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Messages - Aus325

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1
The Common Room / Re: William Altree-Williams appearing from nowhere
« on: Friday 05 January 24 06:26 GMT (UK)  »
Yes, Jean may have been born on the voyage out in 1915. There is no birth record for her in NSW but she married married Keith David Kennedy in 1941 at Randwick [18985/1941 KENNEDY KEITH DAVID ALTREE-WILLIAMS JEAN RANDWICK], which would make her 26 if she was born in 1915. The dates don't stack up for her to have been been a daughter of Charles (m.Florence Davenport in 1927) or Frank (m.Thelma Menchin in 1928) unless she married at 17 with permission

There was a Lilian Altree-Williams registered in the Apr-Jun qtr of 1908 at Birkenhead. Despite having the Altree middle name the GRO index has her mother's  maiden name as Osbourne [WILLIAMS, LILIAN  ALTREE    OSBORNE GRO Reference: 1908  J Quarter in BIRKENHEAD  Volume 08A  Page 549] and the location is slightly off in Cheshire - So she is not of the family who came to Aus, but with that surname she must be a closely related

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The Common Room / Re: William Altree-Williams appearing from nowhere
« on: Thursday 04 January 24 07:17 GMT (UK)  »
Im descended from Joseph Williams and Elizabeth Altree of Shropshire, married at Wolverhampton in Mar 1816. In my case - via their 2nd son Thomas Williams (1825-1909). In our family the middle name 'Altree' was very consistantly used all the way down the generations even to my father who had it as his middle name. It occured in both male and females in this family although it never become a two-barrelled surname as it did with Thomas' older brother - William (1822-1869) line. Our family had lost the specific reason for using the Altree name, only that it was something significant. I've yet to find the reason of the significance of the Altree name to the descendants of Joseph and Elizabeth. Elizabeth did have a 2 x great uncle John Turnpenny-Altree (1736-1798) who sailed as assistant surgeon with the first fleet to NSW in 1787 but this seems an unlikely reason as he wasn't exactly a great success in that endeavor

I did a lot of work on the Altree Williams tree some years ago on familysearch. It appears that it was the children of William Altree Williams (1874-1961) who made it a two-barrelled surname. William b.1874 was certainly the son of William A Williams and Susannah Leicester as confirmed in the 1961 death index [WILLIAMS, WILLIAM ALTREE 18119/1961 WILLIAM, SUZANNA, SYDNEY]. He had moved to Sydney Aus by 1915 with his wife Margaret Jane (nee Smith) 1880-1958 and eight children, adding another two sons - Leslie & George in 1916 & 1918. The first child born in Lancashire was Selina Green (1900-1971) next was Charles Edgar Altree-Williams (1902–1973) who died at Wollongong. [ALTREE-WILLIAMS, CHARLES EDGAR 71283/1973 WILLIAM,  MARGARET JANE, WOLLONGONG] .

3
Armed Forces / Re: Alexander George of 2nd Btn Royal Artillery 1801-1822 & the mystery wife
« on: Monday 01 January 24 00:13 GMT (UK)  »
yes, with that date it would be a colonial pension record, probably noted in Van Diemen's Land. It's the statement of service at discharge that typically has a signature. These are usually WO97 or sometimes WO121. The attached typical example is a WO97 discharge for a James Paine of Benfield who was discharged from the Invalid Company in NSW in Sep 1823 aged 70. It shows his complete dated service history, place of origin, age and place of enlistment, physical description and signature on discharge - a very handy document to get. It appears that whilst the similar 1822 discharge record for Alexander George has been found indexed by TNA in their originals, it hasn't been indexed by findmypast when they scanned this dataset at Kew. I've had this problem several times before. Not all records cited in the TNA index are readily found at findmypast. Some are indexed differently to TNA and can be found with a little persistance some just don't seem to be there at all.

4
Armed Forces / Re: Alexander George of 2nd Btn Royal Artillery 1801-1822 & the mystery wife
« on: Sunday 31 December 23 22:02 GMT (UK)  »
I can't access the content of link above as I don't have a current findmypast account. The record I've found in their index using a search for Alexander George of Royal Artillery comes up with a result in 1834 which would be worth looking at as it does indicate original document/s are available.

