their name. Also when I visited the Shortland Cemetery in Thames a couple of years ago there was a family replacing the plaque for the 100 anniversary for a Tuck matriarch. Hopefully you'll get some good definite leads from this site.
:) mare
-
Thanks Mare,
b 1828 is not that far off for the records I do have - would make him 11 not 8 when convicted, but it's listed as 'around' and I should think he was keen to seem as young as possible! I will follow up.
Norwich HEART
-
Hello Norwich HEART,
I can provide a reasonable Biography for William TUCK up to 30/06/1843 when he was quoted as age 15, thus making his DOB closer to 1828 rather than 1831........"Parkhurst Boys" were not beyond telling slight fibs now and again to avoid confusion with being "adults" and harsher treatment.
There are one or two possibilities about his life down under, marriage to Mary FARRELL(?) in 1854 and his subsequent death in 1888 aged 60, for instance. However, it would be helpful if you could confirm his parents as Henry and Louisa, as the details from the 1841 England Census of course are taken inside Parkhurst Prison and not with his parents.
Certainly I am more than happy to let you have a copy of his Biography I hold in my database, but you will need to confirm your email address to send the WORD document.............please use the "Personal Message" facility.
For the moment, my regards
Tony Cocks
-
Hi BAC3
Well this is my 3rd post, so I should now have access to PM and I'll contact you, however it might be difficult to id William Tuck in Norwich pre his arrest. He was presented in court without reference to his parents, and we rather assumed he was orphaned/abandoned. I will have a go.
Many thanks
Norwich HEART
-
Hi Tony,
I've just found your ongoing chat re parkhurst boys - and wonder if my GGGG Uncle, Edward Carter, is the same person as on the Parkhurst Boys list. This seems to be the only entry in the 1841 census that ticks all the boxes. And I cannot find him in 1851 at all, possibly because he is not in the country. Then he is in the Royal Navy in 1861 (Malta) before turning up in 1871 at his sisters house in Sheppey, Kent.
He was born in the Isle of Sheppey, Kent - abt 1828, so would have been 14 in 1842 which ties up with the Parkhurst Boys data.
Do you think this may be the same person?
Jan
-
Hello Jan,
Delighted to hear from you.
Certainly there was a "Parkhurst Boy", Edward CARTER, born c1829, tried at the Old Bailey, London, on 02/03/1840 and sentenced to transportation for 7 years. He arrived in Auckland aboard the St. George in November 1842
However, I may have to disappoint you, because you mention the 1841 England Census and unless this related to the specific return made by Parkhurst Prison then it will not be the same Edward CARTER. I have a reasonable amount of information that I can happily let you have if your GGGGrand Uncle does prove a match though.
For the moment,
Tony
-
Hi Tony - yes it was the 1841 Census for Parkhurst prison. However, if he was tried at the Old Bailey, does that mean he lived in London, rather than Isle of Sheppey, Kent? What info would you need to prove/disprove the link? My Edward Carter had parents William and Elizabeth - and sister Susannah - all born/living in Sheerness, Sheppey, Kent
Thanks for the swift reply,
Jan
-
Hello Jan,
Good news........creating Biographies for the 123 "Parkhurst Boys" that were sent to Auckland has been the most difficult part of the research for my PhD......now with Edward CARTER it seems I can add another item that will certainly help me.
Possibly the best approach, subject to your agreement, would be to send me a "Personal Message" confirming your email address, together with bits and pieces of information that you have for Edward, especially those that relate to 1861 and beyond which I can further research from this end of the world. I will then complete his Biography, including a transcript of his trial and his first 2/3 years in NZ. The most testing research probably will be to retrieve details about how he "emigrated" back to England. Incidentally, do please confirm your full name so that I can add the proper "Acknowledgement".
For the moment,
Tony
-
I know this is five years too lte but do you sill want any stories of Parkhurst boys in NZ.
My great great grndfather was William Thorne who came out on the St george.
I have his life story if it is still of any use to you.
He was one of the success stories.
Anne Ashford
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Hello Anne,
Delighted with your message, especially as your Great Great Grandfather is one for whom I have no information at all about his NZ life. And, not too late, as I am just in the final stages of putting my PhD research together.
My quest retrieving details for the 123 "Parkhurst Boys" sent to Auckland in 1842 and 1843 has been very disappointing. In fact I have only managed to complete full Biographies for 12 of them, so your message was more than welcome.
I will post a "Personal Message" to you with my email address and we can then exchange the details.
