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Messages - SMockler

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1
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Stuck at James Mockler/Jimmy Dee
« on: Friday 05 February 10 20:55 GMT (UK)  »
Just to confirm I'm pretty certain that James Mockler Snr was interred on 01/03/1921 at Oxbridge Lane Cemetery, Stockton on Tees.

His death certificate is Volume:10a, Page:104

I've ordered it so I'll see what that says  ;D

Off to look for more info on the Dee couple now and will order their certificates too, or at least the last one to die as I'd guess that the informant would be the surviving spouse initially.

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Family History Beginners Board / Re: Stuck at James Mockler/Jimmy Dee
« on: Friday 05 February 10 20:06 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: lizdb on Friday 05 February 10 16:26 GMT (UK)
Info on Wills is all on here -
http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/1226.htm

If you are in or near or can get to London then the index can be searched free at the Probate place in Holborn - so that can save a few pennies - otherwise a search for a few years is included in the price you pay and then you get the Will if there is one.
I have always searched myself and then only sent for one if I know there is one! 
Anyway all info on the website

Thanks for your help liz!  I looked on the beginners guide but this information hadn't been entered yet.  Unfortunately, I'm based in Northumberland so Holborn is quite far away - if only I'd started doing this 10 years ago when I was there fairly regularly! It certainly is a great idea to get a will, if it's available so searching for that is now one of my top priorities

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James Mockler seniors death cert looks like it might be worth a look when finances permit - IF the informant is James junior it might at least show they were still in touch. Likewise if the Dees it would show he was still in touch with them. I am not sure it will give any more details about James juniors birth, though.

This is certainly worth doing as it would be good to know if he was a rascal and left his child with his sister and brother in law.  I'm pretty sure I've found his grave, well, at least know where it is so next time I'm down that way (next month) I'm going to find it.  It might have "loving father of . . . " etc on it - you never know!  I'll be ordering the certificate tonight so by next week I might have more information for this search

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You said you'd traced James M senior back through the censuses. Where was he in 1901, I know that is still some time before James jnrs birth ... but he didnt have a girl in tow then at all did he?

He has always been a Mummy's boy.  From the moment he was born he's lived with his parents, after his fathers death he stayed living with his Mother.  In 1901 he was living with his sister Catherine (later to become Catherine Dee) and his Mother.  No lady friend apparent!

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Frustrating one isnt it.

You're telling me, especially when you've got family that just keep quoting the same old family story and can't seem to understand that it simply can't be true.  He can't have been registered as a Mockler.  End of. 


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I would forget the deed poll thing. You can call yourself what you like, few people actually go to the bother of Deed Poll.
And we know from censuses that James senior went through life with the same name. James junior may well have used the name Dee if he was brought up by them, but unlikely to have used Deed Poll to change it, esp as reverted to his 'Dads' name as an adult.

Noted.

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Presumably it was James Dee who completed the census schedule.
Exactly how did he describe the Jameses?
Was James senior 'brother in law'
And little James 'nephew'
I think you implied it was purely 'lodger' for J sen, but what about 3 yr old little J?

It was indeed James Dee that completed the schedule.  The household is listed as follows:

James Dee (head)
Catherine Dee (wife)
James Mockler (Boarder)
James Mockler (Boarder son)

Thank you as well Carol.  Unfortunately, I rang Stockton registry office and they checked both those James for me.  Neither were born on the date I have (even though I'm taking that date with a pinch of salt) and there are a father and mother listed for each child.

I have the marriage certificate of James Mockler Jnr and he's put his father as James Mockler


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what a lot of James's ;D
You're telling me!  There are a 150 years worth of them!  It's a traditional name, I had to give it to my child (as a middle name) on pain of death!  My husband was under instructions that his wife would have to provide an heir and that heir would have to be called James.  Luckily our first born was a son otherwise I'd have probably had to keep going until a boy came along  ;D






3
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Stuck at James Mockler/Jimmy Dee
« on: Friday 05 February 10 14:15 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: lizdb on Friday 05 February 10 12:15 GMT (UK)
Quote from: SMockler on Thursday 04 February 10 18:41 GMT (UK)
Until I've exhausted every other avenue I won't purchase it as I don't really see how it will help me at the moment.

Only that, as you have said yourself, it looks like he wasnt registered under Mockler. All searching there has proved fruitless, so in order to stand any chance of solving it you will need to think outside the Mockler box.

Oh most definitely I do need to rethink (as I said, he was most likely registered under his mothers name so will be James Mothersname.  At this point, getting a birth certificate of a boy that is called James, born in a different yet close area with parents named Mr & Mrs Smith just seems a bit pointless as it won't really give me any further information to go on. . .

The family bible is pretty useless really.  We have no idea where it's come from.  From the age, we suspect that it was bought for James Mockler Jnr and his wife but the handwriting is their daughter in law.  It doesn't give full dates for any of the family and simply states Mum, Dad, Nan, etc.  Meaning that the date of birth could be inaccurate.  No details are given of anyone's parentage.  Actually scrap that!  I don't have the family bible so I rang the person that does to double check everything and it appears they gave me duff information.  Only James Mockler Jnrs date of death was listed (he's down as Dad) no birth date at all.  The birth date I've been given is from memory only.  It would be so much easier if people gave you concise info!  That's the only information about him in there, simply the name Dad and his date of death.

