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Messages - BushInn1746

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1
Family History Beginners Board / Re: HOW DO I PROVE CONNECTION? George Brown
« on: Wednesday 21 February 18 23:12 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Janice

For me there are too many "About"s in your question ...

"Birth 5 JUN 1881 OR ABT 1882 • Leamington Warwickshire England "

and 1881 with a common and popular surname like BROWN and I wonder (like the previous reply) if you have ALL the General Register Office (GRO) CIVIL CERTIFICATES which go back to 1837 in England and Wales, from our General Register Office (either Certified Copies posted or the official pdfs of the copies), AND with the ALL the images of your family in the England and Wales CENSUS SHEETS as you work backward?

Provided there is/are no illegitimate births and the Census is complete for the areas of your Ancestors, then you should generally know your Ancestors in England as you work backward, using the official Certificates along with England & Wales Census Sheets (every 10 years from 1911 or when they appear, back to 1841).

Hopefully, you have your official copy in Australia of where your known English Ancestor was definitely born, the birth date and birth place, perhaps Mother's nee surname, in the UK? Then applying for the correct Birth Certificate, which should confirm the birth date, the nee surname and hopefully then give the Father's full name.

The best way to do it, is to confirm every step, or stage backward!

My Father knew his Father's, Mother's and Grandfather's full names and wife's first name, so I applied for my Great Grandfather's Death & Marriage Certificates (and he was born about 1884 -/+ 1 year), but not quite early enough, to get backward to the first 1881 Census, (available when I started).

I had to chance, applying for my Gt. Grandfather's Birth Certificate based on Death Certificate age and then cross check the suspected married parents with Local Authority (L.A.) Registers and Rates Books, following the family back and forth each year over two adjoining counties, for about 30 years and when my known Great Grandfather came of age he appeared with his parents AND matched or overlapped with possible older Brothers and Sisters still at home, in the suspected family.

I could now identify my suspected family in the 1881 Census, despite my Gt. Grandfather not being born until 1884 and double check the others in the house who had come of age in the L.A. Books, were his older Brothers and Sisters by applying for their pre 1881 Birth Certificates.

Then I decided to trace and attempt to contact a known Cousin of my Father's, who actually sent me a photocopy of an old 1875 Family Birth Certificate, so that was corroboration of the research..

It is a question of methodically working backward and occasionally forward, double checking with any other records.

Don't forget UK population was probably larger in our 19th Century Towns, compared with other places around the World and there could be numerous Browns in the same town or area too.

Once you get to Scotland, one place to get your Certificates is Scotlands People.

You may also find relatives in the Census, residing in the property, like Father, Mother Cousins, Grandchildren, Step children, or In-Laws, to the Head, so get every correct Census image, which all help to make your tree belt and braces if you apply for their Certificates.

Baptisms
My family above had about half of their six children baptised and the last ones were not. However, all six Births were Civil Registered.

Newspapers if Ancestors are in business (but not everyone pays for Birth, Marriage, or Death insertion in the Notices, or in Street Directories) and Wills, provided they left a Will and it went to Probate.

People are running off to do this DNA as though it is a golden panacea, but if a tree so far has just one error, or not confirmed, one can easily find themselves on the wrong line and your DNA may not help, or not help at all.

It is a question of working backward methodically, one step / one Certificate at a time, searching the GRO indexes (free BMD and GRO), applying for Certificates, cross referencing with the ALL available Census Images and Wills if any, Electoral Registers (to appear in earlier English Election Rolls you had to be a property owner to vote) etc. and ask do the Certificates match up with Census, if not, why not, does it say Widower or Widow on their Marriage, meaning previous marriage/s?

Mark

2

From Mary Ridsdale's death record in 1876 aged 82, looked for a birth c1794.

She is the daughter of William Hood.

The BT's are in a terrible condition but she was baptised 6 July 1794 in Walkington.

William Hood married Mary Twedle in 1791 Walkington.

CANNOT find baptisms for William Hood or John Hood both born c1760ish.

So possibly William and John were siblings.

Can any one spot William and his wife Mary in 1841 - both lived into the 1840's and were buried in Walkington.


Wm Hood 1766 living with daughter Sarah Agar in Walkington.  No Mary with them though.


According to Family Search (1841), William HOOD with the Agar family, was apparently living on the Walkington "Howden Fee" in the Registration District of Beverley.


Howden Fee
The greater part of the land belongs to the Bishop of Durham's manorial liberty of Howdenshire, and is called "the Manor of Howden Fee,” and the rest of the parish is in the manor of “Provost's Fee,” ...


The Howden Fee, was a Manor in Walkington, East Riding of Yorkshire, belonging to the Bishop of Durham's manorial liberty.

Mark

3
Hello

I am interested in any further information please, religious, family, property, background and if a Will exists, regarding William Hood of Bristol, a Corn Factor, dying at the Fish Ponds, Gloucestershire and buried 1821 aged 65, who was not a Quaker?