For the moment
Tony
-
So glad to hear from you and to be of so use. Am apalled at the typos in my original message p ery careless!!!
Am new to Roots chat - do personal messages come through this or do you get access to my email address.
Anne
-
Hello Anne,
My Personal Message should have reached you in the same fashion as my reply to your original message.
I have sent you a duplicate just in case.
For now
Tony
-
Hi,
My husband's g g grandfather was George Brown, 16 years old on arrival, a shoemaker and one of the Parkhurst boys transported on the St George arriving in 1842.
George was born in Wiltshire, England in 1925, he married Harriette Ward who was born in Auckland, NZ in 1856. They were married in 1872. Quite an age gap that caused a rift in the Ward family.
There is a great book called the First Fleets of Auckland which refers to the petty crimes they were sentenced for eg: fishing in the lord river or stealing an apple from a shop because they were hungry. Sad times
The website below tells that it was the Quakers influence in segregating the boys and teaching them trades.
http://pearlspad.net.nz/ParkhurstBoys.htm
You probably have all this info.
Best wishes
Tina Humphrey Rotorua New Zealand
-
Hello Tina,
I am very grateful for your message....thank you.
Some little while ago Tony Browne, George BROWN's Great Grandson, contacted me with some details which I would like to extend if at all possible. I gather there were 13 children of his marriage to Harriet WARD and it would be very helpful if you have their personal details, together with what type of work George BROWN did and the cause of his eventual death in 1912. The Biography I have for him is quite extensive, including his treatment during the first years in Auckland. I will send you a Personal Message with my email address which you can respond to and I can then email you a copy of the Biography.
I was extremely interested in the "First Fleets of Auckland" which I have googled, found to be out of print and quite expensive second hand ex-postage to the UK. Would it be possible to confirm whether or not the Parkhurst Boys that appear in the book are actually named, because possibly if so somebody could do a little research for me!!!
For the moment
Tony
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Hi,
I have been communicating with Tony Browns for some time, another relation put me on to him. I'll send you all the family details I have.
Yes they had 13 children and they all lived to good ages, except Mary Elizabeth who died at 29.
Tony sent me a great picture of George and Harriette with the youngest child Wilfred. Great picture, funny looking man (not my side of the family!!!)
My email is (*)
Send me you email and I'll get the info to you.
Ciao for now
Tina Humphrey
(*) Moderator Comment: Personal details removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Hello Tina,
You will note that your email details were removed.
Could you please refer to the Personal Message I sent which quotes my email address and you can then contact me direct with all the details, especially the photograph!!
For now,
Tony
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Tony, I have been sitting here reading the posts about the Parkhurst Boys, in the hope that George Brown was my 3x great grandfather. But I have just got to the end of the posts and discovered someone else has claimed him.
I have been looking for a George Brown, Shoemaker, born in Millbrook, Hampshire for some time now, and after attending the Family History show today, hoped that I had finally found him! We have no record of his leaving England or arriving in New Zealand, other than his marriage in 1844 to Eliza Benton; in Wellington, New Zealand.
I am sorry someone else has claimed him, but it has been very interesting reading, as I had never heard of the Parkhurst boys.
I hope you studies have gone well.
Regards
Cathy
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Hello Cathy,
Thank you for dropping me a line.......I can sympathise with the disappointment over your George BROWN not being the "Parkhurst Boy". There have been many occasions when tracing one of the "Parkhurst Boys" to find I have been gaily wandering down a blind alley!!!
In some respects he was a strange character in that in 1844 he "vanished" for the next 28 years, re-emerging with his marriage in 1872 and becoming the father of 13 children. The likelihood is that he was born in Lincolnshire, not Hampshire as your 3xGreat Grandfather, although this has not been verified but the 1841 Census, taken when he was in Parkhurst Prison, does state he was not born in the County (Hampshire).
Good luck with your continued search.
For now,
Tony
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Tony
Me again!
My George Brown appeared in New Zealand sometime before 1843-44, in time to marry in Wellington. The only George Brown I can find on shipping records during this period is a Parkhurst boy.
George Brown from Lincolnshire who was sent to Parkhurst Prison and then to New Zealand, had a father named William, which is the name of the first born child of my George. We can find no record of my George Brown where he says he was born!
I think I noticed on one of the posts about the Parkhurst boys mention of records that were kept for the first three years they were here. Can you tell me how to access these.
