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Messages - Hemmum

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1
Bedfordshire / Re: John Cave one christening in two parishes?
« on: Tuesday 08 December 15 21:15 GMT (UK)  »
[  I know that I would certainly require confirmation from another source.

Absolutely which is why we are so lucky to have John who visits Bedford RO to find such valuable information.

2
Bedfordshire / Re: John Cave one christenting in two parishes?
« on: Tuesday 08 December 15 16:47 GMT (UK)  »
.

3
Bedfordshire / Re: John Cave one christenting in two parishes?
« on: Tuesday 08 December 15 16:45 GMT (UK)  »
No Kite flying David
The marriage was kindly given to me by John in his post on 1st December
"Not that easy David.... the 22 Feb 1746/47 marriage of William Cave to Elizabeth Pickerin at Biddenham says that they were 'both of Stagsden'.....

No Cave baptisms at Stagsden prior to 1807; Marriages we have....
10 Oct 1783 William Cave to Jane Handscome
17 Sep 1798 James Cave to Mary Pickering
Burials; William Cave labourer on 21 May 1784 & John Caves on 10 Feb 1801

There's a baptism at Stagsden on 3 Nov 1723 of Elizabeth daughter of John & Elizabeth Pickering; she'd be 23 if it's her who married in 1746/47"



4
Bedfordshire / Re: John Cave one christenting in two parishes?
« on: Monday 07 December 15 13:42 GMT (UK)  »
Thank  you all for your help and particularly to John for all the information from Stagsden ect. I wonder if you mind if I ask your guidance/help for a couple of ideas I have ‘running around.

I was particularly drawn to look at James Cave marriage to Mary Pickering as, potentially, his mother Elizabeth was nee Pickering.

William Cave and Elizabeth Pickering married 1746/47 in Biddenham both of Stagsden
William was baptised in 1721 at Biddenham, Elizabeth Pickering baptised in 1723 at Stagsden
Both William and Elizabeth were buried in Wotton in 1786 and 1787 (where their children were christened)

William and Elizabeth Cave had three sons, two who may have married in Stagsden;
(My) John baptised 1748 in Wootton married about 1769 to Mary Unknown
William baptised 1761 in Wootton married 1783 to Jane Handscome (he was buried the next year in Stagsden).
I have not found any children, burial or remarriage for Jane.

William and Elizabeth’s youngest son James Cave was baptised 1763 in Woottton.
Did James marry in Sept 1798 Stagsden to Mary Pickering? Was she related to his mother Elizabeth nee Pickering?

I have not found any children for James and Mary but did find a Army Pension record for James Caves born 1765 in Wooton, Bedford, which could link Wootton to Stagsden.
James Caves by trade a Labourer aged 33 served 13 years 3 months. Discharged at London 19 May 1798. James Caves made his mark (X) (attested 1785 aged 19/20)
James may have served a second period of 51 days from 25 Dec 1802 to 14 Feb 1803 was 51 in Royal Garrison Battalion before being discharged as unfit for service.  (According to TNA there appears to be a third record for James which is not on FindMyPast which they are investigating)

There is a burial in Stagsden  in 1801 for John Caves no age given on NBI which may have been for an unbaptised son but also may have been for his brother John  baptised in 1748 at Wotton which would ’muddy my puddle’.  I have also found a reference to a Joseph Cave registering his home in Wooton as a baptist meeting house perhaps as early as 1826 which raises the MC problem!

If James Caves left the army in May 1798 and returned home he may have married later that year to Mary Pickering (a family member?).
Mary Pickering may have been buried as Mary CAVES Birth year 1776 Age 48 Buried 2 Sep 1824 at Stagsden
James does not seem to be buried at Stagsden but there is a Cave burial at Goldington, Beds
James CAVES born 1761 age 64 was buried 1 May 1825 at St Mary the Virgin Goldington, Beds
There are no Caves in Goldington but there were a couple of Mary Pickerings!






5
Armed Forces / Re: Chelsea Pensioner
« on: Thursday 03 December 15 15:03 GMT (UK)  »
Ken you mentioned a third record.
I found this at National Archives but I cannot find it on FindMyPast search.
As there is not a Parish or place in Bedfordshire named 'Weston' I wonder if it should read Wotton (James Caves Parish). Does this look like the same man to you?

WO 121/192/163 1786-1814
JAMES KEAVES alias JAMES CAVES
Born WESTON, Bedfordshire
Served in 3rd Royal Veteran Battalion; 3rd Foot Guards; 18th Foot Regiment
Discharged aged 53 after 22 years 3 months of service
Covering dates give year of enlistment to year of discharge.
See film image 483

6
Armed Forces / Re: Chelsea Pensioner
« on: Thursday 03 December 15 14:30 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Ken
Thank you for all the information which has given me a much clearer idea of his service. I found the two entries I mentioned on FindMyPast as I have been researching the Cave/Caves family and James (although not in my direct line) may help link two Bedfordshire parishes and indicate the movement of the family. Any other idea would be welcome.

7
Armed Forces / Chelsea Pensioner
« on: Thursday 03 December 15 11:30 GMT (UK)  »
Can anyone please shed any light on two records I have found for James Caves.?
As both James Caves served in the same regiment and for similar periods I assume they are for the same man although it seems strange, to me, that someone who is discharged for almost daily epileptic fits would be fit again.

