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Messages - Forfarian

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Lanarkshire / Re: ALEXANDER HEANEY
« on: Today at 13:18 »
I believe the name Eoin (not sure of 'correct' spelling) can be termed as Hugh/Ewen & even morphs into John although I have never worked out how/why ???

The Scots Gaelic equivalent of John is Iain. Ewan or Euan or Ewen etc is an anglicisation of the Gaelic name Eoghan, and also equivalent to Welsh Owen. Hugh is Uisdean in Scots Gaelic. Not too hard to get them all mixed up if you are only hearing them rather than spelling them (and we all know that there is no such thing as 'correct' spelling!) and you are unsure whether the person speaking them is speaking Scots Gaelic, Irish Gaelic or English!

See also

Seems that OP doesn't like what has been found, but I can report that the Alexander Turner who died in 1969 was the widower of Mary Gray Walker and the son of Neil Turner and Sophia Edwards. So back to the drawing board.

Yes, I see that you have a lot more information than you originally stated, and the inclusion of Adam Hay as a witness does strengthen the case for Alexander being related to at least one Adam Hay.

You say that George was baptised by Bishop Skinner (See This is quite significant, because it means that they must have been adherents of the Episcopal Church. The generally available baptism and marriage records are the registers of the Church of Scotland, the Roman Catholic Church and some of the minor, mainly presbyterian, churches. In theory the C of S was supposed to record all baptisms and marriages irrespective of which denomination the people belonged to, but this did not always happen.

So if I were you I would be trying to find out whether the relevant Episcopalian registers have survived and if so where they are. If they are available, they could possibly contain information about the marriage of Alexander Hay to Grace Farquhar, the baptisms of George, Jane and possibly intervening children, and the deaths of Grace Farquhar and Marjory jr.

I would start by contacting the Episcopal diocesan office of Aberdeen, the Aberdeen Archives and the Aberdeen University Archives.

You are right that adults' ages in the census were rounded down to the nearest 5 years. Unless there is an error in the FreeCEN transcription (Have you seen the original? What does it say?) which lists her age as 30, Marjory cannot be as young as 25. She has to be between 30 and 34 years old, in other words born between 8 June 1806 and 7 June 1811.

I would not place too much reliance on ages reported on death certificates - they can be out by several years. Children's ages, even in 1841, are more usually correct. Do not dismiss the possibility that Jane and Marjory Jr are two different children.

The wording of the baptism of Marjory is of exactly the form used when the recording of a baptism has been delayed, and the parents can remember when the child was born but not when he or she was actually baptised. I would read it as saying that Marjory was born on 5 October 1838.

Now for a bit of speculation. I note that according to the 1841 census (FreeCEN) Alexander was born in Aberdeenshire and Marjory was not.

Noting that the IGI lists four children of Adam Hay and Margaret Bruce
Adam Alexander, baptised 1838
James, born 1855
Joseph, born 1857
Margaret Andrew, born 1861

that the 1841 census (FreeCEN) lists
Adam, tailor, 25; Margaret, 25; William, 5; Adam, 2; and George, 1

that the 1851 census (FreeCEN) lists
Adam, tailor, 38, born Turriff; Margaret, 36, born Banff; George, 11; Alexander, 8; John, 6; Leslie, 4; Ann, 2; Burnet, 6 months

and that the 1861 census (FreeCEN) lists
Adam, 48, tailor, born Turriff; Margaret, 46, born Banff; John, 24; Leslie, 14; Ann, 11; Burnett, 9; Duncan, 7; James, 5; and Joseph, 3

I am wondering if this Adam and Margaret could be a brother of Alexander and/or sister of Marjory. If they were, and they were Episcopalian, it would acoount for all those children missing from the baptism records. At the very least, I would want to take a look at the birth certificate of James in 1855.

Obviously, if Adam was a tailor, he isn't the labourer who was a witness at whichever baptism. That could have been the child's grandfather.

I also see that Marjory is named as Marjory Hay, previously Ross, M S Bruce. Could Jane be a daughter of this previous marriage, adopted at such a young age by Alexander that she believed herself to be his biological daughter?

Aberdeenshire / Re: Alexander Hay. Cannot find parents
« on: Yesterday at 17:57 »
Let's go back to basics.

Alexander Hay and Marjory Bruce were married in Aberdeen on 29 October 1836 and had two recorded children
Marjory, baptised 5 October 1838, St Nicholas
Alexander, baptised 23 December 1840, St Nicholas

The census lists at Love Lane, Spittal, Old Machar
Alexander Hay, 30, mason; Marjory Hay, 30; George Hay, 10; Jean Hay, 5; Alexander Hay, 5 months.

Marjory, born 1838, would have been only 2 on census day 1841. Jean/Jane, if aged 5 on census day 1841, would have been born between 8 June 1835 and 7 June 1836, but in any case before Alexander married Marjory. Therefore I do not think that Jean is Marjory with a change of name. Checking the burial records might shed some light on this.

So who, then, are George and Jean? They could be Alexander's children by a previous marriage, Marjory's children by a previous marriage, or they could be illegitimate children of one or both of Alexander or Marjory.

