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Messages - patchwitch

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1
Census and Resource Discussion / Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
« on: Saturday 07 August 21 15:31 BST (UK)  »
I've just looked at the original again and see that there is a closed record below Bessie's entry. I wonder if the correction might have referred to that entry originally and was then crossed out. Could it have been Margaret? Although, if she died in 1944, the record would have been revealed.

Just a thought.

Gadget

It's a real puzzle. As Margaret was the elder I would have expected her to be listed before Bessie. Also Margaret's probate states she is a spinster. Her mother, Lilian was appointed the Grant of Letters of Administration and the estate was valued at £277-0-1 on 7 May 1945.

I haven't found Margaret on the 1939 Register but she could have been almost anywhere in the world at that time and Margaret McDonald is not an uncommon name. I also wonder if the redacted entry would be for a child of Bessie or Margaret.

I think I will get one of the marriage certificates of the person named in Bessie's will so I have any information contained there - what's the betting the age is given as "full" or "over 21" and the father's name is left blank????? However I think the named person is probably a grand-daughter given the dates of marriage. 

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Census and Resource Discussion / Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
« on: Saturday 07 August 21 14:18 BST (UK)  »
The National Archives has a search facility for RG letter codes but I can't find that one so far. I might have put in the wrong letters/numbers. Have you got a clearer image or maybe someone might be able to read it.

Add - if it's CS/xxx , it could be Change of Surname

Thanks, the image is the clearest one I have :( I read the code as CS/3748 (change of surname 3 July 1948???) but it could also be C3 or C5. The first change to Wilkinson I would have thought would normally be a marriage but so far I have not found a marriage in England and Wales or Scotland.

Bessie was born 10 July 1913 and died 31 July 2004. She was the daughter of Alick Bates McDonald and Lilian Deacon. She had a sister named Margaret, born 1912 and died 1944.

Bessie's estate was administered by Elizabeth Anderson Haughey (previously Emerton and before that McDonald) but I don't know the relationship between Bessie and Elizabeth and I have not found a birth record for Elizabeth so perhaps one of Elizabeth's marriage certificates might give a clue as to her age and possibly her father.

The closed entry on the register would also possibly help of course but I don't know who that could be or if that person is connected to the family - I would guess at a child of Bessie or her sister Margaret but it is only a guess.

3
Census and Resource Discussion / Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
« on: Saturday 07 August 21 10:43 BST (UK)  »
Presumably "RG's Letter" refers to a letter from the Registrar General?

That would be my assumption (but we all know assume puts an ass before u and me ....)

I wondered if there had been some form of "marriage" that was then deemed to be invalid but I have drawn a blank in searching for such a thing. There is no likely candidate for a McDonald - Wilkinson marriage in the GRO index but an invalid marriage may have been removed from the index anyway.

I have written to the people named in Bessie's will but had no response, perhaps they have moved or don't want to know or have another reason for not responding.

I usually get a 50% response rate to letters of enquiry which isn't too bad :) One of the people named in the will married at least twice although I can't find a birth certificate for her. Perhaps a copy of one of her marriage certificates would provide more information. I just love doing jigsaw puzzles with missing pieces!!!!!

4
Any ideas? She died in 2004 and her will says she was a spinster.

The register had her maiden name of McDonald crossed through in red and altered to Wilkinson which has also been crossed through and altered back to McDonald. Thanks!

5
Lancashire Lookup Requests / Re: Grosvenor st Oldham
« on: Tuesday 29 September 20 11:08 BST (UK)  »
Sorry to reply to such an old thread but part of my family lived at 10 Grosvenor Street Oldham on the 1871 and 1881 census returns. The family name is Skellorn (also written as Skillhorn and lots of other variations). The family matriarch was Jane Skellorn nee Farrer baptised 2 Feb 1917 in Old Hutton Westmorland. 

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Westmorland / Re: Joseph Farrer (Farrar) who married Rebecca Fawcett in 1791
« on: Sunday 20 September 20 11:08 BST (UK)  »
Sorry Annette, I have no idea where the Louise came from except that my husband was talking to a neighbour named Lousie as I was typing. I do apologise.

Re-reading my first message and I see why you should think that I had Thomas as a name for the father of both Josephs. It should read "but is another man named Joseph living ......" So two Joseph Farrers in the same area at the same time.

