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Messages - rockhopper

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1
Midlothian / Re: Broomfield
« on: Monday 03 October 22 06:23 BST (UK)  »
This is my assessment -
Richard Broomfield or Bromfield
1790–1825
BIRTH 16 FEB 1790 • Greenlaw, Berwickshire, Scotland
DEATH 4 DEC 1825 • St Marys Wynd, Royal Mile, Canongate, Midlothian, Scotland.
Catharine Stevenson
1793–1830
BIRTH 6 JUL 1793 • Canongate, Edinburgh, Scotland
DEATH 10 FEB 1830 • Infirmary, Canongate (Holyrood), Edinburgh, Scotland
John Broomfield
1824–1885
BIRTH C1824 • Edinburgh, Midlothian
DEATH 13 AUG 1885 • 59 Wellington Street, Collingwood, Victoria, Australia.

2
Midlothian / Re: Broomfield
« on: Monday 03 October 22 06:10 BST (UK)  »
Scotland - Censuses -
* 1841 a Broomfield Household with Bakers as Occupations - is listed at 7 West Newington, Newington, St Cuthberts, Midlothian - Adam Broomfield 58 a Baker (born outside the County); James Broomfield 26 a Baker, Journeyman; John Broomfield 18 a Baker Apprentice, born c1823 St Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian; James Broomfield 15; Jane Broomfield 47 and Agnes Broomfield 16. Two questions arise - 1. Is this possibly John Broomfield born c1823/1824 and not in 1829? 2. Is James Broomfield 26 an older brother to John Broomfield c1823/1824?
* In 1851 at Sibbald Place, St Cuthberts, Midlothian - Adam Broomfield 69 Retired Baker; James Broomfield 24 a Mercantile Clerk and Agnes Broomfield 27 Housekeeper (part of the family from the 1841 Census).
* While in 1851 at 73 Pleasance Street, Barony of Canongate, St Cuthberts, Midlothian there are two people - John Broomfield 27, Head a Baker Unmarried, born in Edinburgh, Barony of Canongate, Midlothian - employing 2 Men. (Once again - is this possibly John Broomfield born c1823/1824 and not 1829?) and his sister Elizabeth Broomfield 23 Unmarried born Edinburgh, Barony of Canongate, Midlothian (this throws things out as Elizabeth Broomfield would have been born c1828). However a person's age as recorded in these Censuses is only approximate, and Elizabeth may have been say 25. A conclusion I could draw [in the absence of birth or baptism records which remain elusive] is that John Broomfield was more likely born c1824 and not 1829.

3
Midlothian / Re: Broomfield
« on: Monday 03 October 22 06:07 BST (UK)  »
The Sydney Morning Herald of 28th November 1855 reports that ' "The Waterloo" sailed from Plymouth on 14th August and arrived in Sydney on 27th November, 1855.' The Waterloo was a Duncan Dunbar ship, possibly built in Sunderland. I think that there is a very strong likelihood that John Broomfield from Edinburgh was the Mr Broomfield a passenger on this voyage. John Broomfield as an Immigrant does not appear in the State Records of New South Wales or PRO VIC. I wonder why his arrival was missed?

John Broomfield died on 13th August, 1885 at 59 Wellington Street, Collingwood and on his Death Certificate it states that he was in Victoria for 30 years which would make it 1855. On this Certificate John's age is given as 56 and his parents are recorded as Richard Broomfield a Baker and Catherine (Stevenson) Broomfield.

Within a very short period (days rather than weeks) John moved on quite possibly to Buninyong before or at the same time that he settled in Ballarat. A Crown Grant's reference shows that in 1855 a John Broomfield was granted land in Buninyong - Por 22, Lot 31 No 38261 'the Grant was made on 6th December, 1855 to a John Broomfield 20a 3r 26p, at Buninyong' [Crown Land Deeds - PRO VIC land records]. Response from the Buninyong and District Historical Society on 20th January, 2012 "I checked our records and the only reference I found was in the 1856 Electoral Roll for John Bromfield, farmer, Mount Buninyong. He would have been one of the very early purchases of land in that very beautiful and fertile area near Mount Buninyong. It would appear he soon sold the land, because his name does not appear in any other directories or rate records in Buninyong."

