Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - lancaster.jim

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 ... 9
1
Lancashire / Re: Convent, Burbo Bank Road, Great Crosby
« on: Wednesday 19 August 20 18:40 BST (UK)  »
Have you asked the Ursuline Order about the Ursine Convent, Burbo Bank Road, Gt Crosby?  There may be some surviving records that might help explain how this lady became resident there.  In view of her WWI VAD service there may have been an obituary written about her.

The Ursuline order has web-site -

http://www.ursulines.co.uk/index.htm

and this gives contact details -

Ursulines Roman Union
38 Grosvenor Road
Forest Gate
London
E7 8JA
United Kingdom

020 8471 6644

unamabel@aol.com

If you write, you should address your message to “The Archivist” and explain your interest in this lady.

2
Lancashire / Re: Jane Lowe, Superintendent of Birkdale Palace Hotel 1882-1883
« on: Saturday 14 March 20 21:29 GMT (UK)  »
You wrote -
“I am trying to uncover details of Jane Lowe's time as Superintendent. Is there any evidence that she may have converted to Roman Catholicism during her time [1882 - 1883] in Southport? “

If Jane became a Roman Catholic, then one would expect a baptism entry in a church somewhere, probably close to where she lived.  Baptism can only be received once and as most people are baptised as infants, this is not a problem.  For adults seeking admission to the Catholic Church, this raises the question - “Has this person been baptised already?”  At this time there was not agreed understanding of “Baptism” and so the priest would baptise the person 'Conditionally' -  In this, the usual form of baptism was/is preceded by “If you have not already been baptised, I baptise you ...”  This procedure has become much less frequent since ca 1970 when the main Christian churches reached a common understanding of Baptism.

Using Genuki Church Database (https://www.genuki.org.uk/churchdb ) to find churches in Southport and then filtering for Roman Catholic churches shows that in 1882, the only Catholic church in Southport was St Mary on the Sands, established in 1841.  The entry for this church (https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Southport/StMaryontheSands  ) shows that the early baptism registers have been deposited in Lancashire Archives in Preston.

Original Registers
Baptisms
1831-1897 held by Lancashire Record Office RCSO
Copies of Original Registers
Baptisms
1831-1941 held by Lancashire Record Office MF 9/136 264-265 - Microfilm
1831-1959 held by Lancashire Record Office Searchroom - Transcript

As far as I can see there are not any published transcripts of these registers.

3
Lancashire / Re: Married CofE baptized Catholic
« on: Sunday 04 August 19 19:26 BST (UK)  »
As Joney says - “The answer depends on the year.”  From 1754, Hardwicke's Act required that all marriages were solemnised in a licensed church of the Established Religion (i.e. CoE) before an authorised minister – usually the Rector.  The only exceptions were for members of the Jewish and Quaker communities.  In 1837 the civil registration of marriages was introduced that accommodated the needs of those of other religious groups and those of none.  The non-Anglicans could be married in their own chapel, if licensed and in the presence of the Registrar, or the marriage could be solemnised in the Registrar's office.  From 1898, Authorised Persons could be appointed to non-Anglican chapels to act for the Registrar.  This facility was taken up by many of the Free Church communities but not by many Catholic churches until after about 1970.

Even after 1837, some Catholics continued to use the Parish Church for the solemnisation of their marriage, even when there was a local Catholic chapel.  From the point of view of Catholic Church law, marriages in England that took place according to the civil law in the 1800s were accepted as valid marriages.  This changed in 1908 when the Church issued the decree 'Ne Temere' that set out more clearly the rules for Catholic marriages worldwide.  I remember from my childhood, talk of people 'having their marriage put right'.  This often required a Catholic marriage ceremony in church.  This did not need the presence of the Registrar as the couple already had a valid civil marriage, but the marriage is recorded in the Catholic marriage register, often with the note 'Ne Temere'.

The above may explain why a couple married in an Anglican church and had their children baptised in a Catholic church.  As a rule of thumb, I think that the place of baptism shows the religious adherence of the family.  BUT one set of my great grandparents had a mixed marriage ca 1880, one being Catholic and one Protestant and they brought up their sons as Protestants and their daughters as Catholics!

4
The Common Room / Re: Roman Catholic Registers
« on: Sunday 28 July 19 17:03 BST (UK)  »
I have looked at the marriage register for St Joseph, Heywood (1872 onwards).  Quite a number of marriages are annotated “Obtenta dispensatione (matrim: mixt:)” showing that one of the parties was not a Catholic.  The first reference to “Ne Temere” is in 1912 and is annotated “disp Apost obtenta  Ne Temere case”  suggesting that the couple had previously had a marriage ceremony in a non-Catholic church, or in the Register Office  Checking LancashireBMD (http://lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.php ) shows that the previous ceremony took place at St Clement, Rochdale, in 1909.  LanBMD does not have a record of this ceremony in 1912.

References to “Ne Temere” become much more common from 1913.  Taken with your note about St Mary, Burnley, this suggests that the diocese authorities had started to 'encourage' noting of these cases.

5
The Common Room / Re: Roman Catholic Registers
« on: Saturday 27 July 19 15:35 BST (UK)  »
Further to Maiden Stone's information (24 July) about the decree “Ne Temere”, this decree was issued to unify the Catholic solemnisation of marriage around the world,  The big change that was seen here in England was the introduction of the “Certificate of Freedom to Marry”.  This is a copy of all the information in the entry in the Baptismal Register for the person.  This has to be given to the priest who is to solemnise the marriage and after the marriage that priest has to inform the baptismal parish of the details of the marriage for them to be entered the baptism entry.  If that person needed another “Certificate of Freedom to Marry” to marry in a Catholic church later, then that certificate will contain details of the first marriage and the person will have to prove the death of the first spouse.  In such cases, there should be an addition giving details of the second marriage and MAYBE details of the death of the first spouse.  These annotations may appear in baptism registers from about 1870 for marriages that took place after 1908.