As I have come to a shuddering halt on Joseph's parentage (as you say a couple of possibles but nothing confirmed) I am now trying to trace the descendants. Joseph himself died at Holme Hall near Mansergh and his children and grandchilden appear to have settled in the immediate area "just over the hill" from Grayrigg. The Sedbergh registers have Farrers back into the 1600s so I may end up doing a local one name study at some point.

I am now concentrating on Joseph (1761 - 1843) and his children and grandchildren.

It's not the first time I have found a will that drives a horse and carriage through assumed family relationships and people don't always react well when you query their findings. :( Wills and Admons are (in my opinion only) a much under utilised resource - and very cheap to get post 1858 copies these days. If there is a will it really helps to pin down connections and can also raise other queries.

 

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Westmorland / Re: Joseph Farrer (Farrar) who married Rebecca Fawcett in 1791
« on: Saturday 19 September 20 14:52 BST (UK)  »
That is a very good point Louise. I don't actually think I said that "my" Joseph's father was Thomas, just that it wasn't the Thomas Farrer who married Margaret Harrison. This couple were Quakers and there is a lot of information about them in the Quaker records and also in the notebooks of William Farrer the historian who IS a direct descendant of Thomas and Margaret.

I found this note my file

"As at 12 Oct 2019 I do not know who Joseph's parents are. The Farrer Family Scroll incorrectly gives the parents as Thomas Farrer and Margaret Harrison." This note would date to my last search in Kendal.

"My" Joseph's first son was named Thomas and that appears to be the naming pattern to name the first son after the father's father but this is not always the case of course.

Joseph (1761 - 1843) married Rebecca Fawcett (1772 - 1848) in Grayrigg on 8 May 1791

I think they had 10 children

Thomas (1792 - 1876) I have his will and am researching his family now
Sarah (1793 - 1886) married Jacob Nelson and her parents lived next door to her (or even with her) before their deaths.
Richard (1795 - 1884) - my direct line
Rebecca 1799 -
Alice 1802 -
John 1804 - 1884
James 1806 -
Agnes 1808 -
George 1811 -
Joseph 1813 - 1876

Thomas farmed at Hebblethwaites near Sedbergh and his son Joseph continued to farm there after Thomas died. Thomas's older son (Joseph's older brother) was at High Oaks which I think is not far away.


On the 1841 "my" Joseph is Holme House Kirkby Lonsdale and he died there on 15 March 1843 with his daughter Sarah (now Sarah Nelson) being the informant.

8
Westmorland / Re: Joseph Farrer (Farrar) who married Rebecca Fawcett in 1791
« on: Saturday 19 September 20 11:40 BST (UK)  »
So the beneficiaries of the will of Thomas of Hebblethwaites are his sons Thomas (also executor) and Joseph (who continued to farm at Hebblethwaites), daughters Alice Chamley and Jane Skillorn (actually Skellorn but the spelling varies a great deal) plus son-in0law Thomas Allen. I have not found out how Thomas Allen is related to the Farrers - whether son-in-law means husband of a daughter or even a step-son as either could be correct.

9
Westmorland / Joseph Farrer (Farrar) who married Rebecca Fawcett in 1791
« on: Monday 14 September 20 11:00 BST (UK)  »
I am trying to find out more about Joseph, Rebecca and their family. They are my 5xGreat-Grandparents and I can pretty much trace the descendants of my 3xGreat-Grandfather (their Grandson and another Joseph) into the twentieth century and present day in some cases.

Joseph and Rebecca married in Greyrigg near Kendal in 1791 and died in 1843 (Mansergh)  and 1848 (Burton-in-Lonsdale) respectively. The Farrers were a well established Grayrigg family at this time.

This Joseph is NOT the son of Thomas the Quaker of Grayrigg but another man with the same name who was living in the same area. I say that because I have a copy of the will of Joseph son of Thomas the Quaker which implies this Joseph wasn't married and did not have children. The Josephs also had different death dates and occupations (and years of birth).

I also have a copy of the will of Thomas Farrer eldest son of "my" Joseph and my current project is to try to trace as many of his descendants down to the 1911 census as I can. This isn't my direct line but I am trying to be methodical in my research.

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