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Messages - JT101

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1
Lancashire / Re: Searching for Garforth family in Ashton-Under-Lyne
« on: Wednesday 04 January 17 08:47 GMT (UK)  »
yes thanks Heather.  All been fantastic.  I've just dropped off a copy of the summary of the family history to my Aunt so hopefully she will enjoy that.

2
Sussex / Re: Looking for birthdate of Dorothy Alice Carter
« on: Friday 30 December 16 13:03 GMT (UK)  »
I might aswell give this one last punt, although I'm pretty much finished now.  I've ordered the marriage certificate between John Carter and Annie Maria Paul, and also the birth certificate for John Carter, but I cannot find the GRO reference for Annie Maria Paul to get her birthdate.  Checked Free BMD and GRO.  If anyone can help me out would be very grateful.

This is the record in FamilySearch: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NR2K-SYF
Cheers


3
Lancashire / Re: Searching for Garforth family in Ashton-Under-Lyne
« on: Friday 30 December 16 11:15 GMT (UK)  »
If they married, you would assume it would (in those days) have been before 1923 or thereabouts when he was in his early thirties and she her early twenties, in other words in Canada.   

On 19th May 1937 Joseph says he is returning to Britain and on  June 21st 1937 Joseph advises the army authorities that he arrived in Britain ' about three weeks ago'.  He lists his partner as Dorothy Carter, adding more confusion about the marriage.  In any case, the family travelled from Montreal aboard the Ascania bound for London, where it seems they resided with one of Dorothy’s sisters at 13 Salisbury Rd, Croydon.  Albert since emigrated to Australia where he still lives, and Eileen remained in the area where she met her husband and has lived ever since

4
Lancashire / Re: Searching for Garforth family in Ashton-Under-Lyne
« on: Friday 30 December 16 11:14 GMT (UK)  »
Subsequently there is a lot of correspondence to and fro between the dept of National Defence in Ottawa and the Office for the High Commissioner for Canada in London in order to get financial help with medical bills for a chronic medical condition he believes stems from his time in the British Army during WW1 (Canadian forces were considered part of the British Army at this time as Canada was a British overseas territory at this time).

Due to his ongoing health problems he deserted and travelled back to British Columbia.
He then tries to re-enlist with these attestation papers to the  1st Depot batt, 1st Quebec Regt in Manitoba on 4th Jan 1918.  Previous medical condition listed as varicose veins for which he was rejected from joining the British Army.  Over this period of time  it begins to get confusing, as there are various dates of birth and alias’s used such as John Joseph Garforth, and John Joseph Ashton with a wife of Annie Garforth living in Ashton under Lyne.  It would appear in his attempts to claim compensation and also in enlisting a second time when he was probably too old for foot soldiering (30 years old in 1918), he manipulates his birthdate to make himself appear younger, claiming he is infact 26.  He must have succeeded in rejoining the army since he deserted once more and was struck off by 5th May 1918.
With regards to his wife Annie, it seems likely he either met Annie in Ashton during his post there, or  there is a record of an Annie Garforth age 23 listed on the passenger list of the Andania arriving from Montreal on 9th Sept 1914.  His enlistment record shows an address of 50 Park Road, Dukinfield (close to Ashton) in 1915.  Annie has several addresses throughout her life in Dukinfield until she died in 1978.  So there is very strong evidence that he married Annie during his time back in England. 

Then a John Joseph Ashton enlists with Canadian Railway Construction Company in Vancouver on 15/7/1918. He gave his date of birth as Nov 19th 1884 in Ashton under Lyne.  Given his presence in Canada and Annie’s addresses in Dukinfield it seems unlikely they saw each other again.     

