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Messages - Eric Hatfield

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Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / Re: Family history coincidences
« on: Thursday 10 January 19 09:39 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Steve, thanks for the encouragement. I understand this stuff about triangulation, but in my eagerness I sometimes forget it. We need three matches to triangulate, not just two!   8)

Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / Re: Family history coincidences
« on: Thursday 10 January 19 06:31 GMT (UK)  »
Hello again Margaret,

I've been thinking more about it, and I was wrong. It was a beginners' mistake and I fell into it.

D and A both match me on the same segment, but that doesn't mean they match each other there, for there are two sides to every chromosome. We can only know that A & D are related if they match each other on that segment, which they don't.

So I relate to A on one side of that chromosome and to D on the other side of that chromosome, so I got some of that DNA from each of them, but it is different DNA, and they are not related.

It was a silly mistake, but I made it anyway. Let that be a lesson to me!

Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / Another report from the trenches
« on: Thursday 10 January 19 00:35 GMT (UK)  »
Hello again Margaret,

I saw your link, thanks and I may comment there too, maybe.

This is starting to worry me. The info in my last comment was from my chromosome browser, where I compared my maternal aunt (A), my maternal cousin (C) and my paternal first cousin twice removed (D). I will focus here on the A-D match.

On my browser, I match with both of them on three segments. One I can read off the value, but the others are only partially overlapping so I have to estimate. The 3 segment values in cM are 32.0 and approximately  6 and 12, a total of about 50 cM. There could possibly be other segments in common between A & D which I don't share and so don't appear on my browser.

So I thought I would check that, and looked up A's DNA results, where D should (on the basis of my browser results) be one of the top matches. But D doesn't appear at all on A's DNA list, not if I search, not at all.

How can that be? Am I missing something, or is there some glitch here somewhere?

Any thoughts? Perhaps I should see if there's a My Heritage forum and ask there.

Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / Re: Family history coincidences
« on: Wednesday 09 January 19 23:01 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Margaret, just another example. (Now my mind is open to it, I can see these strange coincidences in more than one place.)

I have a good match on My Heritage (call him D) - 12 segments totally 219 cM. I wrote to D and found that he was my first cousin twice removed, on my father's side (his great grandfather was my father's brother, but my father was born 20 years after his GGfather, so he has 4 generations to MRCA and I have only 2). So that relationship is quite clear.

But when I check on the MH chromosome browser, D has three smaller segments in common with my maternal cousin (largest = 13 cM) , and 3 more different segments in common with my maternal aunt (largest = 32 cM).

I know of no other connection between my father and mother's families (though they all did for a time live in Melbourne) yet there are these DNA connections. 32 cM isn't a small segment, and if I add up approximately the total matches between D and them, they would be about 36 cM (cousin) and 52 cM (aunt). That would suggest relationships about 4th cousin and 3rd cousin once removed, which both fit with a MRCA 5 generations back.

I'm not aware of such a connection, but I know my father's family tree very well, and probably know enough of my maternal grandfather's tree (which it has to be since my aunt is actually only a half aunt) that I ought to be able to find this connection. It is very curious to me, and I will let you know if I can find anything, just out of interest.

Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / Re: Family history coincidences
« on: Tuesday 08 January 19 01:14 GMT (UK)  »
That's an interesting story, Margaret. Perhaps these double connections aren't as uncommon as we think. I may see if I can find some research on the subject.

Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / Family history coincidences
« on: Saturday 05 January 19 21:51 GMT (UK)  »
I have come across some matches that appeared quite strange to me, but which I now believe are simply coincidences. I'm interested to hear if others have had similar discoveries.

I and my aunt have both had our aDNA tested, as have my wife and her mother. There are no known connections between my wife's family and mine, except for our marriage, and our ancestors all came from different parts of the UK (Scotland and southwest England for my wife, and Ireland and Yorkshire for me). Yet it turns out that a person I'll call A matches both sides of these families, one side within the last 5 generations (according to the DNA match) and the other more distantly.

At first I thought there must be some mistake, but discussion on another thread here has suggested to me that this must be the sort of coincidence that happens from time to time. On my side of the family, the common ancestor with A is likely to be about 5 generations back, when I would have 64 4G grandparents, and on my wife's side, if the MRCA is 8 generations back then there would be potentially (I think) 512 7G grandparents. Those grandparents would have thousands of descendants alive today, and somewhere someone from each line got together to produce A.

You would think that people living far apart in UK would be unlikely to get together, but two things show me this isn't necessarily the case:
  • I and A both live in Australia, and when families emigrated to Australia they could end up anywhere and the likelihood of this mixing is much greater than back in UK.
  • I have a well documented case in my wife's family tree of a poor 23 year old servant girl from Aberdeenshire ending up as a servant in southern England (Sussex) in 1901 while the rest of the family stayed in Scotland.
There is a further coincidence in my case. My maternal grandmother was adopted and her adoptive parents appear in A's tree. Adoptions could occur back then (1891) when a family member had an "inconvenient" child, but I think this is just another coincidence - I don't think they are biologically related to me and the source of the connection with A, because my aunt isn't related to that grandmother but she also matches A.
I'm wondering if others have found similar unlikely results that turned out to be coincidences?

Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / Re: Strange results at My Heritage?
« on: Saturday 05 January 19 21:20 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Margaret,

If descendants of B and C in A's line marry descendants from D's line, A will match all of you, will be closer related to you than your wife and will have ancestors from both Yorkshire and SW England.

I think something like this must be the explanation. Using the hypothetical figures you have used, there would be 64 4G grandparents on one side and 512 7G grandparents on the other side (if I have calculated correctly). Each of these would have many, many descendants today. It just requires two of these descendants to have got together to produce A - unlikely to happen all that often I guess, but must happen sometimes, especially when people from different parts of UK migrate to Australia. I just haven't seen it before myself.

Then there is the coincidence of there being not only a DNA match, but also a paper match with my grandmother's adoptive parents.

Examine A's tree for any likely intermarriages between the four main areas of interest.

A only has a small tree, with only one line going back very far, and that is the one who has my grandmother's adoptive parents in it. I have messaged A, but no answer yet.

I suggest you start a new thread, without mentioning myheritage or Smart Matches. People may feel your original question has been answered without reading through it.

Yes you are right. I originally thought it was an artefact of the filtered match process, but I agree now that it isn't, and that was a red herring. I can now ask a quite different question. So I will start a new discussion. Thanks.

Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / Re: Strange results at My Heritage?
« on: Saturday 05 January 19 21:07 GMT (UK)  »
I too got a smart matches email from MyHeritage

Hi Jane, yes I agree, many "smart matches" or hints are dubious at best and quite obviously wrong at worst. But DNA matches are more objective, and it is that side of the double matches that I am querying.

Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / Re: Strange results at My Heritage?
« on: Saturday 05 January 19 12:03 GMT (UK)  »
OK, that make sense (although it is strange My Heritage allows that loophole). Thanks.

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