This thread is not for the Quaker section of Rootschat.

This is what I know so far about William Hood:-

Quakers Burial Note (not attached)

States:-
Not a Member

To Mary Thomas Grave-Maker.
The 26th Day of the 1st Month, 1821
Make a Grave on or before next First Day, in Friends'
Burying-Ground, at or near The Friers
and therin lay the Body of William Hood, of the Broad Wear
Peters Parish in the City of Bristol
Corn factor aged about sixty five Years
who died the Twenty fourth Day
of the First Month, One Thousand Eight Hundred and Twenty one
at the Fish Ponds in the County of Gloucester.


Signed Jeffery Wallis

The body of the above-mentioned was buried the Twenty Eighth
Day of the first Month, 1821

Witness George Thomas for Mary Thomas Grave-Maker.


[Friers spelt Friars in the Register]
[Broad Wear spelt Broad Weir in the Register]


Good Afternoon

This Administration is another William Hudd.

28th June 1821
Admin in the Goods of the within named Wm Hudd dec'ed was granted to Eliz'th Hudd his W'd & Relict at Bristol ...
Effects sworn under £1000.
[?] & Intestate died 10th Feb'y 1817

A declaration was made that the value of his effects would not exceed One thousand pounds, by The Mark of Elizabeth Hudd 28 June 1821

Appeared personally Elizabeth Hudd of the Parish of Saint George in the County of Gloucester Widow and made Oath that she is the Widow and Relict of William Hudd late of the Parish of Saint George in the County of Gloucester and Diocese of Bristol Yeoman deceased intestate, that she will faithfully administer his Goods Chattels and [?Credits] ...

Also there is a Bond set at Two Thousand Pounds and signed by Elizabeth Hudd Widow Ambrose Hudd Basketmaker and Thomas Haskins Woollen Draper all of the Parish of Saint George in the County of Gloucester. Relating to an Act of Lord King Charles the Second, intituled "An Act for the better settling of Intestates' Estates" ...

Interesting that Ambrose HUDD was a Basketmaker.

 -----------

My Sarah HOOD, nee Russell was a Basket Maker.

 -----------

This is not William Hood of Bristol, Corn Merchant, buried by the Quakers as Not in Membership.


Mark

4
Hi Claire

Thanks for that.

17th August 1778.
LONDON Diocese
Appeared personally John Hood and made Oath, that he is of Scarboro' in the County of York a Widower and intendeth to marry with Sarah Hammond of the Parish of Saint Giles in The Fields in the County of Middlesex a Widow.



Included Bloomsbury and other places
https://stgilesonline.org/history/


Mark

5
This John Spencer of Scarborough, Mariner, linked to Maudland Hood.

The Scarborough St Mary's Churchyard M.I. ...

Head Stone -
Sacred/
to the Memory of/
MARY the wife of/
JOHN SPENCER/
who departed this life/
August (?g) 18??/
aged (33 or 83) years.


I should of looked for year of this and an age, in the m/f Registers, whilst at Beverley, because the compiler has not tried to find the Register entry, possibly due to not having the year.

Due to OCR sometimes being poor and too many returns, if I had a year date, I could manually search the Death columns on the BNA.


Also, I  got the Will of Catherine Spencer, Wife of Scarborough (from TNA), 1782
... my late Uncle Henry Rowe, late of Bloomsbury Square, London, Esquire ...
... Wife of Robert Spencer of Scarborough in the county of York ...
... Mother in Law Mary Spencer ...
... my Son [?first name?] Paxton Spencer ...
... my Son Hutton Rowe Spencer ...
... my Sister Jane Rowe ...
... my Brother Anthony Rowe ...
... my Husband Robert Spencer ...

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D622184

I should like to find out if she had a residence in Scarborough.

Her children (named in the Will) and the one by whom she was pregnant were left £700 each too! Some of them appear at various places in England as adults, later.

Regards Mark

EDIT: Added a headstone M.I., from Scarborough 18??, is the corresponding Register entry online please? If I had her age confirmed as 83 and a year date, it might be worth me searching the deaths in the BNA manually.

Hello

This may not join the dots up with my George Hood, but might help tie up a Scarborough Mariner HOOD, with others?


Catherine Spencer (Wife) of Scarborough, PCC Will Proved 1782, linked to the ROWE family.


John HOOD, Widower, to Sarah HAMMOND, Widow
Regarding the 17th August 1778 (Bishop of London) Marriage Bond of John Hood of Scarboro' in the County of York Mariner, John Hood's Bondsman was John ROE.


Interesting that the Marriage Bondsman (London Bond) for John Hood, Widower, of Scarborough, Mariner, was recorded as John Roe?

I wonder if ROE and ROWE are the same family?

