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Messages - Tiffany84

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Monmouthshire Lookup Requests / Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« on: Wednesday 18 October 17 20:35 BST (UK)  »
Hi Janan and Jomot
There is a record for a Fred Waite for 1891 showing him as a boarder but it is strange that the Samuel should be dropped.  He is shown as born Llantrisant in 1859 so this may be him.  However, I agree that can't find Samuel F. after 1881.   
Re death.  When Emily's daughter Annie marries in Prestolee England in 1906 the marriage details show father as Samuel F Waite deceased.  This may be accurate or may be just what she had been told.  If this is accurate then it suggests the 1910 death is another person.  So grateful for your input.  This is really complicated!   Tif

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Monmouthshire Lookup Requests / Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« on: Wednesday 18 October 17 17:01 BST (UK)  »
Thanks for that!  I am beginning to think I have met a dead end.  I cannot find him before the 1891 census. Also, although I accept the 1891 census says 'James I only know him as 'Thomas' and his origin as Honiton.  It may be that he changed either his name or where he was born (or both) on the census documents after 1891.  Or I am just not locating the right documents!
It is a mystery whether she left Samuel Waite and fled to Manchester where she met My Great-grandfather or if she fled to Manchester with him (and this could then have prompted a change of name)  However, either way it looks as if she was pregnant as she named her child born in Manchester Waite.
Thanks for letting me know re the age difference.  As I say my source isn't showing any age.  You have to admit though there are quite a few coincidences.
Of course, it still could be him, I suppose. Her sister Elizabeth was married to an Edwin Harris who lived in Monmouthshire.  He has a younger brother Thomas who is 10 years younger than Emily. It may be that she left Samuel Waite with someone like this, who was her junior in years.  As I said in my long previous post my mind goes round and round all the possibilities!   Thanks again

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Monmouthshire Lookup Requests / Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« on: Wednesday 18 October 17 14:21 BST (UK)  »
Hi groom, thanks for the reply!  The record I have does not give any age.   It says :
James Harris otherwise called Samuel White- attempting to steal from the person. Before convicted of felony 2 indicments.  convicted to 4 months .  It is taken from the England and Wales criminal Registers 1791-1892   Wales Glamorgan.  It also says Midsummer Quarter Sessions at Cardiff 30th day of June.

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Monmouthshire Lookup Requests / Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname? Am I getting too fanciful?
« on: Thursday 12 October 17 16:21 BST (UK)  »
To all who have helped me to date.  I am wondering if I am now getting too fanciful in my efforts to trace my Great-Grandfather who I know as Tom ( Thomas ) Harris. I can only trace him back to the 1891 census in Manchester where the entry reads as James Harris. He gives his name as Thomas on subsequent 1901 and 1911 census documents always place of Birth is given as Honiton around 1864.
My Great Grandmother was Emily Stoneham from Shirenewton in Monmouthshire. Thanks to the help of Rootschat members I have now established that prior to 1891 she had a relationship with Samuel F Waite and that her first 4 children bear the name of Waite. On the 1891 census she is in Stretford Manchester and with James Harris who is shown as a Hatter. Prior to this she has remained in Monmouthshire.  However, the 'James' and the 'Hatter' related to my Great-grandfather may have been errors made when the enumerator transcribed his notes.  This could explain there being an anomaly of name and also the unusual occupation, given that always subsequently in returns my Great-grandfather's occupations are more manual in nature.
In following up leads (so excellently provided) I tried to establish the whereabouts of Samuel F Waite in 1891.  I was trying to work out if Emily left him and travelled to Manchester and quickly met Thomas (James) Harris or if she has travelled with Samuel Waite. I think she was pregnant at the time as the final' child recorded as 'Waite' is born in Manchester.  If I could establish whether my Great-grandfather was at any point resident in Monmouthshire this may give me a pointer but  as yet I cannot trace him prior to 1891.  However, in my various searches I have come across a criminal record for 1891 for a James Harris (also known as Samuel White who is convicted to 4 months in Glamorgan.  Incidentally, Samuel Waite shows his origins as Glamorgan.  On the record of  the day In June 1891 when he is convicted there is also a fellow prisoner named as a Thomas Harris who is acquitted. 
 I can't put all this together in my head but feel there are a lot of coincidences floating around here!  Hence, my saying am I being too fanciful?   

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Monmouthshire Lookup Requests / Re: James or Thomas Harris? Handwriting query
« on: Wednesday 11 October 17 13:46 BST (UK)  »
lizdb
Thanks will do!