4
Roxburghshire / Re: Guild / burgess records for Jedburgh
« on: Thursday 21 July 22 05:58 BST (UK)  »
Gabriel Newton 1694 may have had been a Deacon of the Tailors until the early 1740’s

5
Roxburghshire / Re: Guild / burgess records for Jedburgh
« on: Thursday 21 July 22 04:36 BST (UK)  »
Gabriel Newton born 1694 was the person of that name who I think was Deacon of the Taylors and Council Deacon in 1736. He is in my direct Ancestry. I have found no family connection so far with him and William Rae.

6
Roxburghshire / Re: Jedburgh - Douglas Baptisms
« on: Sunday 05 December 21 00:25 GMT (UK)  »
John Douglas 1759 was apprenticed to John McDonald, Master Watchmaker, Inverness for 7 years from 10 March, 1772. At the same time (10 March,1772) it was written that Alexander Douglas was apprenticed to John McDonald for 7 years from 12 June, 1769. 5 pounds for Alexander Douglas. Were John Douglas and Alexander Douglas closely related?
On 30 January 1793 Joseph Ellcot was an Apprentice Clockmaker with John Douglas 1759 in Jedburgh. 2 pounds premium paid. [British Clockmakers ad Watchmakers Appprentice Records 1710 – 1810 by Dennis Moore – Ashbourne Derbyshire: Mayfield Books 2003]. [Records also at the Guildhall, London].
On 31 October 1794 Thomas Hill was an Apprentice Clockmaker with John Douglas 1759 in Jedburgh. 3 years 6 months. 6 pounds, 6 shillings. [British Clockmakers ad Watchmakers Appprentice Records 1710 – 1810 by Dennis Moore – Ashbourne Derbyshire: Mayfield Books 2003]. [Records also at the Guildhall, London].

7
Roxburghshire / Re: Jedburgh - Douglas Baptisms
« on: Sunday 05 December 21 00:15 GMT (UK)  »
Even though a distant past we are still related to the Earls of Angus. George Douglas 1st Earl of Angus (Douglas line) and Margaret Douglas of Bonjedward were full brother and sister. Both were children of William Douglas, 1st Earl of Douglas and his Mistress, Margaret Stewart, Countess of Angus (in her own right).

Lord Lyon – 1952

Major Henry James Sholto Douglas, representative of Douglas of Timpendean presented a petition to the Lord Lyon praying for matriculation in his name of the Arms appropriate to him as representative of the family of Douglas of Timpendean.

On 2nd January 1952, the Lord Lyon King of Arms, found in fact:
1. That the petitioner's descent through Andrew Douglas, 1st of Timpendean, younger son of George Douglas of Bonjedward, is satisfactorily established from Margaret Douglas, 1st of Bonjedward, natural daughter of William, Earl of Douglas, by Margaret, Countess of Angus, in favour of whose natural son, George Douglas, the said Countess resigned the Earldom of Angus.
2. That the issue of the said Margaret Douglas, 1st of Bonjedward, by her husband, Thomas Johnson, bore the name and arms of Douglas of Bonjedward.
3. That John Douglas of Bonjedward, in 1450, bore arms differenced by a label of three points charged with as many mullets, on what ground is not known.
4. That in a painted armorial pedigree seen by Alexander Nisbet (System of Heraldry, Vol. I, p. 79) the descent of Douglas of Bonjedward was incorrectly deduced from a third son of the Earl of Angus, which may have been induced by the difference in the seal of 1450.
His Lordship found in law:

“That the petitioner is entitled to matriculate arms on ancient user before 1672 and with a difference congruent to descent illegitimately through Margaret Douglas of Bonjedward from William, Earl of Douglas, and Margaret, Countess of Angus…