His first marriage in Banffshire 17 Sep 1801 to Isabel Raeburn appears to be no use as there is only a transcript available, no original. I have two different signatures from Colonial Office documents regarding the voyage to VDL but all of these documents have been hand copied by CO staff back in the day and the signatures are not the originals

5
Armed Forces / Re: Alexander George of 2nd Btn Royal Artillery 1801-1822 & the mystery wife
« on: Sunday 31 December 23 06:31 GMT (UK)  »
thanks, I have viewed his WO23 Chelsea Admission record on Ancestry which was dated 1 Mar 1822, which typically has only his personal information and nothing of his family. I have the reference to his WO97 discharge record from 1822 but have not viewed it yet as it's only available at TNA or on findmypast. I'm not holding much hope that it will contain anything beyond as his own information as he never rose above the rank of Corporal and it was normally only officers who occasionally had information of spouses and children in their records. Having viewed numerous WO97 service records of rank & file of the Regiments of Foot from this era I've yet to see one that contains anything beyond his own information. I'll still check it next time I have the opportunity just to be complete

6
Armed Forces / Re: Alexander George of 2nd Btn Royal Artillery 1801-1822 & the mystery wife
« on: Sunday 31 December 23 05:32 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks for the response. No, this marriage at Eastbourne has not been looked at. I see it now on Ancestry in 'East Sussex, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936' but not on findmypast, familysearch or FreeReg etc. This may be a record that has only recently been made available, and looks promising! I don't have an active ancestry account to view the full details but if someone could check the extra details and let me know if there is mention in this record of Alexander George being a soldier of the Royal Artillery that would be very helpful

7
Armed Forces / Alexander George of 2nd Btn Royal Artillery 1801-1822 & the mystery wife
« on: Sunday 31 December 23 03:53 GMT (UK)  »
I have a decades long brickwall concerning the name of the 2nd wife of Alexander George of the Royal Artillery 1801-22. Born 1781 Clayfolds, Alvah, Banffshire, enlisted 2nd Btn Royal Artillery 1801, discharged 1 Mar 1822 Woolwich Kent for pension. Appointed as convict overseer and embarked to Van Diemen's Land aboard Jupiter in June 1823. Accompanied by wife only known as Jane, son James b.1813 and daughter Jane Jr b.1821 Woolwich. The son was from his first wife Isabel Raeburn who died in childbirth of twins in 1813. A new relationship began sometime after this, possibly at Woolwich with a woman known only as Jane with a daughter, Jane Jr born at Woolwich 20 Sep 1821 and recorded in the Gro Regimental Birth Indices (1761 To 1924). These early certificates can be ordered via the GRO which I presume has been done already as the full date of birth is in many trees on ancestry, and like many early records, the maiden name of the mother is not cited. Many descendants of this family in TAS have been trying for decades to determine the name of the mystery 2nd wife Jane, with not even a hint of a result. We have no date of birth and no known death for Jane. After the death of Alexander in 1837 in TAS there is no further record. She may be the woman who was granted permission to marry French convict Francois Calliot (Life convict per Sarah 1837) at Hobart on 31 May 1845. Any ideas or lateral thoughts are welcome....

8
Staffordshire Lookup Requests / Re: Willetts, master blacksmith at Wolverhampton c.1822
« on: Monday 11 December 23 06:53 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks for your patience. I must not have access to the same records as I can only find the baptism of a Joseph Willets in Dudley Worc. in 1770

re: the residence of Thomas Willets at his marriage in Sep 1795, I haven't seen the original but the transcription at familysearch does appear to suggest St Peter Wolverhampton

Name   Thomas Willetts
Residence Place   St Peter
Spouse's Name   Ettey Jones
Spouse's Residence Place   St Peter
Event Type   Marriage
Event Date   21 Sep 1795
Event Place   Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England
Event Place (Original)   Wolverhampton, St Peter, Staffordshire, England

thanks again for the effort put forth. As a person who has spent many many hours on research for others, not for my own line, just to solve a puzzle for interest sake, it is very much appreciated

9
Staffordshire Lookup Requests / Re: Willetts, master blacksmith at Wolverhampton c.1822
« on: Sunday 10 December 23 22:48 GMT (UK)  »
Yes, Floyd was used in three baptisms so might be the better rendering. Not so sure of the son Joseph connection as he was baptised at St Thomas Dudley. I notice that at his marriage to Etty Jones in Sep 1795, Thomas was recorded as resident at Wolverhampton. It would have been nice to see Brewood here.

This is not in my direct line, more a sideways connection which has been lurking unsolved for a long long time. I recently noticed that convict records recorded the profession of both sons and the father, as well as the locations Brewood and Wolverhampton. Along with use of the naming traditions I figured there was just about enough data to work it out... and it looks like we have. My own direct ancestry has several far more unsolvable lines due to the usual Irish records problems/lack. I can't see these ever proceeding.

I will pass the proposed data to the relevant Willetts descendants here in Aus and see if any sort of dna connection can be made with descendants of John or James Willets.

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