1
England / Re: What would you understand "kinsman" in a will to mean?
« on: Sunday 25 September 22 21:13 BST (UK) »
Thank you both, I feel better about that assumption now!
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2
England / What would you understand "kinsman" in a will to mean?
« on: Sunday 25 September 22 19:42 BST (UK) »
This is a will dated 1758. The will doesn't mention any wife, sons or daughters. It just says he leaves all to "KINSMAN Lawrence Rawstorn, son of John Rawstorne of Priestintax, when he is 25"
He also leaves a small legacy to "Nephew John Rawstorne"
Would you take this to mean John Rawstorne is the nephew and John's son Lawrence (technically great-nephew) is the 'kinsman'?
He also leaves a small legacy to "Nephew John Rawstorne"
Would you take this to mean John Rawstorne is the nephew and John's son Lawrence (technically great-nephew) is the 'kinsman'?
3
World War Two / Could anyone identify what service this woman belonged to (WWII, UK)
« on: Sunday 20 March 22 22:42 GMT (UK) »
One of these women is my grandmother, who was born in Feb 1928 and was only 17.5 years old when the war ended. So I would also be interested to know if this was likely during the war or perhaps afterwards? Thank you 
Link to image: https://ibb.co/rFXF06M
Link to image: https://ibb.co/rFXF06M
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Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / Might someone help me sense check the logic behind my DNA detective work?
« on: Thursday 03 February 22 10:16 GMT (UK) »
My mum was illegitimate, the result of a one-night stand, as a result my grandfather has never been known.
I have a 104cM 2nd/3rd cousin match, and after pooling my shared matches, he appears be in an unknown 'pool' which may correspond to my missing grandfather. The match is the same age as me, so as I understand it, the likelihood is that we share great-grandparents or great-great-grandparents.
Conveniently, I'm English and this match is Australian and only has one English grandparent, which narrows things down. Additionally, my Mum was born in Lancashire, and the match's English grandparent hails from Lancashire!
So my next step was to look at the match's great-grandparents and great-great grandparents in that line, and their other children, and follow a process of elimination to find somebody who was the right age, and in the right location, to get my grandma pregnant in Blackburn, Lancashire, in 1928.
I was able to eliminate quite a few people who:
This has left me with only five possibilities:
Match's 1C3R b. 1896 – married 1923 and lived in Leicestershire. 32 in 1928.
THIS WOULD MAKE ME THE MATCH’S 3C1R – 4% CHANCE
Match’s GG-Grand-Uncle b. 1881 – married 1906 and lived in Shropshire. 47 in 1928.
THIS WOULD MAKE ME THE MATCH’S 2C2R – 22% CHANCE
Match’s 1C2R b. 1891 – single and living in Manchester in 1911, later moved to Yorkshire. 37 in 1928.
THIS WOULD MAKE ME THE MATCH’S 3C – 22% CHANCE
Match’s 1C2R b. 1893 – married 1919 in Manchester, stayed in Manchester. 35 in 1928.
THIS WOULD MAKE ME THE MATCH’S 3C – 22% CHANCE
Match’s 1C2R b. 1897 – did not marry, died London 1942. 31 in 1928.
THIS WOULD MAKE ME THE MATCH’S 3C – 22% CHANCE
My grandma was 35 in 1928 when the liaison took place so most of them are the right age. I can't tie any of them specifically to being in Blackburn in 1928, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that they were visiting for some reason.
I'll have to do more digging, but does my basic logic seem sound? Is there anything I've missed, any flaws? Thank you so much
I have a 104cM 2nd/3rd cousin match, and after pooling my shared matches, he appears be in an unknown 'pool' which may correspond to my missing grandfather. The match is the same age as me, so as I understand it, the likelihood is that we share great-grandparents or great-great-grandparents.
Conveniently, I'm English and this match is Australian and only has one English grandparent, which narrows things down. Additionally, my Mum was born in Lancashire, and the match's English grandparent hails from Lancashire!
So my next step was to look at the match's great-grandparents and great-great grandparents in that line, and their other children, and follow a process of elimination to find somebody who was the right age, and in the right location, to get my grandma pregnant in Blackburn, Lancashire, in 1928.
I was able to eliminate quite a few people who:
- Died or emigrated before 1928
- Was an unrealistic age e.g. very old or very young in 1928
This has left me with only five possibilities:
Match's 1C3R b. 1896 – married 1923 and lived in Leicestershire. 32 in 1928.
THIS WOULD MAKE ME THE MATCH’S 3C1R – 4% CHANCE
Match’s GG-Grand-Uncle b. 1881 – married 1906 and lived in Shropshire. 47 in 1928.
THIS WOULD MAKE ME THE MATCH’S 2C2R – 22% CHANCE
Match’s 1C2R b. 1891 – single and living in Manchester in 1911, later moved to Yorkshire. 37 in 1928.
