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Messages - Nowecious

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1
Clackmannanshire / Re: HAVILAND or HAVELAND of Dollar
« on: Monday 09 March 15 23:58 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you to all who replied to my query.  So Fred'k was not a true blue Scot after all. :-[
Briefly:.......Susanna Robina (née Carr) Nightingale was the 2nd wife of Peter WOODNORTH (b.Cheshire), of Whitehaven Pottery, Cumberland.  He sold out of the pottery & moved to Liverpool & took over her trunk & Venetian Blind business when they married.  Peter's son George (1st Mate on a ship) & Susanna's dtr Jane got married in London (maybe they eloped??) and had dtr Robina Carr Woodnorth, who marr Samuel KELLY (Liverpool Irish?). George came ashore & managed a branch of the family business in L'pool. In 1851 George & Jane are on their own: In 1861, Jane(16) is up in Logie, Perthshire, with the Haviland family, and George W Haviland(15) is down in Liverpool listed as a 'grandson' of Susanna, along with 2 of Peter's grandsons.
  Re the will - I wondered if it was George W's sister Margaret who was the beneficiary. Steel(e) & Hall were names of neighbours of the family in Cheshire, and also involved in the evangelical religious movements of the time. Margaret could have married & been widowed & remarried.... but I am not going to wade into all that line!
Thanks again for all the replies.
Nowecious.

Correction : it was young Robina up in Scotland (not Jane) in 1861.   Sorry.

2
Clackmannanshire / HAVILAND or HAVELAND of Dollar
« on: Sunday 08 March 15 01:34 GMT (UK)  »
Looking for information about this family, starting with Frederick Augustus HAVILAND (b.abt.1822, Lanarkshire) who married Margaret Nightingale, 1844 Liverpool. All their children b in Dollar. One of their sons is called GEORGE WOODNORTH HAVILAND, and I am wondering how the name Woodnorth got into the family.  The Woodnorths were a Shropshire/Cheshire family.  There is a rather obscure connection in that George was a lithographer, & partner in the firm of Aitken & Farie in Glasgow, & in South Shields, Durham, a John WOODNOT(H) =m= Mary Farie in 1692: they had a son, Farie Woodnot/noth, 1692.  Nothing more known.
   Can anybody help?   Nowecious.

3
Australia / Re: LEBHERZ - Immigration & Emigration
« on: Friday 09 August 13 13:09 BST (UK)  »
Hello.  I think you are a bit out with that.  I have quite a long tree of that family, going back to the early 1700s (kindly supplied by a lady in Salt Lake City.)
Johannes/John LEBHERZ (b.1858 - d.1925 in NZ) married 1st Hannah Jane HOUGHTON in Brisbane, 1878.  She died in childbirth in 1893, and he remarried to Emmeline (née Wakelin) Wilson in 1896.  Children (7) of the 1st marriage include Florence Rosina Emily (the names are sometimes switched around) who was the 6th child.  She became  the 2nd wife of Harry TOOMER (after his first wife & 2 dtrs were drowned in the wreck of the "Penguin") and their children were 1911 Cyril John; 1914 Harold Harry; 1916 Ronald Harry; 1920 Violet Florence.
Harold Harry TOOMER married Dorothy Mary Forrester.
   If you can send me your e-mail privately, I can give you more info.
If you are in Brisbane, there is another Toomer/Lebherz descendant living down on the Gold Coast who you could probably contact.  Bfn.

4
Australia / Re: LEBHERZ - Immigration & Emigration
« on: Saturday 23 June 12 02:30 BST (UK)  »
Humble Apologies.  It was late at night, and I thought I had clicked on the right icon. (Excuses-excuses).      Nowecious.

5
Australia / Re: LEBHERZ - Immigration & Emigration
« on: Friday 22 June 12 09:16 BST (UK)  »
Hello again Kathy.  The info I have got from Oz BMD records shows John's second wife as Emmeline WAKELIN, and this is what is on his Death Cert. Perhaps that was her maiden name? The 20-year age gap between Jacob & John had had  me wondering if they were perhaps father & son, or brothers at each end of the sibling line. And no, I haven't been able to track down Hannah Jane either, although on John's D/C she is referred to as JANE BURKE, so it looks as if she was known by Jane & not Hannah, but as for Burke...???.
  From one of the previous contributors on this page, a Conrad & Rosine Lebherz came out in 1863, and Jacob & Johann (John) were in that family. Conrad could be your "John C. ", but  Rosine/Catherine ?? Did he too have a 2nd marriage?  You can contact me separately at (*)  so that we don't run out of space. I am waiting for Marr certs from Brisbane so that I can see  if John was "wid" or "div" when he remarried.
Look forward to hearing from you.