He's recorded on the 1911 census as the son of James Mockler Elder also, on the marriage certificate of James Mockler Jnr his father is listed as James Mockler (deceased - I'm pretty sure I've found his death certificate, with his death being in 1922, this is next on my list to purchase)

I will have to research how to get hold of wills now, I'm sure the information will be on here somewhere!  Also, I was thinking about looking to see if he's changed his name by deed poll at some point i.e. if he found out he was registered as a different name and officially changed his name to that of his fathers.  Although I've got no idea where to start there either - beginners guides are us I think!

Thank you so much for your continued help with this - it's always useful to bounce ideas!







4
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Stuck at James Mockler/Jimmy Dee
« on: Friday 05 February 10 00:49 GMT (UK)  »
I've also double checked the whole of the BMD for a mis-spelling of Mockler (Muckler/Mackler etc) to see if there was maybe a James Mockler registered elsewhere with a different spelling.

That's not turned up any results either  :-[

I hope someone can help.

5
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Stuck at James Mockler/Jimmy Dee
« on: Thursday 04 February 10 18:41 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: lizdb on Thursday 04 February 10 16:57 GMT (UK)

At some point you will have to "stump up cash" or you will not solve this!
Geting the cert for the James with the exact birth date that matched the family bible might not have been such a bad idea (though I cant see it in the birth indexes). Too much of a coincidence to have exactly the right name and the right birthdate I would have thought! Perhaps dad was known by a middle name or something so the name on the cert didnt exactly match "James" ....

I'm more than happy to spend money if required, it's just when you've been made redundant, have one 11 month old and another on the way every £7 counts so I want to be 100% sure I'm not wasting my money when I order a certificate. 

The child born on that date was in Guisborough, a nearby district but NOT where it's listed as him being born in the census (Stockton on Tees)

His first name is James, the surname is a secret held by the registry office

They confirmed the father wasn't a Mockler, James or otherwise and that it wasn't a Dee, James or otherwise so it could well just be a random birth certificate that happens to share two pieces of information with the person I'm looking for

Until I've exhausted every other avenue I won't purchase it as I don't really see how it will help me at the moment.

6
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Stuck at James Mockler/Jimmy Dee
« on: Thursday 04 February 10 18:37 GMT (UK)  »
Will try and answer all your questions . . .

1. James Mockler Elder was single in the 1911 census, I can't find a record of a marriage taking place after this date

2. James Dee and Catherine Mockler had been married for 4 years at the time of the 1911 census

3. James Mockler Junior is listed as the Boarder son in the 1911 census, the boarder being James Mockler Elder

4. The birth certificate I found of a James Wildcardsurname born on the 14th July 1909 has a father listed that ISN'T James Mockler so it was dismissed.  The registry office would only confirm that the father listed did not match my search criteria so I don't know what the name of the father actually is or the name of the boy born.  I've not bought it yet as I don't see much point as the fathers don't match.  Sorry if this wasn't clear.


7
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Stuck at James Mockler/Jimmy Dee
« on: Thursday 04 February 10 17:16 GMT (UK)  »
I compared a few marriage certificates from around the right time but I could always find another James Mockler that would fit the bill as the husband.  

I will double check that I've already looked at that one though.  Thank you.


Yes, that is the James Mockler Elder, I've traced him back through the censuses to his birth in Wales

8
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Stuck at James Mockler/Jimmy Dee
« on: Thursday 04 February 10 17:03 GMT (UK)  »
James Mockler the Elder was 42

James Mockler junior was born in Stockton on Tees, Durham - They've checked their records for me, I've also checked all the registry offices that surround that area

9
Family History Beginners Board / Stuck at James Mockler/Jimmy Dee
« on: Thursday 04 February 10 16:54 GMT (UK)  »
I'm really stuck with a member of my husbands family. 

The family story goes that he was brought up as Jimmy Dee and only, when he was about to marry, he looked at his birth certificate and found out that he was actually a James Mockler and used that name from then on. 

This last bit can't be true, my research so far:

    Birth
    [li]Have spoken to the 3 registry offices that could have dealt with his birth, none have a James Mockler registered as being born in the years around his birth date (approximately 1908).  [/li]
    [li]A family bible was discovered and gave a date of birth of 14th July 1909, a request was made to the registry offices again and one James born on that day was found - the father was listed and WASN'T his father (another James Mockler) so this has been initially dismissed.  The registrar wouldn't give me the name unless I stumped up cash[/li]
    [/list]

      1911 Census
      [li]Listed as 3 years old and living with his Father (James Mockler, a lodger), his Aunt (Catherine Dee nee Mockler) and her husband James Dee[/li]
      [li]We assume that if he did go by the name Jimmy Dee it would have been that his father left him to be brought up by Aunt but this can't be confirmed until the next census so it's just an idea [/li]
      [/list]

        Marriage
        [li]Obtained Marriage Certificate - he is listed as James Mockler, gives no indication as to date of birth[/li]
        [/list]


          Death
          [li]Obtained Death Certificate - he is listed as James Mockler, states he was 50 at time of death (3rd Feb 1958)[/li]
          [/list]

          My problem
          I need to determine his birth properly but I've not got anything to go on or have I?  I'm hoping someone here can point me in the right direction as the next place to look.  He obviously wasn't born a James Mockler so I'm guessing he'd have been registered under the mothers name and then at some point found himself living with his father.
          He could have officially changed his name to James Mockler - can I get hold of deed poll records?

          Please someone help, he's keeping me up at night!



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