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Monmouthshire Lookup Requests / Re: James or Thomas Harris? Handwriting query
« on: Tuesday 10 October 17 23:52 BST (UK)  »
Hi Dundee,   Never thought of that.  As I said in a previous post the occupation of Hatter seems out of sync with his employments in other census entries.  I  will plod on with trying to find either a James or a Thomas who I can follow from around 1883 in Honiton to 1891 in Manchester.
Thanks!

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Monmouthshire Lookup Requests / Re: James or Thomas Harris? Handwriting query
« on: Tuesday 10 October 17 23:03 BST (UK)  »
 Thanks for the replies ! The two never married I don't think.  However, on both the 1901 and 1911 census which follow he is shown as Thomas.
I can't find any earlier census entries which seem to fit.
There is a James Harris born 1862 in Honiton but I cannot find him shown in 1871 or 1881.
I still wonder why he switches to Thomas on the later census entries?

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Monmouthshire Lookup Requests / James or Thomas Harris? Handwriting query
« on: Tuesday 10 October 17 22:30 BST (UK)  »
I have always been told my Great grandfather was called Thomas Harris and was born in Honiton Devon about 1863.  I know my Great- grandmother was Emily Stoneham from Shirenewton.
On the 1891 census they are both in Manchester and he is shown as a Hatter.
However there is some dispute whether the entry is for  a James Harris or a Thomas Harris.  I have always been told his name is Thomas.  The other handwriting in the census entries on the same page seems to vary with the name Thomas being written in different ways.  Similarly the census compiler seems to complete letter J in different ways too.  Any advice?
I am trying to trace my Great-grandfather back to Honiton but now I am struggling as to whether I should be seeking James or Thomas as I have always been led to believe he was named

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Monmouthshire Lookup Requests / Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« on: Tuesday 10 October 17 17:15 BST (UK)  »
Hi Jomot
Thanks so much you have certainly shed some light on my Ancestry!   As soon as I saw the name 'Waite' I had a 'lightbulb moment' going back to my childhood when my grandmother told me she was writing to someone called 'Waite' who was my Grandfather Harris's relative.  I also have some vague recollection of a mention of someone being in Canada but I cannot be sure. So, there must have been some awareness in the family that some of my Grandfather's  brothers and sisters were in fact only step brothers/sisters.  However, no-one has mentioned this to me ever,despite the fact that I was adult before my grandfather died and he knew of my interest in Family history. My own parents have similarly shown no awareness of the Waite connection.

I have checked out the birth records you quote for Annie Matilda Waite, and William Henry Waite and have found their births in Monmouthshire.  I was unaware of the existence of Walter Sidney Waite !1882) and wonder what happened to him subsequently?  I wonder if he died quite young because Emily who is then using the name Harris (post 1891) has a Sidney Harris in1897 and a Frederick Harris in1898. So, perhaps these two names were chosen because the Sidney Frederick Waite born in Monmouthshire was by then deceased ?
I note that there is a  William Henry Waite born in Chorlton Manchester in 1889 vol8c p744 which would seem to fit.  However, this suggests that Samuel Waite also came to Manchester at this time. Or, he had died and a pregnant Emily had come alone, and perhaps  around this time she met Thomas (James?) Harris? 

Using your Waite info I have established that Annie Matilda Waite married a John Henry White in 1906 in Prestolee a sub-district  of Ringley and on the outskirts of Outwood  where the family appear in 1911.   Incidentally, William Henry Waite is a witness to the wedding.  Annie's father is given as Samuel Waite (deceased).  I have looked briefly today but as yet I have not found his death. In tracing him he seems to be Samuel Fred Waite born around 1860 in Caldicot, Monmouthshire, where one of the children (Walter, Sidney) is Baptised.  Incidentally, where did you locate the baptisms of Annie Matilda, Sidney Frederick and William, Henry Waite, as I have not so far traced the Baptism records?  The parents of Samuel Fred are Eliza and Matthew, so a pattern is showing with chosen names.
I still have not established if Eliza, whom I have as born Ardwick area of Manchester around 1891 is a Waite or a Harris.  (do you have any idea?)
Now, I suspect I can stop looking for Thomas (or James) Harris in Monmouthshire.  It would appear that the connection is in Manchester somehow.  I now need to try to trace his Birth in Honiton and see if I can find him before the 1891 census. I hope this is less tricky now I have some of the jig-saw thanks to you!
You queried Matthew Henry's whereabouts and he does appear on the 1911 census.  By then Tom Harris is widowed and they are living in Outwood which is between Ringley and Whitefield where he later marries
Thanks again for all your help and if you have any further flashes of genius your input would be welcomed.
Thankyou!

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