THIS WOULD MAKE ME THE MATCH’S 3C – 22% CHANCE
Match’s 1C2R b. 1893 – married 1919 in Manchester, stayed in Manchester. 35 in 1928.
THIS WOULD MAKE ME THE MATCH’S 3C – 22% CHANCE
Match’s 1C2R b. 1897 – did not marry, died London 1942. 31 in 1928.
THIS WOULD MAKE ME THE MATCH’S 3C – 22% CHANCE
My grandma was 35 in 1928 when the liaison took place so most of them are the right age. I can't tie any of them specifically to being in Blackburn in 1928, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that they were visiting for some reason.
I'll have to do more digging, but does my basic logic seem sound? Is there anything I've missed, any flaws? Thank you so much
6
England / Re: Could anybody help me trace any of these people back - Challinors in Oldham 1841
« on: Sunday 12 December 21 10:03 GMT (UK) »I thought I recognised this Challenor name.
You have made some posts before about this name - albeit on a different tack to this one.
Have you received the emails telling you there had been several replies from people who were trying to help you with your research on both these posts? Or looked at them to see what replies there were?
You have not replied to either of them.
A thank you goes a long way on Rootschat, where people may be more likely to try and help you next time you ask for help, as in life in general.
I replied several times, once saying "Ahh thank you, that's so helpful and thorough!" ??
I haven't replied to every reply because I don't want to clog up the thread or people's inboxes. On other forums I am a member of, it's best practice only to reply if you have something to add.
7
England / Could anybody help me trace any of these people back - Challinors in Oldham 1841
« on: Saturday 11 December 21 20:37 GMT (UK) »
I am looking at the Challinor family in Oldham. In 1841 there are 14 Challinors listed as living in Oldham on the census.
Many belong to one household - these are my direct ancestors who I know well - and can be discounted:
Head - William Challinor (45), wife Mary (45), children Joseph (20), William (15), Samuel (11), Ann (15), Mary (9), Mally (6), Elizabeth (3). Marriage and births all well-documented in local parish records, predominantly St Mary's Oldham and St Mary's Prestwich.
I am looking at the five 'other' Challinors in Oldham on the 1841 census, as I wish to establish if they have any connection with my own. These are, in 1841:
Household one:
Harriet Challender age 20
Cornelius Challender age 15
Ann Challender age 1
(All born in county)
Household two:
William Challinor – age 8 – living with Sarah and Hannah Bentley aged 35 and 9 respectively. Born in county.
Household three:
Margaret Challinor – age 7 – in Prestwich workhouse. Not born in county.
None of these individuals appear to be documented in parish records either in or outside of Oldham. I can't establish who they are or where they came from.
I have followed them forwards and have discovered a few parental names (which also don't seem to relate to any parish records) and that Cornelius does not appear to be a Challinor at all. Here are some select records going forwards:
Marriage for Harriet
March 1848 – Prestwich – James Robinson to Harriet Challender
Father: Richard Challender, Carter – witnesses Cornelius Healey, Martha Woolley
1851 census for Harriet and Ann - Oldham
Charlotte Calliner – head – widow - 53
James Robinson – son-in-law - 34
Harriet Robinson – daughter - 36
Ann Calliner – grand-daughter - 11
Mary Robinson grand-daughter – 2
(All born in Oldham)
Marriage for Cornelius Healey
Jun 1850 – Stockport – Cornelius Healey to Martha Woolley
1851 census for Cornelius – Stockport - the fact that the age tallies leads me to believe the Cornelius Challinor listed on the 1841 census was in fact Cornelius Healey, although I don't know why he was living with Harriet and Ann.
Cornelius Healy – Head – 25 – born Oldham
Martha Healy – Wife – 25 - born Stockport
John Wild – Son – 5 – born Oldham
Sarah Ann Woolley – Lodger – 25
James Woolley – Lodger – 2
Sarah Orvin Woolley – 2 months
Any assistance in untangling this or identifying who any of these various unidentified Challinors may relate to, or just pointers of where to look next, would be appreciated The individuals are:
Ann Challinor, born c. 1840 possibly to an unmarried Harriet
Harriet Challinor, born c. 1821 to Charlotte and Richard
Charlotte Challinor née Unknown, born c. 1798
Richard Challinor, born unknown, died before 1851
Margaret Challinor, born c. 1834
William Challinor, born c. 1833
Cornelius Healy / Challinor born c. 1826 - possibly not a Challinor at all - but connection unclear
Many belong to one household - these are my direct ancestors who I know well - and can be discounted:
Head - William Challinor (45), wife Mary (45), children Joseph (20), William (15), Samuel (11), Ann (15), Mary (9), Mally (6), Elizabeth (3). Marriage and births all well-documented in local parish records, predominantly St Mary's Oldham and St Mary's Prestwich.