After arriving in Canada , Dorothy must have met Joseph further out west as they are listed in a 1921 census as Joseph and Dorothy Garforth lodging with Lucien Gagne and family in Shipton, Quebec (see here post #6).   
By 1923 they are back in  British Columbia where she gave birth to a daughter Florence Garforth in Penticton prematurely in August 1923, but sadly the baby died shortly afterwards. 
In 1927 they had their second child George, followed by Kathleen in 1928, Albert 1929, unfortunately another unnamed still birth in 1930, and finally Thelma in 1934 in Chilliwack.


Continued in next post

5
Lancashire / Re: Searching for Garforth family in Ashton-Under-Lyne
« on: Friday 30 December 16 11:12 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you so much to all who have helped out.  I've tried to summarise all the major points, and whilst there may be some errors, I'm going to show this to my aunt now.  Incase anyone is interested, here is the summary:

Eileen’s grandparents on her mothers side John & Annie Carter were born & grew up in Dorset where John worked as a labourer on a farm.  Looks like they had 8 children: Stanley, Henry, Anthony, Sydney, Dorcas, Dorthy, and Herbert, moving to various places over the years and giving birth to Eileen’s mother Dorothy in Iklesham, East Sussex.  Dorothy emigrated at the age of about 23 to Nova Scotia to work as a domestic servant, at some point may have worked in Cobalt, Ontario.

Eileen’s grandparents on her fathers side John & Martha Anne Garforth were born in Ashton Under Lyne near Manchester where it seems they lived all their lives.  They had 5 children, Eliza, John, Florence, Joseph and Harry.  Joseph was born in 1888,  but in 1897 both parents died.  His father in April, and mother in June.  As was common practice at the time, orphaned children or simply children from poor families were sent overseas by organisations like Barnados to former colonies such as Canada for a supposed better life.  The were known as “British home children” or “Barnados babies”, but the reality was more like indentured servitude.  Only a year after both parents had died Joseph was sent at the age of 9 years old to Halifax, Canada on 31st March 1898 from Liverpool aboard the Labrador  There is also a record of his sister Florence being sent to an orphanage in Bristol, and so it seems the entire family was torn apart.

 A 1901 Census lists Joseph lodging with Herbert H Smith an Ontario farmer at Pipestone, Brandon, Manitoba, then possibly lodging with his newly wedded sister and family in the 1911 Census in Assiniboia, Saskatchewan.  Records indicate he spent most of his working life doing manual jobs like logging, driving and labouring but it appears from various addresses and correspondence that Joseph had moved out west near British Columbia by 1915 and joined the Canadian Mounted Rifles. 
WWI broke out on 28 July 1914,  and it appears he was sent back to England, Ashton infact, because a Joseph Garforth enlists with the 9 Res Manchester Regt in May 1915 at Ashton Barracks ( army number 3851). He had several months training in England and was also hospitalised several times (he appears to have had chronic health issues) before being granted temporary leave to work in munitions in Prescott, Lancashire. He was the called up again and sent to H L I Battalion in Montrose and was sent to hospital in Aberdeen.

Continued in next post..............

6
Lancashire / Re: Searching for Garforth family in Ashton-Under-Lyne
« on: Thursday 22 December 16 18:23 GMT (UK)  »
Not saying I'm not convinced, I'm struggling to keep up!  And thanks again for all your outstanding work.  Wow, what a drama this has unfolded.  Should make some really interesting reading for my aunt. I'm hooked!
So I see now, the record is actually for Joseph Garforth but his alias as such is John Joseph Garforth.

7
Lancashire / Re: Searching for Garforth family in Ashton-Under-Lyne
« on: Thursday 22 December 16 11:12 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: isobelw on Tuesday 20 December 16 22:47 GMT (UK)
Following on from the Canadian service records mentioned in post 13- it would appear that Joseph also served in the British Army. Findmypast has extensive correspondence linked with his attempt to get an army pension in 1937 on the basis of his service during WW1. The correspondence includes a letter written by Joseph in which he explains that he joined 9 Res Manchester Regt in May 1915 at Ashton Barracks ( army number 3851). He had several months training in England and was also hospitalised several times ( he appears to have had chronic health issues) before being granted temporary leave to work in munitions in Prescott, Lancashire. He was the called up again and sent to H L I Battalion in Montrose and was sent to hospital in Aberdeen. Due to his ongoing health problems he deserted and travelled back to Canada. Subsequently he joined up in Vancouver ( Canadian service records provide further details of his service and his health issues).
Some of the 1937 correspondence is addressed c/o Miss D Carter/Miss Carter so I wonder if she and Joseph didn't actually marry. The Canadian records mention a wife Annie who was living in Duckinfield Cheshire in 1918 so it is possible he was already married to someone else during his sojourn in England.
Isobel

