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Messages - dmbtmartin

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1
Westmorland / Linsey Weaving
« on: Sunday 23 October 16 22:41 BST (UK)  »
Dear all,

I was wondering if someone could assist with an explanation of what constituted linsey weaving?

I gather it was a cottage industry and the term itself seems peculiar to Cumbria. Some of my ancestors were linsey weavers in Kendal. If i put "linsey weaving" in the British Newspaper Archive it returns 18 articles all from the region.

If linsey means the same as Linsey-Woolsey then I understand it is a 'strong, coarse fabric with a linen or cotton warp and a woollen weft'. That seems to make sense. However, Linsey Weaving seems almost always to be mentioned in the same sentence as 'fancy and linsey' or 'waistcoat weaving' which feels somewhat at odds. Perhaps I am overthinking this!

Any help much appreciated!


2
Family History Beginners Board / Re: George William Boardman
« on: Friday 16 September 16 11:20 BST (UK)  »
From what I can glean St Oswald's opened in Cullercoats in 1891, the original building became The Beverely Hotel in 1900, and the home then moved to a site just adjacent.

The home operated until 1939 when the girls were evacuated to Kendal and never reopened post war. The girls stayed on until 18 at St Oswald's. So if Mary Ann was born in 1921 she'd have been discharged a few weeks after the onset of war in 1939. I would imagine the Beverley Hotel employed many girls from St Oswald's over the years. Pure conjecture! But who knows!

3
Family History Beginners Board / Re: George William Boardman
« on: Friday 16 September 16 01:12 BST (UK)  »
Hi Steve!

David from ancestry here! Glad to see the rootshat community rallying to the cause!

Been brewing over this a lot and one thing that stands out is the address given on Nicola/Dennis' birth cert -  Beverley Villas.

According to this article, it appears that this is on the site of St Oswald's Home For Girls in Cullercoats:

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/lifestyle/nostalgia/remember-when-beverley-villas-cullercoats-7082348

A hunch tells me that this might be more than a mere coincidence; it is certainly worth eliminating from your enquiries! I'd get in touch with The Children's Society to see if they can locate Mary Ann Boardman in their archives:

http://www.calmview.eu/childrensociety/Calmview/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Persons&id=TCS%2fNAR%2f00270

Apologies if you've been down this route already.

Best of luck, and do let us know how you get on!

4
Armed Forces / Re: Regiments of Foot
« on: Thursday 05 May 16 22:19 BST (UK)  »
Thanks, Ken. I missed the detail about him rejoining the militia after only 4 days. So looks like he was a reservist continuously from discharge until his death. Looks like I'll have to make a trip to Kew at some point.

What do you make of AD Snr. showing as in the 4th Reg of Foot in 1851 and 1861 census, but in Royal Leicestershire in 1855 on his son's Regimental Birth Index? Was it commonplace to switch regiments thus?


5
Armed Forces / Re: Regiments of Foot
« on: Thursday 05 May 16 15:33 BST (UK)  »
Just seen on Wikipedia that the 4th also served in the 1879 Anglo-Zulu War, so perhaps he may have been stationed out there, or on his way back to miss the 1881 census?  ???

6
Armed Forces / Re: Regiments of Foot
« on: Thursday 05 May 16 15:01 BST (UK)  »
Hi again all,

thought I might be able to consult your advice again.
 
It relates to the OP - and Abraham Danvers (1825-67). He had a son of the same name (b. 1854 in Sheepshed, Leicestershire). His birth is in the GRO Regimental BI; This details his father's regiment as the 17th, which I understand is the Royal Leicestershire Regiment, which is confusing because (as mentioned above in the thread  Abraham Snr. is in the 4th Foot in 1851 and and again on the 1861 census -  would one switch regiments like that or is there an alternative explanation?

Also wanted your opinion on Abraham Danvers Jnr's service. Any details you can add or signpost me to would be greatly appreciated:

In 1871 he is enlisted as a 16 yr old drummer in Aldershot; census states this is 'The Kings Own Royal Regiment 1st Battalion and Depot 38 Regiment' - presumably he's in the former. I cannot locate him on the 1881 census.

This link states that the '4th were sent to Gibraltar in 1874 then on to the West Indies. They returned home in 1881...':

http://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/armyunits/britishinfantry/4thkingsown.htm

Does this seems a reasonable explanation for his absence from 1881 census, do you think?

In 1884 he is discharged after 13 years service at his own request, the 4th having moved up to Lancaster around 1881 as I understand.  The discharge transcript says that he was in the Infantry Brigade Depot 4th. What does 'Depot' indicate here?