I know that someone has "claimed" him but with a 40 year gap with no knowledge of his whereabouts and apart from the fact I am not the only member of the family to have picked up on the Parkhurst boys, I have become very interested in what happened to them.
Were there any ships logs from the St George put into book form? I have just read "No Simple Passage" which was great reading and would quite like to read more along the same lines.
Regards
Cathy
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Hello Cathy,
I have been in contact with two of George BROWN's descendants, his Great Grandson Tony Browne and Great Great Granddaughter Tina Humphrey.
May I suggest you send me a Personal Message, confirming your email address and relationship to George BROWN, and I shall then contact them with your details so you can exchange family information.
For the moment,
Tony
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Hi Tony and Cathy,
All very interesting. I suppose we can't dismiss the possibility of George marrying before as there is a big gap of not knowing.
Anyway I'm happy for Cathy to contact me.
By the way Tony, we had a lovely visit from Tony Browne and his fatherThey were on there way back to Gisborne from Tony's uncles (fathers brother, and can't remember the fathers name) funeral in Auckland. Tony father is very defensive of his grandfather George's past.
Anyway I hope your well and the studies are nearly done. We are shifting to Australia at Xmas, so will be able to do more research on my husbands other criminal side...
Take care
Tina
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Good Morning Tina,
I have sent Cathy your email address via a PM and hopefully she will contact you shortly. Should anything emerge in your conversations about the 30 missing years do please let me know.
May I wish you all the best in your "migration" to Australia. I thoroughly enjoyed the years I spent in Melbourne (and Hobart earlier) as a £10 Pom, although in those days having a convict as an ancestor may have limited the number of dinner invitations you received. My eyes are now firmly fixed this coming weekend on NZ and the fate of my red dragon compatriots taking on the frogs!!!
Take care
Tony
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Hi I am a descendant (still to confirm) of William Robert Woodgate, I see by reading through the blog that you finished his biography some years back. I would appreciate if you could send me any information.
Steve :)
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Hello Steve,
Please send me a Personal Message with your email address and I shall contact his Great Granddaughter about sending you a copy of his Biography that we compiled.
Regards
Tony Cocks
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Interested to see the thread being resurrected from time to time with new connections, wonderful.
.... and they were both in good form on Saturday, Tony ... will certainly be one to watch ;) so we know what's in store after the transTasman battle for us... cheers :D mare
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I may have information about one of the transportees on the St George if you are still looking
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Thank you for the message.
Yes, I am still very much searching for details of those Parkhurst Boys sent to NZ and look forward to any information you may have.
For the moment,
Tony Cocks
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Hello Liamhatch,
Happy New Year and I look forward to your details about one of the "Parkhurst Boys" sent to Auckland.
Regards,
Tony Cocks
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Dear Sir,
I am currently doing some research for an MFA at Otago Polytechnic and was interested in taking a look at the list of Parkhurst Boys that were sent to NZ if there was any chance you could send that to me? If you want any more information about me that would be fine of course. Anyway, if you are able to that would be a great help.
Many Thanks
KD Miles
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Hello Wharetiro,
There are quite a few listings of the "NZ Parkhurst Boys" online, one of the best being:
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~tonyf/parkhurstboys/convicts4.html
If you want more information if you google "NZ Parkhurst Boys" that could be very helpful.
Good luck
BAC3
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Thanks so much that was great help ;)
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Kia ora Tony
Greetings from Aotearoa NZ!! Land of the Long White Cloud - and yes deniers of our convict history. I am guessing that you have completed your dissertation on the Parkhurst Boys. A bit of a shame for my family - as my family is directly descended from William Beales. And to hide our past (well to find each other), the wife of William Beales removed the 'e' from the 'les' - we are now the Parkhurst Beals not Beales. As a family we never made it to fame like other Parkhurst names - William died before he was thirty
Is there any way to get a copy of your dissertation??
Hopefully you still keep an eye on this thread - it would be fab to make contact
Regards
Fiona Beals - proudly associated to her Parkhurst history even in the land of convict deniers
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Prynhawn da (Good afternoon) Fiona,
I happen to be one of those unfortunate Welshmen who will rise to heaven on the day we eventually beat the All Blacks (even though we persist in having Kiwi coaches!!!!).
Delighted to hear from you but, sadly, my knowledge of William BEALS, which was both the court's and Parkhurst Prison's spelling not BEALES, is very limited. He was already imprisoned for the 1841 England Census, which did not carry family details, and the only possible sighting of him is that he may be the son of Grace and William BEELS, born on 13/11/1825 in Falmouth, Cornwall, and christened on 01/12/1825. You may be able to help in his regard.