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6
Australia / Re: LEBHERZ - Immigration & Emigration
« on: Thursday 21 June 12 10:19 BST (UK)  »
Hello Kathy.Wow! That is a surprise.
John's Death Cert states that he belonged to the "Pentecostal
Church".  I am sure the boys would be thrilled to hear any information you could provide.  I have been wondering why the messages on the boards all seem to be chasing up other descendant lines (i.e. other children of John & Hannah Jane) but seem to ignore the family who came to NZ.
  I have a studio photo of Florence Emily Rosina and her husband Harry Toomer on their wedding day which I would be happy to forward to you. Also, if you have access to PapersPast, there are articles in Evening Post (Wellington) 14th March 1910; and Wairarapa Daily Times 31st July 1909; plus a couple of minor ads; and the wedding announcement (12th Oct.1910).
 Can I contact you separately to send the photo as an attachment? I will contact that part of the family to see if they have any other photos, although I doubt if they would be able to identify any older members of the family (unless someone had written the details on the back of a photo.)
I look forward to hearing from you again

7
Australia / Re: LEBHERZ - Immigration & Emigration
« on: Tuesday 05 June 12 12:27 BST (UK)  »
Hello again everybody.  I got John Lebherz's d/c,(1925), but it is not all that helpful. For instance it lists Living Issue as 3 males, 46, 42, and 39, which fits in nicely for Arthur John Conrad (Snr), Alfred William Jacob and Joseph Francis Samuel, but it makes no mention of daughters Catherine Mary Jane (who married CLAYTON) or Florence Emily Rosine (who married Harry TOOMER) - and she died 1929.
  It states that he had been in NZ for 17 years, but he & Emiline, and son AWJ & wife, are in the 1905 Oxley/Coorparoo Electoral Roll. Next found in the 1908 NZ Roll.  On Florence's ITM, Oct.1910,  she states she has been in Wellington for 3 years, which would indicate that they must have emigrated 1906/7.  John would probably have had to be resident for about 12 months before getting on to the Electoral Roll. I was told by both National Library & Archives NZ that it was highly unlikely that I would find out what ship they came out on, as by then the immigration schemes had finished, so unless someone has the family legend containing the name of the ship, that is a brick wall.
    I was told by the old man I met, who was son of Harry & Florence, that the le Bherz family in Christchurch (where the Toomers came from) was connected.    Bfn.  Nowecious.

8
Australia / Re: LEBHERZ - Immigration & Emigration
« on: Thursday 17 May 12 00:28 BST (UK)  »
Thank you mum mum & Gerry.
I think my next move will be to get John's Death cert. (NZ) I think you (Gerry) have the right family on the Johann Cesar, as the names Conrad & Rosine/a are perpetuated in later generations.  They are not common names, although they might have been in that place at that time.  I have a suspicion that Jacob Fr. was a brother; he was married in 1870. Both families seem to like giving their childen 2-3 given names.
  I tried the NZ-BMD online last evening, but they 'said' that there were no Lebherz or Le Bherz entries???  Maybe the weather was affecting cyberspace (electrical storms) so I will try again today.
  Re the Houghtons - on the copy of their marriage entry, her maiden name is given as HOUTEN, so I will try for that spelling.
Thanks again for your help.

9
Australia / Re: LEBHERZ - Immigration & Emigration
« on: Wednesday 16 May 12 10:35 BST (UK)  »
Thank you Ruskie, dylansmother & Aussie1947.
Interesting about the bankruptcy in 1888, but (presuming it was the same John) he had dtr Florence in Sept of that year, and another son in Nov.1890, who died Jan 1891, before moving.
  There was another l-a-r-g-e  Lebherz family (13 kids) there at the same time, so they might have been related.  They are likely to have been German, but could also have been Swiss.
  No, I haven't yet got John's D/c - just found out today that it was 1925 (under the spelling Le Bherz).  He was also on the Aliens' List of 1917, and it looks as if he was naturalised on 25.5.1925.  So if I don't have any joy with the D/c, I could try the Naturalisation declaration.  I can also try the old Brisbane newspaper (Courier Mail?) if it is online, to find out the details of the bankruptcy.  By reading the reports in the old papers, I learnt a lot about the life of one of my Gt-grandfathers who also went bankrupt in the 1880s.

Thanks again for your suggestions.

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