I am looking at the five 'other' Challinors in Oldham on the 1841 census, as I wish to establish if they have any connection with my own. These are, in 1841:
Household one:
Harriet Challender age 20
Cornelius Challender age 15
Ann Challender age 1
(All born in county)
Household two:
William Challinor – age 8 – living with Sarah and Hannah Bentley aged 35 and 9 respectively. Born in county.
Household three:
Margaret Challinor – age 7 – in Prestwich workhouse. Not born in county.
None of these individuals appear to be documented in parish records either in or outside of Oldham. I can't establish who they are or where they came from.
I have followed them forwards and have discovered a few parental names (which also don't seem to relate to any parish records) and that Cornelius does not appear to be a Challinor at all. Here are some select records going forwards:
Marriage for Harriet
March 1848 – Prestwich – James Robinson to Harriet Challender
Father: Richard Challender, Carter – witnesses Cornelius Healey, Martha Woolley
1851 census for Harriet and Ann - Oldham
Charlotte Calliner – head – widow - 53
James Robinson – son-in-law - 34
Harriet Robinson – daughter - 36
Ann Calliner – grand-daughter - 11
Mary Robinson grand-daughter – 2
(All born in Oldham)
Marriage for Cornelius Healey
Jun 1850 – Stockport – Cornelius Healey to Martha Woolley
1851 census for Cornelius – Stockport - the fact that the age tallies leads me to believe the Cornelius Challinor listed on the 1841 census was in fact Cornelius Healey, although I don't know why he was living with Harriet and Ann.
Cornelius Healy – Head – 25 – born Oldham
Martha Healy – Wife – 25 - born Stockport
John Wild – Son – 5 – born Oldham
Sarah Ann Woolley – Lodger – 25
James Woolley – Lodger – 2
Sarah Orvin Woolley – 2 months
Any assistance in untangling this or identifying who any of these various unidentified Challinors may relate to, or just pointers of where to look next, would be appreciated
The individuals are: Ann Challinor, born c. 1840 possibly to an unmarried Harriet
Harriet Challinor, born c. 1821 to Charlotte and Richard
Charlotte Challinor née Unknown, born c. 1798
Richard Challinor, born unknown, died before 1851
Margaret Challinor, born c. 1834
William Challinor, born c. 1833
Cornelius Healy / Challinor born c. 1826 - possibly not a Challinor at all - but connection unclear
8
Yorkshire (East Riding & York) / Re: Am I overlooking any records/sources in this brick wall? Sheffield, 1600s
« on: Friday 03 December 21 18:12 GMT (UK) »
Ahh thank you, that's so helpful and thorough! A lot to think about - I think I'm going to have to get a FindMyPast or a month's sub because you have found records I haven't, particularly burials were very patchy elsewhere.
I have done as you suggested and written down all the Challinor records I've found from that time and tried to build a picture of who was around having kids at what time, but I think if I can find any of those extra records it will help.
His apprenticeship is on page 62 of this document - https://app.box.com/s/v8n1pp9g6z7kxb2652h4hc7jc0qvub36
But to spare you finding it, his line says:
"Challinor Robert son of Thos., Ollerton, dec., to Creswick Wm. Lttle Sheffield, c. [cutler]; II 1619, F. [Freedom] 1631."
There's also an apprentice called Phillip Challinor (son of Phillip) around the same time so perhaps that's his friend.
The will is here (Robert's starts halfway down the page) https://www.dropbox.com/s/chpsy65siv9bvs5/Robert%20Challinor%20Will%201651.pdf?dl=0
I found it hard to read so I may have missed it, but I'm not sure it said cutler or any occupation. It appeared to be quite legal boilerplate, not many specific details or bequests that might associate him with a specific profession.
I have done as you suggested and written down all the Challinor records I've found from that time and tried to build a picture of who was around having kids at what time, but I think if I can find any of those extra records it will help.
His apprenticeship is on page 62 of this document - https://app.box.com/s/v8n1pp9g6z7kxb2652h4hc7jc0qvub36
But to spare you finding it, his line says:
"Challinor Robert son of Thos., Ollerton, dec., to Creswick Wm. Lttle Sheffield, c. [cutler]; II 1619, F. [Freedom] 1631."
There's also an apprentice called Phillip Challinor (son of Phillip) around the same time so perhaps that's his friend.
The will is here (Robert's starts halfway down the page) https://www.dropbox.com/s/chpsy65siv9bvs5/Robert%20Challinor%20Will%201651.pdf?dl=0
I found it hard to read so I may have missed it, but I'm not sure it said cutler or any occupation. It appeared to be quite legal boilerplate, not many specific details or bequests that might associate him with a specific profession.
9
Yorkshire (East Riding & York) / Re: Am I overlooking any records/sources in this brick wall? Sheffield, 1600s
« on: Friday 03 December 21 14:35 GMT (UK) »There is a baptism in Sheffield 6 January 1614 for a Mary Chalner with father Thomas but that is all I can find.
That's more than I've found, thank you! What site did you find that on? I've combed Ancestry, Family Search and Sheffield Indexers or thought I had