This is getting quite confusing now with all the similar names, but I think you're chasing a red herring here, unless I'm wrong.  The post #13 shows records for a John Joseph Garforth, not Joseph Garforth, DOB Nov 19th 1884.  Well I have a copy of the GRO cert for Joseph Garforth, with mother Martha Ann Dean as 4th June 1888. which corresponds with the ship log when he was sent to Canada aged 9 in March 1898.  So this John Joseph Garforth you mention cannot be the same guy.  It can't even be his father because I believe he was born 1862 and according to post #31, he died in 1897. 

All these Annie's and Johns and Josephs is confusing.  The fact that Dorothy's parents were called John & Annie Carter, doesn't help. 

So I'm still assuming he married Dorothy since post #6 lists him living with Dorothy Garforth in Shipton, Quebec in a 1921 census.  However, given Joseph's age in 1914 (mid twenties), he would have been perfect for conscription so there must be records for him. 

Also seems strange that this John Joseph Garforth was born in Ashton also, and was of a similar age.  I wonder if he lied about his age, and changed his name slightly to be accepted into the Canadian army?  He was infact pushing 30 years old in reality if this was the case, but could have lied, saying he was infact 26 at the time.
 

8
Lancashire / Re: Searching for Garforth family in Ashton-Under-Lyne
« on: Tuesday 20 December 16 18:04 GMT (UK)  »
Sorry Heatherjulie. I should have clarified.  You're two generations early.  The Joseph Garforth you listed is the grandfather of the guy I'm after, also called Joseph Garforth.  But it's pretty obvious he spent  his life in Canada from 1898 when he went out there at 9 years old, until he returned in 1937, during which time he must have gotten married to Dorothy Carter in Canada.  That's the marriage I'm after, and may struggle to find. 

9
Lancashire / Re: Searching for Garforth family in Ashton-Under-Lyne
« on: Tuesday 20 December 16 08:55 GMT (UK)  »
Oh wow, you guys are really on it.  I don't think I need to go any further back as there's only so much interest my 84 year old Aunt will have in all of this, so I wouldn't want to waste your time.  But isobelw how terrible that Joseph lost both parents.  I had no idea about this Home children practice until recently, and what a harsh life Joseph must have had.  Luckily he found someone in the end.  My aunt has no idea about any of her past, so it will be fascinating to her nonetheless. 

And a big thankyou to everyone who has contributed.  I think I may sign up to ancestry and start now looking into the other side of my family. 

Once I order all the birth certificates from the GRO, provided they are correct I think there's just one more piece of the puzzle I would like to find, although it's not critical.  That is the marriage of Eileen;s parents.  It seems that Dorothy and Joseph Garforth had children in Canada in the British Columbia province between 1923 and 1932.  I guess there's two possible scenarios here.  That they either married before having children, which I assume was the socially acceptable norm in those days, or they waited until they came back to England in 1937.

I can't find any evidence of a marriage in England after 1937 with that name, so I have to assume it was in Canada in British Columbia prior to 1923.  Is there any search sites where I could look up such information?  Is that something I might find on Ancestry, or would I have to contact government records in Canada?

I tried this site, but they have no record of him: http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/vital-statistics-births-marriages-deaths/births-marriages-deaths-recorded/Pages/births-marriages-deaths-recorded.aspx#c   

Cheers

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