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Messages - sw1

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Aberdeenshire / Re: Elspet Jane PIRIE
« on: Friday 23 March 18 18:41 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you so much...I am feel as if I am on track now (minus the name Elspeth!!!!!!!)
We'll be in touch.

Aberdeenshire / Re: Elspet Jane PIRIE
« on: Friday 23 March 18 11:19 GMT (UK)  »

I am obviously going to have to look at this again. I apologise if I have offended you and Monica - tat was NOT my intention at all.  I admit I haven't got round to finding the 1881 and 1891 censuses you mention, but will do so shortly. If they are not on Ancestry, I have a friend who has FindMyPast and they might be there.

But I did find an Elsie Pirie aged 17 at 31 Bank Street, Old Machar as a domestic servant in 1881.
(ED38/148/123). That could tie in with Elspet aged 7 with her family in 1871.

Sometimes I find I can't think outside the box quick enough with conundrums like this!!!
Thank you again,

Aberdeenshire / Re: Elspet Jane PIRIE
« on: Friday 23 March 18 09:03 GMT (UK)  »
To Monica and Annette.
Thank you for all your input so far.
Annette...I saw your suggestion of John and Jane. I too downloaded that birth of Jane Pirie and saw the parent's marriage noted on there. Dowloaded that too but it is not the right family because Jane Pirie named her parents as Alexander Pirie and Jane MS Thain (I think it was). Elspet's parents were William Pirie and Jane DUNN. In addition, it cannot have been my Elspet that married in Portsoy in 1872 as she would only have been 9 years old!!

Every time Elspet mentioned her parents in documents, they are down as Elspet Jane Pirie and John Findlay.
Mother Elspet Jane b 1863. Parents William Pirie and Jane Dunn.
Daughter Elspet Jane b 1879 Parents John Findlay and Elspet Jane Pirie
The daughter did sign her name as Elsie Findlay on her own daughter's birth certificate.

I now need to look at all the other responses.
Thank you to you both and everyone....we'll get there in the end.


Aberdeenshire / Re: Elspet Jane PIRIE
« on: Thursday 22 March 18 20:17 GMT (UK)  »
No, not marked as deceased. Just checked very in file.
Suzie (on iPad so laptop shut down!)

Aberdeenshire / Re: Elspet Jane PIRIE
« on: Thursday 22 March 18 19:47 GMT (UK)  »

Yes, that is the correct 1901 census. And I agree Maggie Bell NICOL should be aged 3.
The address on her birth certificate is 3 Farrier Lane, same as the accommodation address father David gave on his marriage certificate.  Am wondering where the BELL name came from; stumped on that one at present but that can definitely wait for another day!!!

The marriage in 1900 for David Wilson Nicol is to the daughter of Elspeth Jane b. 1863 isn't it?
Yes, it is.

Well, some of this info is slightly wrong.
David Wilson NICOL was b 2 Jun 1877. I have that birth certificate.
Their marriage was 27 Feb 1900. I have that certificate too.

I do not have David's death certificate.

Have you checked Elsie's death to see what it said about her parents?
No, not done that either. Think that might be the next option. But the website details you sent have the same parents as those she named in the marriage certificate. However, I might just see what that says.

I browsed the 1891 and 1901 for FINDLAY a labourer at gas works this afternoon till my eyes were out on sticks, but nothing came up.
Looked for Elspet jnr in 1881 (aged 2)but she's nowhere. She's definitely not with her father-in-law's side;  so that just leaves the Findlay side?????

It's a real mystery
Thanks for all your input so far.

PS: Just seen your latest post. She named her parents on the marriage certificate as John Findlay, labourer at gas works and Elspet Jane Findlay MS Pirie.  However, on Maggie Bell Nicol's birth certificate, the mother signed as Elsie Findlay. Father also signed as David W Nicol - because they were not yet married!

Thank you too for the 1911 index. Where did you get that from?

I wonder if I'll sleep tonight?
Thank you again.


Aberdeenshire / Re: Elspet Jane PIRIE
« on: Thursday 22 March 18 18:50 GMT (UK)  »

Yes, as I thought....
Daughter of William Pirie and Jane Dunn. Correct address of family too.
No sign of illegitimacy.


Aberdeenshire / Re: Elspet Jane PIRIE
« on: Thursday 22 March 18 18:45 GMT (UK)  »

I just have details of the certificate from Scotlands People but have not downloaded it to be honest. She was the 4th of 8 children in that family (William Pirie and Jane Dunn) and appeared with her parents in 1871 aged 7 named Elspet.

In 1901 I have her as the wife of David Wilson Nicol as per the marriage of 27 Feb 1900 details of which I gave in my first post. 

This afternoon, I have trawled the 1881 and 1891 but to no avail. I also looked for a John Findlay/Findley, a gas worker in 1901 but nothing came up.   It's a real mystery.  I am 99.9% convinced that if I pay to download the birth of Elsie b 1863 it will show her parents as per the 1871 census. BUT....having just looked at the years of birth of all the children...they are all 2 years between them except Elspet, so maybe I should download the certificate to be sure.

The 1900 marriage of John Findlay to Jane Pirie at Peterhead is NOT my Elspet (Elsie) Jane Pirie.


Aberdeenshire / Re: Elspet Jane PIRIE
« on: Thursday 22 March 18 17:24 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you, Wendy.  I'll have a look at that.

Aberdeenshire / Elspet Jane PIRIE
« on: Thursday 22 March 18 11:31 GMT (UK)  »
I have a problem with a PIRIE.  Doing research for a friend and this is one big stumbling block.

Elspet Jane PIRIE b 1863 Old Machar, dau of William PIRIE and Jane Dunn. 
She appears in the 1871 census with her family.

Next appearance is as the named mother on the marriage certificate of her daughter, Elspet (Elsie) Jane FINDLAY  marriage certificate when she married David Wilson NICOL.
Marriage: 27 Feb 1900.  David Wilson Nicol, bachelor and labourer aged 22, married Elspet Jane Findlay, spinster and provision worker aged 21, married after publication according to the forms of the established Church of Scotland on 27 Feb 1900 at 57 Queen Street, Aberdeen. David's accommodation noted as 3 Farrier Lane, Aberdeen and Elspet's accommodation noted as 57 Queen Street, Aberdeen. David's parents named as George Nicol, trawler engine fitter, deceased and Elizabeth Nicol MS McAllister. Elspet's parents named as John Findlay, labourer at gas works and Elspet Jane Findlay MS Pirie. Witnesses were James Jamieson and James Williamson.

David and Elspet had a daughter, Maggie Bell NICOL b 1898, 2 years before they were married and Maggie is marked as illegitimate on her birth certificate; mother signed as Elsie Findlay. Father also signed the birth certificate. Where does the name BELL come from?  But thatís another problem!

I tried to find a birth of Elspet Jane FINDLAY and found a possibility dated Dec 1879. Father John Findlay; mother Jane Pirie; married 1872 Portsoy. Downloaded that marriage only to find that the mother named her parents as Alexander PIRIE and Ann, so back to square one.

There is a possible marriage at Peterhead in 1900 but that canít be right! They are on the 1901 census with a young son James.

I am beginning to wonder if Elsieís mother, Elspet b 1863 gave birth to Elsie as an illegitimate child. The mother would only have been 16 years old at the time! Sounds fishy to me.  But where did Elsie get her fatherís name of John FINDLAY from???

If anyone can help out here, Iíd be enormously grateful. There are so many PIRIE and FINDLAY in Aberdeenshire the words haystack and pin often come to mind!!  Thank you for reading all this so far!

Suzie (in Orkney)

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