As in the second record James is described as an ‘out pensioner’ I wonder if he married back in Bedfordshire after his first discharge.

Before the second discharge when James served a further 51 days was this service at the Chelsea Hospital?

Also is it possible to know how long a pension was paid (when James Caves died) and if a pensioner had any dependants?

I know very little about these records so any help or guidance would be appreciated
The two records roughly are;

James Caves Birth year 1765 Birth in parish Wootton, Bedford, Bedfordshire. England
Regiment Scots Guards. Discharged 19 May 1798. (attested 1784 aged 19/20)
James Caves by trade a Labourer aged 33 served 13 years 3 months is subject to Epileptic fits  which come on every other night and renders him unfit for service. Discharged at London 19 May 1798 by Cavendish Liston Lt Gl Comd of 3rd Regt of Foot.
Next page Reads . The Duke of Argyll Third Regiment of Foot Guard.  Receipt for pay clothing etc signed by James Caves who made his mark (X)
WO121 Box 0032 . Chelsea Pensioners discharge documents 1760-1887

There is also a record of James Caves Discharged 14 Feb 1803  of Royal Garrison Battalions, no age or place of birth given.
‘James Caves having been ordered by the Commissioners of Chelsea Hospital  to the said ??? Of Invalids commanded by Major General Murray 225 Dec 1802 after being discharged for 13 and ¾ years service in the Third Regiment of Foot ?? Then commanded by the Duke of Argyll. Hath ser’d honestly in the above Regt for the space of fifty one days: But now being worn out and rendered unfit for any further Duty on Account of : the Inspection and Report of the Surgeon General as being found incapable of doing Garrison Duty he is Hereby Exempted from attendance upon any further obligation when out Pensioners may be called in.
He is hereby discharged the said Regt and recommended as a proper Object to partake of His Majesty’s Royal Bounty of Chelsea Hospital:…… to the 14 July 1803 inclusive. Receipt  Signed by the mark of James Cave’
Royal Garrison Battalions Document type Discharge Series WO121 Box 0156

8
Bedfordshire / Re: John Cave one christenting in two parishes?
« on: Monday 30 November 15 23:10 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you for your help. As suggested I have checked Free Reg and, as you say, the baptism of John Cave is only found at Wootton on FreeReg. What surprises me is that of 13 Cave christenings on batch P005001,  John Cave christened in 1776 is the only Cave/Caves on batch I039224. 

I have spent some time gleaning various resources and my notes are as follows;
Any comments or ‘missing bits’ would be appreciated.

Apart from John christened in 1776, his parents John and Mary Cave had perhaps two other children baptised in Wootton. Beds
Eliz CAVE d of John and Mary bap 8 Oct 1769 at St Mary Wootton Beds
Eliz Cave d of John and Mary BT entry buried 5 Sep 1772 at St Mary Wootton Beds.
Wm Cave s of Jn and Mary bap 7 Feb 1773 entry from Bishops transcripts at St Mary Wootton Beds.

I have not found a marriage for John and Mary about 1769 in Wootton .

I think John Cave Snr died
Jn Cave (Lab pauper) buried 31 May 1787 at St Mary Wootton Beds
John Cave’s widow Mary then remarried.

Mary Cave a widow married William Vaux a widower on 4 Nov 1788 at St Mary Wootton Beds. witness John Purser and Charles North. FreeReg  ? marriage not on IGI

Taking back the family one generation I wondered who John Cave Snr buried in 1787 at Wootton, the father of John Jnr bap 1776 Wootton/Marston, may have been?

Was John Cave Snr who was buried 1787 perhaps;
John Cave s of William and Elizabeth bap 30 Oct 1748 at Wootton by Bedford.

If John Cave Snr was baptised in 1748 in Wootton and married abt 1769 he would have been aged about 21.
If John Cave 1748-1787 Wootton was the son of William and Elizabeth when did his parents marry?

William and Elizabeth Cave had perhaps 7 children bapt between 1748-1763 in Wootton.
John Snr 1748 -1787 was their eldest child.

I have not found a marriage of William Cave and Elizabeth about 1748 in Wootton
but there is a suitable marriage in Biddenham.
William Cave married Eliz PICKERIN 22 Feb 1746 at Biddenham Bedford IGI M003761
Again with a conflicting entry on the IGI
William Cave married Elizabeth PICKERIN 22 Feb 1747 at Biddenham Bedford IGI I045869

Perhaps William Cave and Elizabeth married in Biddenham but lived and had their children christened in Wootton? There are no children for William and Elizabeth in Biddenham.

If William was from Biddenham perhaps his baptism was
William Cave bap 11 Jun 1721 s of John and Ann at Biddenham. Bedford
If William Cave bap in 1721 married Elizabeth Pickerin in 1746/47 he would have been aged  25/26.

William Cave 1721 parents John and Ann Cave had perhaps 4 children bapt in Biddenham, 1718-1728
Their first child Mary was baptised in 1718, William 1721, John 1724 and Ann in 1728.

I have not found a marriage for John and Ann Cave about 1718 in Biddenham or a burial for them.

These are my ‘Ramblings’ any idea??

9
Bedfordshire / Re: Help with Tempsford or Sandy address on 1939 Register
« on: Friday 27 November 15 14:10 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks for the code John - you are a star! Have just treated myself to an early Christmas present and renewed my lapsed subscription! Will probably get a square bottom now sitting on the computer!

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