Mark

6
The fourth line down on "Where born" is supposedly the birthplace of my great grandmother. It has been indexed as "Manchester, Lancashire." She was a servant in this household. As far as I can tell from other records, she did not know her exact place of birth, as the only other place given never existed.



The other census I have is the: 1901 census

Annie Richards, age 25, domestic servant, birth place Hythe, Lancashire.


Could this be her with the Brett couple in 1881 at Hainault Road, Low Leyton Essex (District of West Ham), her Mother remarried?

1881
Annie Richards Step Daughter [to the Head], 5 yrs, Born, Manchester, Lancashire.

Got this off Family Search, so the transcription against image of the original and Household members need checking against the information you have already.

If this is the one? You should be able to get the Marriage Certificate (some are already scanned online with FH sites).

But you did speak of two children, one being a male?

Mark

7
Hello

There are others (unrelated) who claim their Birthplace as "Hythe Lancashire" in the Census, so we'll check one and see what Registration District is given.

1861 Census (info from FS)
Adam Bottom CASTLE, Son, age 6, Scholar, born Hythe, Lancashire.

Born about 1855. Bottom I believed was a transcription error and it is.

Looked up in Free BMD

Adam Cottam CASTLE, born 1854 in the Registration District of STOCKPORT.

https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/stockport.html

STOCKPORT Registration District spans LANCASHIRE and CHESHIRE.

Mark

8
The fourth line down on "Where born" is supposedly the birthplace of my great grandmother. It has been indexed as "Manchester, Lancashire." She was a servant in this household. As far as I can tell from other records, she did not know her exact place of birth, as the only other place given never existed.



The other census I have is the: 1901 census

Annie Richards, age 25, domestic servant, birth place Hythe, Lancashire.


Hello

There are clearly commas (ditto marks) under both "Do" [ditto]. The marks are not struck through. Also, when doing these marks a line is sometimes placed either side of ditto marks. I don't see this as being struck out, but as ditto, or as above.

I would be inclined to check large scale 19th Century maps of Manchester and Lancashire, to see if there was a local place, or area, called or known as Hythe.

There was a HYDE in Cheshire, East of the old City of Manchester.

Only the First Edition 1", hopefully Hyde will display.
http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/maps/series?xCenter=3229203.77852&yCenter=3018941.32599&scale=63360&viewScale=181417.4208&mapLayer=nineteenth&subLayer=first_edition&title=Ordnance%20Survey%20and%20Ordnance%20Survey%20of%20Scotland%20First%20Series&download=true

The Census Enumerator calls, the person says, or spells it as 'Hythe', the Enumerator says Kent, the person says "no near Manchester", the Enumerator puts down Manchester, Lancashire.

If no local place of Hythe in Lancashire can be found, then I wondering if it is HYDE which became part of Greater Manchester and Greater Manchester tends to be considered as Lancashire, but some of these places were historically Cheshire.

I have wondered and felt that the boundaries of Cheshire, Lancashire and the old City of Manchester and its surrounding villages, tends to be a bit vague in the minds of some people back then.

Mark

9

Maudland Hood

One of the witnesses at Maudland Hood's Wedding at Selby 27th November 1794 was Frances STEARS.
 ...

Frances Stears to Richard Yarwood 4th February 1796

For the Stears = Yarwood marriage Family Search are quoting Quaker references:-
RG 6/785 (TNA cat - says Yorkshire QUARTERLY Meeting - Marriages Soc. of Friends' Registers)
and
RG 6/857 (TNA cat - says York - MONTHLY Meeting - Marriages Soc. of Friends Registers).


Frances Yarwood, aged 83, is recorded as a Quaker at death, Hull.

 --------

Maudland Hood's Father was John Hood of Selby, Mariner (late of Scarborough, where Maudland Hood's birth and Baptism dates are recorded - St Mary's).



Hello

Maudland HOOD & Charles TURNER's 1794 Wedding

Frances STEARS, a Quaker, was at Maudland HOOD's 1794 CHURCH Wedding and signing the register as a witness, so I am wondering if Frances STEARS or a STEARS was related to either HOOD or TURNER?

Seems quite unusual, as Quakers couldn't marry in a Church or by a Priest (they would be disowned).


1st of 1st mo. 1790 [1st January]
I have got hold of the York area Quaker Families (which include Selby) and before 1790 there were several Quaker STEARS families locally Headed by:-

Mary STEARS Wife of Samuel STEARS, Linen Draper of Castlegate, York and also
two Thomas STEARS both married to a Mary, one Thomas Stears a Husbandman at Drax, the other Thomas Stears a Shopkeeper at Selby.

Cert Rec'd 1795 - also Morley STEARS, Miller, residing at Heslington Field.

Quakers were absolutely forbidden to marry at a Church Service, so I am surprised at Frances signing the Register and wondering if Frances and the STEARS were related to HOOD or TURNER marrying in 1794?

Mark

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