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If you are on Facebook, I would recommend joining the group "MacDonnell /MacDonell Glengarry Genealogy”.

Sorting out the Clan Iain Ruadh (CIR) groupings can be confusing, one person on a genealogy site offered up this thought that I have come to believe is probably more correct than not: briefly and paraphrasing... There is a high probability that there were quite a number of highland families that used the fairly common name of CIR.   

There is also confusion and debate as to whether it was really a separate "officially" recognized Clan or a Sept, or whether there was a Clan and a couple aligned septs occupying different areas, still foggy.  Did it arise to such a level of power as to be recognized as a Clan?

I can easily think that there were probably at least three CIR groupings based on current DNA, old trees and family lore:

1) the Haplo R1a chiefly line CIR that is referred to in old Clan Donald family trees.  Assuming that the Y DNA signature was not replaced at some point with an R1b, which would really scramble some eggs ?

2) the Haplo R1b CIR that is mentioned in history occupying the Glenmoriston area well before and during the Grant importation, and by existing DNA signatures and scant family lore of two individuals who lived in the hills above Glenmoriston (unknown whether they or their relatives are still alive),  this CIR grouping appears to be aligned with the R-BY150 Y group.

3) Another Haplo R1b CIR that appears to be associated with Loupe/Knoydart yet different than the Glenmoriston group (for at least the last 800 years) and looks to be associated with the above Peter as R-BY154. 

I have a number of john roy McD's in a branch of my tree who herald from Knoydart, but their Haplo group is I-M253 which is a common Viking marker.  Nonetheless I wonder if they are a"sept" or groupie, lol, of CIR?

Are there more CIR groupings out there, probably.  Is what I state above potentially inaccurate, you bet.  More testing and research will be required, sigh. 

I think someone told me that the Clan McDonald DNA website designated the 2nd group above as being CIR, that would be somewhat erroneous in that there appear to be at least three separate groupings as indicated above, so maybe a little premature if not deficient in scope.

Very Interesting Kevin,

Most of the clan Iain Ruadh lines from Glenmoriston Ontario are BY154 with the exception as you have noted as I-M253.

In the book Story and Song from the Loch Ness-Side by Alexander Macdonald he notes that “…The Glen was held of the Lord of the Isles by four or five families of the Mac-Donald Clan, as vassals, who survive in local story as " Clann-Iain-Ruaidh," " Clann-Iain-Chaoil," " Clann-Ill-Easbuig," " Clann-Eoghainn-Bhain," and " Clann-Alasdair." As a rule, the chief among these, who would appear latterly to have been " Mac-Iain-Ruaidh,….”.

Alexander Macdonald was a direct paternal descendant of the lann-Iain-Chaoil.  Interesting to note that he mentions that the Glen was held by four or five families of the Mac-Donald Clan but does not mention any connection between the Families, unlike William MacKay (who wrote URQUHART AND GLENMORISTON OLDEN TIMES IN A HIGHLAND PARISH).

William MacKay in his book stated: "There were five Septs of Macdonalds in Glenmoriston—Clann Iain Ruaidh, Clann Iain Chaoil, Clann Eobhainn Bhain, Sliochd Ghilleasbuig, and Clann Alasdair Choire-Dho. The first four were descended from four sons of Iain Mor Ruidh nan Stop.”.

I am a Minnesota, American whose MacDonald's, Macdonell's came out of Glengarry, Ontario, Canada.  I have great detail on my line back to "John (Ian) Roy (Rory) (Ruari) Macdonnell" who came to the Mohawk Valley, New York, on the ship "The Pearl", with his son Duncan, in 1773. John was a loyalist during the Revolutionary war and escaped to Ontario with his military company in 1784 and settled.  All Canadian info suggests that he was from Knoydart, but no specifics.  There were at least 7 John Macdonell's or MacDonald's on the Pearl.  John is of Hugh "Out in 45", who is of Ian Mor, of Rory, of Donald, of John Mor, of Ruari, etc. I cannot keep track of when the name changes from MacDonald to Macdonell, and then back to MacDonald in Canada.  I would so much like to pin point this family in Scotland.  I have visited Scotland once (but no one place to home in on) and will be going to Glengarry, Ontario, Canada in one week to do some Canadian research.

John's son Roderick, my 4th ggrandfather was also supposedly born in Knoydart abt 1745, his son Dougald, my 3rd ggrandfather was also supposedly born in Knoydart abt 1779.  Dougald, of Roderick, of John Roy, of Hugh - has become somewhat of a mantra for me.  If anyone has any connection or info on this families location or history. in Scotland, I would be eternally grateful!

staceypea,

Do you have contact with a living male who is a direct paternal descendant of this line?  If so, Y DNA will get you a very good idea/if not tell you out eight what the kinship of this line is to other MacDonald’s who’s ancestors have roots in the Glengarry Ontario area. 

Wondering whether anyone reading this thread has a paper tail or a Family Tradition  of being a direct paternal descendant (or has a Father, brother, or male 1st cousin who is) of Clan iain Ruadh?  If so, very interested to hear from you.  Please post a reply.