Abraham then re-enlists as a reservist/militia man in the 3rd Battn North Lancs Regiment 1888, 1892, and 1896, before his death is registered in Loughborough Q4 1898. I assume he was visiting family when he died as he had been in Preston since 1884 and had a child born after his death in Preston Q3 1899.

Many thanks in advance!  :)
 

7
Isle of Man / Re: Atholl Square, Douglas?
« on: Wednesday 27 April 16 02:06 BST (UK)  »
This is exactly what I was looking for Ken! You've made my day/night! Many thanks again.  :)

8
Travelling People / Re: John Bowman c.1821-1863
« on: Wednesday 27 April 16 02:05 BST (UK)  »

Suz, many thanks also.  :) I acknowledge that this has been familiar and, perhaps, wearisome territory for you: another newbie to the forum, keen to give solidity to old family stories. However, I reiterate that there is a prima facie case for John Bowman having GRT roots, not a powerful one, but one that is nonetheless worthwhile investigating (on the basis of the name and occupation having GRT associations). I write this because I couldn't see how points you made against the hypothesis actually served as evidence against it, and thus left me feeling slightly confused.

To wit:

- "a residence not a tent or caravan (as is usual in travellers)". By integrating into the sedantry community it would be expected that tents and caravans have been eschewed in favour of bricks and mortar.

-  in relation to the point about the John Bowman of Appleby. As alluded to, I very quickly realised he wasn't my man when I saw him on the 1851 census. But, for that matter, neither the point that he worked on a farm or became a woodsman would not be sufficient to exclude that John Bowman as a GRT candidate. Farms were, and remain, prime venues for employment. [I recall that Ewan MacColl song: 'The farmer said the work's all done/it's time that you were moving on'. I digress!] And surely, his learning how to handle an axe would not have been beyond his skill-capacity had he become settled.

- My describing Clark's Yard as more of a "ramshackle slum" was not an exercise in wishful thinking done to make John Bowman to appear more likely of GRT stock. I would submit that it shares many of the characteristics of a slum: cramped, irregular, decrepit housing, set back from a main thoroughfare by a long narrow passage, nested in darkness amongst a hodgepodge of other buildings - inns, stables, warehouses, workshops - and inhabited by poor people. The yard received sewering and paving in 1857, but a newly-built mill worker's terrace in the town must have seemed palatial in comparison. The snapshot the 1861 census provides coincides with the onset of the Lancashire Cotton Famine, and descriptions of Church Street and its environs in 1865 are Dickensian in the sense of vice and destitution conveyed. I wager that if one had to choose a place to live in Preston in 1861 you would struggle to find many superior picture-postcard examples of its squalor. The yard had existed since at least the C17th and its remaining houses were demolished in the 1930s as they were deemed unfit for human habitation; this programme was known popularly as 'slum clearance'. Winckley Square, it was NOT! It was just the sort of place that one could reasonably imagine an itinerant gispy tinman taking up residence.

Finally, on this point, I would contend that it is not reasonable to deduce that the area was "not really" slumlike on the basis that it counted amongst its residents a "shopman a boot & shoe maker people in various types of employment in the cotton industry". If we look at that archetypal mother-of-all-slums, Old Nichol's Rookery in Bethnal Green, on the census of the same year, we find - in addition to shopmen, and boot and shoemakers - cabinet makers, marble masons, carpet weavers, looking glass makers, french polishers, blacksmiths, glass blowers, tinplate workers, engineers, and silk-weavers. This was indeed the sort of place that members of the GRT community and their descendants settled, and, again, it is well to note, all of them are in a residence, not a tent or caravan.

In summary, Suz, I do not doubt that for, say, every ten family stories of "gypsy blood" nine are without apparent foundation, but we should be careful not to prematurely exclude those that are out of habit and without good evidence and reasoning; to do so is to invert the sort of confirmation bias I myself have tried to be wary of in chasing the ghost of John Bowman.   :)

9
Travelling People / Re: John Bowman c.1821-1863
« on: Wednesday 27 April 16 01:57 BST (UK)  »
Wow! Thank you so much for your detective work, Trish! Especially at so early an hour yesterday morning. This seems a very strong case for my John Bowman indeed, and therefore the "gypsy folk" origins theory drops further down the probability ratings, and sits within a hair's breadth of total refutation.

It goes without saying providing evidence that works to negate a hypothesis is just as valuable and interesting as that which serves to support it. So I'm very much obliged indeed. Many thanks.  :)

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