He was sentenced to transportation for 7 years at Falmouth Borough Sessions on 20/10/1837, held in Falmouth Gaol until 13/02/1838 when he was removed to the "York" Hulk at Gosport, Hampshire. From there he was transferred to Parkhurst Prison on 26/12/1838 with the dubious distinction of being one of the first 120 inmates received by the prison when it opened on that date. And then the removal to Auckland aboard the "Mandarin" where he arrived on 14/11/1843 as a "Free Immigrant", meaning that he was entitled to choose his own way life EXCEPT leave NZ until he had completed his servitude on 19/10/1844. Why he was transported with only a year outstanding on his sentence has never been answered. My only extra piece of information is that he was employed by an anonymous Mr. MILTON immediately after arrival.
If you can help with information post-1843 I would be delighted. This will then enable me to produce a standard format of Biography used in my database, a database that I keep extending whenever new details become available......sometimes I have to rewrite my conclusions about whether or not individuals were reformed or just kept on trangressing!!!!! When you respond to this posting I should be in a position to send you Personal Message with my email address.....email addresses are not allowed to be quoted on the open forum.
Once again, I am delighted you have contacted me and I look forward to developing with you the story of William BEALS, "Parkhurst Boy".
For the moment,
Tony
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Kia ora Tony
That is very interesting and shows how Family Stories change over time - so my Great Great Great Gramps must haven't suffered the dreaded let's add an 'e' to the end of your name in the NZ records.
I can definitely help re post his arrival in New Zealand - I have the complete genealogy (up to two years ago) and a family contact as well.
Regarding the information you have for him (possibly) before 1843 - this is very valuable. Because he wasn't in a recognised early colonial family any pride in his history pre NZ was lost very very quickly - especially given he only lived a further 12 years when he arrived.
Nga mihi
Fiona
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Hello Fiona,
I have sent you a Personal Message with my email address and look forward to you confirming your contact. If for some unknown reason the PM fails to reach you let me know and I shall ask the "Moderator" for suggestions as to how the problem can be overcome.
Meanwhile, I have started composing the narrative for William BEALS up to the point he arrives in Auckland........then over to you!!!
For the moment,
Tony
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I am new to this site and have been researching family members for a friend of mine.
You had a message in 2010 from Anne who mentioned that William Thorne (St George 1842 NZ arrival) was her gt gt grandfather. My friend also has this person as his gt gt grandfather and we are seeking more information about him and perhaps if possible be able to contact this descendant.
I await your reply with anticipation.
Regards
Maxine
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Unfortunately Anne hasn't been on RootChat since Tuesday 23 November 2010 hopefully she may get notfication of your post
Cheers Janette
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Hello Maxine,
I have sent you a Personal Message confirming my email address and we can then correspond by my letting you have a copy etc. of the work I carried out on William THORNE.
Sadly, I did not retain a record of Ann Ashford's email address and the hope must be she notices your message, although as Janette points out she has not been on RootsChat for over 4 years.
For the moment,
Tony
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Hi Tony,
Maxine may not receive your PM as she doesn't have enough posts (you need three) to activate it.
Maxine, welcome ;D ;D Just reply twice with a smiley to activate your Personal Message (PM) facility.
Spades
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Tony my email to your address was rejected. Please advise
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:) :) :)
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Maxine,
You should be able to send me a Personal Message now!!!
Tony
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Hi Tony. I am a descendant of a Parkhurst boy who came to New Zealand. Would love to chat.
Ani.
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Hello Ani,
Thank you for your post.
I have a short biography for John MINHINNICK which I shall be delighted to send you a copy of. Firstly, I need your email address that you will have to confirm by a Personal Message. However, it is necessary for you to have posted at least 3 times before the Personal Message system is available to you and my suggestion is that you complete 2 more postings, just saying "Hello" for instance, and we can the take it from there.
Good luck,
Tony
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Cool. Do you have any information prior to his arrest and sentencing?
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:) :) :) :)
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:) :)
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I came across you completely by accident. I posted on a NZ genealogy group on Facebook, asking if anyone else was a descended from Parkhurst boys, and a woman in the group sent me a link to this site.
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Hello
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Hi Tony
I posted in another section of RootsChat and was directed to you.