What evidence do you have for thinking that Alexander's parents were Adam Hay and Jean Milne?

Aberdeenshire / Re: Binnie - Meldrum
« on: Saturday 20 May 17 08:33 BST (UK)  »
I either transcribed Alexanders birth in Aberdeen or got from familysearch Im not sure was a long time ago.
Golden rule No 1. Never trust anything you find online unless it is an image of an original document. So be wary of anything found on Familysearch (and Ancestry, Findmypast, MyHeritage etc etc) - use them as finding aids, not as definitive sources.

Scotland / Re: The girls' given name, "Helen Watson"
« on: Saturday 20 May 17 07:42 BST (UK)  »
So far, I havenít studied all the cases to see if there any common denominators. It doesnít look like all the family who used this name all belonged to the same religious groups but I might be wrong on that. To me, it looks like a case of some famous woman, perhaps within a certain religious group, being honoured, someone who was probably born in the second half of the 18th century.
Well, I cannot produce any evidence for or against that except to point out that no-one, so far, has heard of this hypothetical famous Helen Watson.

I am not convinced that double christian names, such as Mary Ann, are analogous to double names consisting of a christian name followed by a surname as middle name. I have seen Mary Anns turning up in later records as Marion or Marianne, and vice versa, in other words Mary Ann was seen as a single composite name sometimes spelled as two words. You could never take Helen Watson to be a composite name in the same way.

Why not try an experiment? Take another pair of names at random and do a similar analysis. Say Elizabeth Wilson, or Mary Donaldson, or even Ann Wright. In each case a common given name and a common surname. If they show a similar pattern, i.e. the double name only begins to appear about 1800 and gets commoner with time, would that not be of interest?

You could also investigate each of the Helen Watson xxxs you have found, and eliminate any who have a grandparent or great-grandparent named Watson, and see if there is a pattern among those left over.

And if you don't know the name of Daniel's mother, you can't dismiss the likelihood that she was Helen Watson, which is by far the  most likely explanation.

Scotland / Re: The girls' given name, "Helen Watson"
« on: Friday 19 May 17 09:54 BST (UK)  »
Margaret Primrose was born in Linlithgow, Cramond, Midlothian in about 1782.
Where did that come from? Linlithgow and Midlothian are mutually exclusive.

Her mother's name was apparently Janet Rankin, as shown on Margaret's death certificate. But the identity of "Mr Primrose" is unknown. This becomes something of a scenario out of a Victorain novel because the Linlithgow area was "Primrose territory", i.e. several estates owned by the Earls of Rosebury, i.e., the Primrose family. But no connection has been found between my Margaret Primrose and the Earl's family!
I take it that you have checked Cramond Kirk Session minutes checked to see if they say anything about her birth?

She & her husband, Daniel McGregor seem to have been humble 'servants' or similar, according to the census returns. They married in 1800 in Dalmeny, West Lothian.
Their second child was named, "Helen Watson McGregor", b. 1803, Cramond, Midlothian.
What was the name of Daniel's mother? Did they name a child after her? If so, was if the first child?

Their third child was Isabell McGregor, b. 1806, Cramond. She married James Aitkenhead, probably in about 1825, and probably in either Cramond or Edinburgh city.
The seventh child of Isabell McGregor & James Aitkenhead was Helen Watson Aitkenhead, b. 1843, Duddingston, Midlothian.
It could be that she was named after Isabell's sister, of course.

Aberdeenshire / Re: Binnie - Meldrum
« on: Friday 19 May 17 09:53 BST (UK)  »
Alexander was b Mildren Belhevie
From the map and the 1841 Census possibly MILLDEN Belhelvie -
Ah, that makes more sense. I've never heard of a place called Mildren and I was wondering if it was a garbled version of Meldrum. There are of course dozens of places called Millden all over the country.

Alexander was b Mildren Belhevie reg in Foveram
This is a bit odd, because Foveran and Belhelvie are mutually exclusive - they are two neighbouring parishes. I see that the IGI listing of Alexander's baptism is 'community contributed' and that there is no corresponding listing in the index at Scotland's People. Where did this bit of information come from? Why would he have been 'registered' in Foveran if he was born in Belhelvie?

Aberdeenshire / Re: Fraserburgh Pilot
« on: Thursday 18 May 17 18:24 BST (UK)  »
Just to clarify a bit, all commercial harbours employ pilots.

The job of a pilot is to go out to ships when they approach the port, and take over the steering until the ship is safely berthed. When a ship departs, the pilot takes her out of the port to the open sea, and then leaves the ship.

The idea is that the pilots know all the local quirks, pitfalls and problems and are thus better qualified to navigate into a port than a captain who may never have visited it before.

I have a pilot friend who tells some wonderful tales about the job, especially about captains who refuse to accept a pilot and then fall foul of weird eddies or currents while attempting, unsuccessfully, to dock.

I would say that being a pilot is quite prestigious and respected. It requires lots of experience at sea, in handling ships and good detailed knowledge of the home port.

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