Another consequence of the decree “Ne Temere” is that couples who had married outside the Church would (to use a phrase from my youth) have their marriage 'put right' with a ceremony in church.  Such ceremonies would be recorded in the church marriage register and are usually annotated 'NT' or 'Ne Temere' or similar, and sometimes have reasons.  These are the most common instances where the entry in the Catholic register does not have a civil entry for the same date.  This only occurs after 1908.  The 'civil' marriage (in a non-Catholic church, or in the Register Office) will have occurred some time (??many years) before this church entry.

It is very seldom that there is an annotation in the marriage register to indicate where the persons were baptised.

6
Lancashire / Re: single mothers home run by nuns
« on: Tuesday 02 July 19 21:37 BST (UK)  »
JoBird, most of the surviving records for the Catholic homes for unmarried mothers that operated in the Diocese of Salford have been collected by Caritas Diocese of Salford.  This organisation has a web site and one of the services provided is post-adoption help.  Have a look at https://www.caritassalford.org.uk/service-view/services-3/
It provides - Services for adoptees; Services for adoptive families; and Services for birth relatives.

7
Lancashire / Re: Death of nun before 1934
« on: Wednesday 12 June 19 19:23 BST (UK)  »
There are two CD compilations of lists of nuns.  One - “Index of Nuns” [from 1795] pub Catholic Family History Society (2015) - has a note -

Approximately 94% of the over 14,200 records in the current CFHS database relate to nuns who professed later than 1795, and thus the Index of Nuns usefully complements, rather than duplicates, the detailed study by Dr. Caroline Bowden et alii of the families of nuns of the English convents in exile 1600-1800, the 'Who were the nuns? project', which can be referenced at wwtn.history.qmul.ac.uk. Note also that members of the English Benedictine Congregation (both monks and nuns) can be searched for at www.plantata.org.uk/people.php. It should be noted that some orders did not contribute data.
[enddquote]

It would appear that the order to which Sister Albertine belonged did not contribute to this Index.

The 1911 Census For England & Wales shows Mary O'Donnell as being at -

Seafield House, Great Crosby, Lancashire, England

Mary O Donnell
Sister Of Order   Single   Female      Age,40
Birth year,1871
Birth place, Clonnel Tipperary Resident
Occupation, Domestic Duties
Address, Seafield House Great Crosby

Archive reference,RG14
Registration district,West Derby
Registration district number,455
Enumeration district,30
District number,30
Sub district,Crosby
Sub district number,1
Census reference,RG14PN22329 RD455 SD1 ED30 SN9999
RG78 code number,1318
Piece number,22329

The English houses of this order are part of the Northern Europe Province of the order and there is a website at http://www.rshm-nep.org/page-11192.html  but there does not appear to be a contact page. The 'Catholic Directory' for 2011 (the most recent one I can access) has an address.  You could try to contact the order's archivist, giving the details you have -

The Archivist
Religious of the Sacred Heart of Mary
54 Grange Road
London   W5 5BX

Email: provincial@rshmlondon.org       I suggest you mark it -“For the attention of the Archivist”

8
Lancashire / Re: Papist return of 1767 look up please
« on: Friday 26 April 19 20:19 BST (UK)  »
Maiden Stone pointed out that the Fernyhalgh Catholic registers were published as -
“Lancashire Registers V, - Fernyhalgh, Goosnargh and Alston Lane” ed. by R.L. Smith, Catholic Record Society Vol. 31 (1932).

Earlier this year, the Catholic Record Society reported that the digitisation of the Volumes Series (up to No. 80) is now complete and will be uploaded to the website soon, and available for public access. It is, however, waiting until the new website is ready for launch, later in 2019, in order to make the digital volumes available.

This will make available a large transcript collection of early Catholic registers.  Many, but not all, have been available on the internet for some time but I have had difficulty in finding them.  I think that Vol 31 is one that is not yet available on the internet.

9
Lancashire / Manchester Genealogical Conference
« on: Thursday 25 April 19 17:28 BST (UK)  »
Hi Folks,

The event detailed below is likely to be of interest and help to those with Jewish ancestry.  The group that are running it are a very friendly and knowledgeable group.

Hope this helps,

Jim Lancaster (Bury Lancs.)


The Manchester Regional Group of the Jewish Genealogical Society of Great Britain is holding its 17th Annual Northern Conference on Sunday, 12 May 2019 at the Greater Manchester Police Training College, Prestwich.

The conference programme and registration form is now available to download on this link

http://tinyurl.com/JGSGB17thNorthernConf

or by accessing our society website  https://www.jgsgb.org.uk/

This is a full-day programme with five speakers covering a wide range of interesting topics:

North West Jews of the First World War: A new database – Paula Kitching
From Dusseldorf to Manchester via the Isle of Man and other internment camps – Rob David
Catching Up with FamilySearch – Sharon Hintze
A British Jew considers a German Passport – Robert Voss CBE
DNA for Genealogy: Interpreting your results – Donna Rutherford

Registration is now open and the event is open to members and non-members of JGSGB alike.

Ticket price is £27.50 per person and includes refreshments during the day, a  kosher buffet lunch and free, secure on-site parking. The registration form is in the programme document.
For any more information or queries, contact   
manchester.genealogy@gmail.com
or phone 0734 234 2881

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 ... 9