I am doing a course at the University of Tasmania on Convict Ancestors as part of the Diploma of Family History. There are no convicts in my family so I adopted one. My criteria was that the convict needed to have come out on the same ship that my 2 times Great Grandfather, who was a corporal of the guard. The person I chose was Samuel Sheepwash. Why him? My 5 times Great Grandmother was a Sheepwash. Since then I have found out that Samuel was 13 years old when he was first sentenced for 7 years for Larceny. He was also tried a second time for stealing slippers. His trial was at Clerkenwell in Middlesex. At 16 years he was transported to VDL on the ship Fairlie in 1852. In 1870 at age 35 he was tried again for larceny and sentenced to 6 years. Although he was not Samuel Sheepwash but Samuel Challis on the charge. He also was recorded as Sweepwash. records state his native place was 1:Gloucester 2. Cheltenham.
Would you be able to direct me in where I can find more records about this boy? I do know that he was at Parkhurst. Other than his convict records I have no other details about him and would like to know what sources I can access. I thought their might be records for Parkhurst that may give a bit more personal information.
I'd like to stress I am not looking for specific information about this person but where I can research to find out for myself. I have exhausted my research knowledge which isn't very much but I have found out about records that I never knew existed.
If you can not help please let me know. Thank you
Cheers
Evelyn from Western Australia
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Hello Evelyn,
Certainly I can help you with Samuel SHEEPWASH (renamed CHALLIS in VDL), having completed a short Biography for him with the appropriate bibliography in March 2010. However, you will need to confirm your email address, by sending me a PERSONAL MESSAGE, so that I can forward the WORD document.
I only have one reservation. Since 2010 there has been a virtual deluge of new source material, none of which has been researched and accounted for in the Biography. In some respects this will satisfy your requirement that you wish to undertake your own research.
For the moment,
Tony
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Morning Tony
I came across your thread of messages regarding Parkhurst Boys transported to New Zealand and was especially interested in Fiona Beals's message regarding her ancestor - William BEALS.
William is my 3 X great grandfather too and he was actually the son of Richard and Grace BEELS (nee SEMMENS).
William's grandson (my great grandfather) John Henry BEALS, joined the British Army and I have his marriage certificate, dated 4 March 1911, showing he was in the 16th Lancers and based in Norwich. On the 1911 Census he is shown as being born in Auckland, New Zealand.
I would love to be able to share any information I have with Fiona and was hoping you could pass on my personal email address to her if you didn't mind.
Likewise, I would be only too pleased to let you know of any information I have which you would find useful.
Kind regards
Chris Beal
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Hello Chris,
Delighted to read your message.
Before I can provide further information, through a PERSONAL MESSAGE, you need to have made at least 3 posts (you have 1 at the moment). I suggest you send 2 more posts just using the word "Hello" as your message and then I should be able to send you a PERSONAL MESSAGE with Fiona's email address for example.
I hope it will work.
Tony
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Hi Tony
Many thanks for getting back to me. I've only just found RootsChat - hence why I've only sent one message to date. I'll send another one in a moment and do as you suggest.
Many thanks for your help,
Chris
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Hello
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I'm not sure how old this thread is!! I'm trying to make contact with Tony Cocks regarding your work on the Parkhurst Boys - are you still contactable about this. I hope so!!
John
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Sorry folks - I need to post 3 comments before I can send a PM.
I'm not sure how old this thread is!! I'm trying to make contact with Tony Cocks regarding your work on the Parkhurst Boys - are you still contactable about this. I hope so!!
John
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Sorry folks - I need to post 3 comments before I can send a PM. This should be the last one!!
I'm not sure how old this thread is!! I'm trying to make contact with Tony Cocks regarding your work on the Parkhurst Boys - are you still contactable about this. I hope so!!
John
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I'm not sure how old this thread is!! I'm trying to make contact with Tony Cocks regarding your work on the Parkhurst Boys - are you still contactable about this. I hope so!!
John
Hi John,Tony was last active on RC yesterday so hopefully he will get notification of your post,
Cheers Janette
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Thanks Janette - Tony has been in touch. A great site!!
John
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I am looking for help to find information regarding Fredrick HORNE who was transported from Parkhurst Prison to Auckland. Any help would be very much appreciated
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Hi TokoroaWilsons, and welcome to RootsChat :)
BAC3 should reply to you soon.
Spades
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BAC3, have you completed your Ph D dissertation?
Any change we could get access? It would be an invaluable resource for New Zealand genealogists,.
Spades
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Hello TokoroaWilsons,
Thank you for your post.