The Lord Lyon, King of Arms (Innes of Learney) stated that…

Reverting to Andrew Douglas, 1st of Timpendean, third son of George Douglas of Bonjedward, in 1479, the pedigree of this House of Bonjedward is carried back to Margaret Douglas, illegitimate daughter of William Douglas, Earl of Douglas, by Margaret Stewart, Countess of Angus, eldest daughter and heiress of Thomas Stewart, Earl of Angus. By a Countess of Angus the Earl of Douglas had also an illegitimate son, George, upon whom the Countess settled, by due feudal procedure, the dignity and estates of the Earldom of Angus, which have since descended in the line of that George, who duly became Earl of Angus, which line, following the events of 1455 and a grant of the forfeited duthus, Douglasdale, was taken to have become chief by settlement and came to be recognised, and bore arms, as chief of the name of Douglas.

The position of Margaret Douglas, the Earl of Douglas's illegitimate daughter by Margaret, Countess of Angus, is different, because no step was taken, as in the case of her brother, George, to bring her in as an heir of tailzie even to the Angus succession, and accordingly she remains in the status of the Earl's natural daughter, but her children took or bore the name of Douglas and, as we see, have done so for five and a half centuries. Her husband appears as Thomas filio Johannis, and by this person Margaret Douglas was mother of John Douglas of Bonjedward, ancestor of the Bonjedward and Timpendean line above mentioned. There is nothing to say who Thomas and his father, John, were. They may have been Douglasses, early cadets of the main line of Douglas, but on the other hand, the presence of a saltire (a diagonal cross – by me) in chief in the arms in one seal of Douglas of Bonjedward and Timpendean suggests that Filio Johannis was a latinisation of Johnston.

Anyway, I do not consider it necessary to investigate the origins of Margaret's husband further, since there is no doubt about the foundation of the house originating in Margaret herself and her grant of the lands of Bonjedward in 1404. There is evidence of use of the arms by members of the family prior to 1672, first in the person of John Douglas of Bonjedward, 1450, who bore the paternal coat of arms with a label of three points gules charged with three mullets argent for difference. This suggests to me that Margaret and John sought to hold themselves out as the next line in “remainder” to the Angus inheritance after issue of her father, Earl George (cf. also Nisbet's System of Heraldry, p. 79). (Margaret's father was Earl William - by me). The painting of the genealogical tree of the House of Douglas to which he refers shows that an effort was there made to deduce Bonjedward legitimately from a third son of Angus. In the light of modern knowledge this is evidently incorrect, and it probably just shows the result of the self-assumed label difference on the painter of the pedigree. That is what correct differencing by the Lord Lyon is to guard against…”

Any theories that Margaret Douglas and the Bonjedward line commenced from any of the Earls of Angus are incorrect suppositions. (by me).

8
Roxburghshire / Re: Jedburgh - Douglas Baptisms
« on: Saturday 04 December 21 06:32 GMT (UK)  »
Yes, and thanks. Those Memoirs are accessible online but I may buy them too. Such a good historical resource. Every now and then I look for Marshall and Gladstanes - the latter for us which one? Don’t forget that we are connected to James VI of Scotland and I of England through the line of Archibald Douglas, 6th Earl of Angus. My ancestry from James 1669 a Gardener and Burgess of Jedburgh, is through George 1720 also a Gardener and George’s son John 1759 who was a Master Clock Maker in Jedburgh in the late 1700’s. John Douglas and his wife Mary Newton/Nuton moved to Galston, Ayrshire in about 1800 so that he could work for the Campbell ‘Earl of Loudoun’ (on Clocks). The Halyburtons connect us to lots of interesting history. In fact we have more than one line of Halyburtons in common with the Sir Walter Scott - Author etc.

9
Roxburghshire / Re: Jedburgh - Douglas Baptisms
« on: Thursday 02 December 21 22:06 GMT (UK)  »
Hi - that all works out. It was probably info which I provided to the Douglas Archives. Sir Walter Scott was from the same Haliburton family   :)

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