I shall certainly try to help with all the information I have so far gleaned, although Frederick HORNE is not a Parkhurst Boy I have previously researched.
It seems he robbed his father......a not uncommon crime in early Victorian England......and was subsequently sentenced to 7 years transportation. He reached NZ aboard the St. George in November 1842 as an Apprentice Tailor and that is more or less my last sighting of him. If you can help with the rest of his life I shall be delighted.
I will send you a Personal Message with my email address and hopefully we can take the story of Frederick HORNE from there.
For the moment,
BAC3
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Hello spades,
I hope you are keeping well.
Presently I am in dispute with Southampton University over the question of fees, which have increased exponentially, and I am refusing to meet them purely on the grounds they do not represent added value for money. University fees are a matter of national controversy in the UK anyway.
Nevertheless my research continues, if for no other reason than in advanced retirement it keeps me active. Of course ever-increasing online information has meant having to revisit some of my early work and, indeed, revising my opinions!!! Should the dissertation have to take a back seat my research findings will be made available to The National Archives.
The posting for Frederick HORNE was more than welcome because NZ has proved the most difficult tracing the Parkhurst Boys. Of the 123 who arrived in Auckland from the St. George and Mandarin in 1842/1843 I have managed to complete portraits for only 23 :'( :'( The despair that the early settlers registered with the arrival of the boys seems to have been sustained throughout the following years.
For the moment, take care.............I have typed this having washed my hands ::)
BAC3
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Good for you, I feel cleansed lol!
Very sorry to hear that news, I was very keen to read your conclusions, and still am.
Spades
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Hello TokoroaWilsons,
I'm rather disappointed that you have not responded either to this thread or my Personal Message confirming a contact email address.
I am keen to continue the conversation particularly against the background of my general difficulties unearthing details of the 123 Parkhurst Boys transported to NZ.
For the moment,
BAC3
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Hi BAC3,
TokoroaWilsons needs to have two more posts, before he can receive PM's ... even if he replies with a couple of smiley faces or just Hello.
Cheers
KHP
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Thank You KHP,
I had forgotten the "3 post rule" for PM's.
My sadness is the non-response of TokoroaWilsons, especially as unearthing the NZ "Parkhurst Boys" is difficult. I presume there is nothing else I can do, except probably write the contact off to experience.
Les tribulations de la genealogie......... :'( :'(
Take care,
BAC3
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Thank you to those that replied. This is the first time I have got to my computor as I have been very ill. I am just answering this to let those that replied that I am not ignoring and hopefully will be back to research very soon
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Good to have you back, TokoroaWilsons :) :)
Best wishes for a full recovery from all of us.
Spades
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Thank you
Leo
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Kia ora everyone,
I am new to rootschat and this is my first post - I am trying to find my great, great great grandfather Benjamin Thomas Hurst/Herse/Hearse/Hearst/Hirst. His name on his death certificate is Benjmain Herse and he died in 1906 in Halcombe New Zealand at age 87 approx, and listed on his death certificate is a birth place of Ireland but no county - his spouse's name is correct on the death certificate so I know its the right person. We have a record to show he was a private with the 65th Regiment from 1845-1850.
The family story we've been told is he stole a loaf of bread and was apparently sent to VDL and I'm wondering if he was one of the Parkhurst Boys - his birth we estimate is around 1815-1818. He may have also have been under Thomas Benjamin Hurst and another family member has said he may have had a brother called James or his father may have been called James. I know this isn't a lot to go on but it is all that we have.
Any nfomration would be greatly appreciated thankyou, Eunice.
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Welcome to RootsChat Eunice, Tony/BAC3 should be alerted to your post in due course, as I have been as a contributor to this thread, his profile tells me he was last on the site at the end of last month.
All the best with following up on your gggf ... :) mare
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Hi Eunice, and welcome :) :)
Your Benjamin was not a Parkhurst Boy.
This entry for a Benjamin HEARSE of the 65th Regiment of Foot appears in Hughes, H & L (1988) Discharged in New Zealand. Soldiers of the Imperial Foot Regiments who took their discharge in New Zealand 1840-1870.
65th Regiment, p.84:
Regimental No.: 2289
Rank: Pte (e.g. Private)
Name: HEARSE, Benjamin
Birthplace: Tandragee (Tandragee is a village in County Armagh)
Trade (on enlistment): Lab (e.g. Labourer, not further differentiated)
Date of Enlistment: 201045+
Place of Discharge: WG (e.g. Wanganui)
Date of Discharge: 311250
Type of Discharge: R (e.g. Discharged by Reduction)
Ship/s: JCJV3 (e.g. JOHN CALVIN, convict ship, departed Woolwich 040546, arrived Hobart Town via Norfolk Island 071046, then JAVA, departed Sydney NSW 081146, arrived Auckland 271146)
Note: The indicator + refers to a footnote that states ‘See also page 102’.
On this page under the heading;
Enlistment Details - Place and Age (years-months) is the listing;
‘2289 HEARSE Banbridge 18-6’.
(Banbridge probably refers to the town in County Down, about 5 miles west of Tandragee).
Spades
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To provide some context to these entries I quote the introductory text for the 65th Regiment list (pp.67-68).
'Section 13 65th (2nd YORKSHIRE NORTH RIDING) REGIMENT
Of all the regiments the 65th, known as "The Royal Tigers" from their badge (granted for services in India), had the longest association with New Zealand and well over eleven hundred of their rank and file took their discharge here. They served all over the North Island and were known by the Maoris as "The Hickety Pips", their version of "65th". In many ways their activities followed the same pattern as those of the 58th. During the period August 1845 to May 1846 the Regiment provided guards for eight convict ships, six for Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania) and the CHINA and JOHN CALVIN for Norfolk Island. After delivering the convicts the guards went on to Sydney, either on the same ships or by transferring to one of the others as convenient. Then in 1846, when disturbances broke out in New Zealand in the Hutt Valley, most of the available guards were hurriedly shipped over to Wellington on the LEVANT. Meanwhile the main part of the Regiment had embarked at Woolwich on the JAVA which called in at Hobart Town on its way to Sydney. Not long after arrival there the ship was re-chartered to take the troops across to New Zealand; two companies (about 200 men) disembarked at the Bay of Islands while the rest continued down to Auckland. Unfortunately owing to an outbreak of measles amongst the children at Chatham, then the Depot of the 65th, no married officers or soldiers had been allowed to travel out from England on the JAVA; they followed later on the SIR ROBERT PEEL which, in addition to the Commanding Officer Lieut. Colonel Gold with his wife and four children, carried the Sergeant Major, Quarter master Sergeant, Armourer Sergeant, Drum Major, Orderly Room Clerk, three Colour Sergeants, eight Sergeants, three Corporals, 42 privates, 51 women & 79 children; the privates must have had a hard time with so many senior NCOs on board. In July 1847 the 65th was ordered to move down to Wellington, being relieved in Auckland by the 58th. Between October 1846 and November 1852 guards were provided on ten more convict ships from UK to Van Diemen's Land and New South Wales and in each case these guards were ferried across the Tasman to New Zealand on whatever shipping was available. In addition further reinforcements were sent out from Britain during 1852-64 going direct to NZ. When the 58th left for England in November 1858 the 65th was, briefly, the sole garrison in these parts; the headquarters were by then in Auckland with detachments at Wellington, Taranaki and Napier. However from 1860 onwards disturbances broke out in Taranaki and elsewhere and other regiments were soon sent over. The 65th were heavily involved in Taranaki, and later in the Waikato including the battles at Rangiriri (November 1863) and Orakau (April 1864). Finally, after just over 19 years in New Zealand, the Regiment embarked for England in October 1865 on the two ships ROB ROY and JOHN TEMPERLEY. Additional enlistment particulars, giving the place and the recruit's age at that time, are also included for nearly five hundred of the soldiers in our list and are given from page 100 onwards. This information is not available here for those who enlisted before April 1845, or between December 1846 and July 1851, or those who transferred from another regiment, but can be deduced if the recruit was a "Boy" at the time as his promotion to Private would have taken place on his 15th birthday.'
See next post for remainder of article:
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'As with the 58th Regiment many of the entries in the list of discharges have a four-letter abbreviation in the last column; the first two letters indicate the ship on which the soldier left the United Kingdom and the other two give the ship on which he arrived in New Zealand. A two-letter entry indicates a single ship from UK to NZ but because so many others joined the JAVA at Sydney its journey across the Tasman has been treated as a separate voyage, using JV for those who disembarked at the Bay of Islands and JV for those who carried on to Auckland. It must be emphasized again that the date first quoted for each ship normally refers to the embarkation of the troops and not the sailing date; thus the soldiers boarded the first convict ship, the SAMUEL BODDINGTON, on 26 August 1845 but in this case the convicts were picked up in Ireland and the ship actually sailed from Dublin on 23 September 1845. Similar particulars regarding the ship PALMYRA have already been given on page 8.
The muster rolls also tell us that No.2194 Private Edward McKENNA was born in Leeds and became a wireworker before enlisting in the 65th on 12 January 1845; he sailed out to Auckland on the JAVA. In a hectic skirmish at Camerontown on 7 September 1863 McKenna, by then a Colour Sergeant, took over command of a group of the 65th when both the officers had become incapacitated and he performed with such gallantry that he was later awarded the Victoria Cross and promoted to Ensign. He retired from the army on 1 September 1865 and latterly became the stationmaster at Wanganui, celebrating his golden wedding in 1903. He died in 1908 and his medals were eventually presented to the Auckland Museum. For further particulars regarding the history and achievements of the Regiment readers are recommended to study Broughton's Memoirs of the 65th Regiment which is available in major libraries and is full of interesting detail.'
Spades
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Hi Spades, that is phenomenal thank you so very much! That information is amazing and provides an incredibly large piece of the puzzle in solving the mystery of our ancestor! Albeit now no longer a mystery, I really can't thank you enough, you have made me so very happy! THANK YOU! :D
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My pleasure!
Spades
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I am researching the Parkhurst Boys, two boatloads of young 'convicts' who were sent from Parkhurst Prison to Auckland New Zealand. Today my particular interest is Frederick Horne who came on the St. George In 1842. I am stuck with several Frederick Hornes and trying to identify the right one.
I see that "Tokoroa Wilsons" was on this very topic in 2020. I'd like to get in touch with "Tokoroa Wilsons" especially if he/she is a descendant of Frederick Horne or one of the other Parkhurst Boys and can help me find the right one.
John Gill, Wellington
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Hi John,
I have just attached your message as a reply to the topic so that the members will be notified of a new reply.
Regards
Sarah
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George Baker
Convicted 1838 at the Old Bailey
804. GEORGE BAKER was indicted for stealing, on the 28th of February, 1 silver watch, value 30s.; the goods of Catherine Harris; to which he pleaded
GUILTY .— Transported for Seven Years.
George was aged 16 when he came to New Zealand on the St George in 1842. He was trained as a shoemaker. David Rough placed him with the Survey Department as a tent keeper.
I have found several possibilities but have found cause to eliminate most, and none are looking really solid.
However, while researching George I found the Roll of Colonists created in 1940, the centenary of settlement. This included settlers to Auckland from before 1852. George Baker is on the list, with his date of arrival as 1842, but with no mention of the ship he arrived on. This may have been a device for concealing his origin as a Parkhurst Boy, but likely in 1940 his descendants were seeking recognition for him as a settler.
Can you help link me to the correct George Baker?
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John Ryan, a Parkhurst Boy off the St George in 1842. He was convicted at the old bailey in 1841, of simple larceny. My last confirmed sighting of him is 1843 when he is a servant in Epsom. I'm testing to see if he could be one of the mutinous crew of the schooner Helen in 1850.
Anyone with a connection to either John Ryan?
Can someone show the missing link?
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The George BAKER quoted above as a "Parkhurst Boy" is, sadly, incorrect.
He was actually born on 08/03/1825 in Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk, where he was found guilty on 30/03/1839 of robbing a carrier's cart and sentenced to 7 years transportation. His parents were Joseph Baker and Frances Baker (nee Double) and he was brother to Mary, William, Frances and half-brother to Thomas Cook Double.
All other detail posted is correct.
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I have matched the list of Parkhurst Boys against the list of Colonists registered by their families for the 1940 Centenary. Any descendants of the following please get in touch with me to confirm, or not, that your ancestor belongs on both lists:
St George 1842
George Baker
G. Brown
George Isaac Burnard
James Coley
George Edge
John Floyd
T. Harvey
W. Hollis
John Lee
John Malcolm
John Nicholson
James Rampling
John Saunders
William Smith
Mandarin 1843
Isaac Eggerton
James Griffith
John Lynch
William Paton
Any other Parkhurst Boy descendants or researchers do make contact too.
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My ancestor was George baker does anyone have any info on him once he got here?
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Hello,
I missed your message concerning George BAKER.
Possibly I can help, especially if you understand he may have "migrated" to Melbourne in the early 1850's.
BAC3
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Hi
Very possible. I believe my three times grandfather Thomas Baker born 1850/1851 in Thames coromandel may have been his son.
I do know that Thomas refused to acknowledge either of his parents and there was no birth certificate for him.